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Yoo Sak
Posted - 2008.06.28 18:59:00 - [1]
 

Just heard from a friend that CCP took one of his ships without giving him any money for it, claiming it was built with minerals mined by bots. Thing is, he bought the ship on the MARKET.

He petitioned it, got a response that they would not give him anything sent it back and got the same answer.

HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? So if we buy something from market we have no guarantee that we will be allowed to keep the things?

And how are we supposed to know what ships to buy and what ships not to buy? There is no way anyone can be able to tell where the minerals the ship was built of came from.

If this is a policy that CCP intend to keep up the whole market system will become very strange.

Xparky
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:03:00 - [2]
 

When you buy a dreadnought for 5 isk from an isk seller it's kinda obvious what you're doing....

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:03:00 - [3]
 

Your friend.
He bought isks.
He lied to you about it.
That's how it's even possible.

Eran Laude
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:04:00 - [4]
 

Sounds to me like a macro miner, probably just had 100 bil stripped from him, being all whiny[TM] and having a cheap parting shot at CCP.

Kthxbai.

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:05:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Tamia Clant on 28/06/2008 19:05:19
Another of these threads, awesome!

Let me give you a summary of what's going to happen:

1 - A bunch of people are going to come here and tell you your "friend" bought ISK
2 - Your friend will then attempt to refute those claims, and accuse CCP of scamming him
3 - A GM will then post in this thread, showing proof that your friend has in fact been involved in activities that violate the EULA
4 - Your friend will stop posting
5 - ???
6 - Profit!

EDIT: Damn, I was too late, part 1 has begun already.Razz

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:06:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Amastat on 28/06/2008 19:06:30
Yea - that is unfortunate. CCP doesn't really... to put it simply, give a crap - if your friend was unaware of what he was buying. You can't really tell unfortunately, no way to see it coming... it needs to be worked on, it's simply not fair that this keeps happening to people, and they have no way to avoid it - it just comes out of nowhere.

The core blame is the damned RMT'ers, but the policy CCP has on it is real bogus too.

CCP did a investigation I am sure, they tracked the transaction of the illegal ISK, and found out where the ISK went - and removed it from the game. Unfortunately, people like your friend, are considered collateral damage, under CCP's policy on this.

Or your friend is just lying to you about it - that happens just as often with these stories. Though, lying about it wouldn't do any good - it won't change anything.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:30:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tamia Clant
Edited by: Tamia Clant on 28/06/2008 19:05:19
Another of these threads, awesome!

Let me give you a summary of what's going to happen:

1 - A bunch of people are going to come here and tell you your "friend" bought ISK
2 - Your friend will then attempt to refute those claims, and accuse CCP of scamming him
3 - A GM will then post in this thread, showing proof that your friend has in fact been involved in activities that violate the EULA
4 - Your friend will stop posting
5 - ???
6 - Profit!

EDIT: Damn, I was too late, part 1 has begun already.Razz



Shocked

How dou you knoe before hapend?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:33:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

Shocked

How dou you knoe before hapend?


History repeats itself because people never learn....

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:34:00 - [9]
 

I saw ...

Pardack
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:39:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Edited by: Tamia Clant on 28/06/2008 19:05:19
Another of these threads, awesome!

Let me give you a summary of what's going to happen:

1 - A bunch of people are going to come here and tell you your "friend" bought ISK
2 - Your friend will then attempt to refute those claims, and accuse CCP of scamming him
3 - A GM will then post in this thread, showing proof that your friend has in fact been involved in activities that violate the EULA
4 - Your friend will stop posting
5 - ???
6 - Profit!

EDIT: Damn, I was too late, part 1 has begun already.Razz

Shocked

How dou you knoe before hapend?



I'll take either of Jenny's previous incarnations over this driveling pile of excrement anyday.

I also semi-agree with what Tamia is saying, there's lots of complaining going on and a majority of the time it's the player's fault.

The GMs on the other hand don't exactly have the best record with regards to consistency or thoroughness.

It could go either way BUT judging from the tone and nature of the OP, I do agree with the former explanation.


Yoo Sak
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:41:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Yoo Sak on 28/06/2008 19:42:31
No, the point is. He bought a BS off of MARKET, then CCP took it.

All this crap about your friend did this and that is beside the point. You can have as many theories as you want, but what happened is that. Nothing else.

He bought it from the market, CCP took his ship, and refuses to give him anything for it. How is that even possible? And don't say it isn't, because it happened.

Edit: It was a Battleship, and the amount was not like 5 isk or anything. It was about the same amount as all the other ships, so there was no way of telling..

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:45:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 28/06/2008 19:45:43
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 28/06/2008 19:45:33
Originally by: Yoo Sak
Edited by: Yoo Sak on 28/06/2008 19:42:31
No, the point is. He bought a BS off of MARKET, then CCP took it.

All this crap about your friend did this and that is beside the point. You can have as many theories as you want, but what happened is that. Nothing else.

He bought it from the market, CCP took his ship, and refuses to give him anything for it. How is that even possible? And don't say it isn't, because it happened.

Edit: It was a Battleship, and the amount was not like 5 isk or anything. It was about the same amount as all the other ships, so there was no way of telling..


And why should I belive you?

If you got a problem, take it up with CCP, don't whine in the forums about it, that does not solve anything.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:46:00 - [13]
 

posting in an obvious whine alt thread

It'a hilarious how its always the "friend" that comes to the forum to whine with an anonymus alt

and of course this alts name is pronounced "you suck" so it is kind of a dead give away Laughing

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Yoo Sak
No, the point is. He bought a BS off of MARKET, then CCP took it.

All this crap about your friend did this and that is beside the point. You can have as many theories as you want, but what happened is that. Nothing else.

He bought it from the market, CCP took his ship, and refuses to give him anything for it. How is that even possible? And don't say it isn't, because it happened.

Edit: It was a Battleship, and the amount was not like 5 isk or anything. It was about the same amount as all the other ships, so there was no way of telling..


Really, you're not doing yourself or your friend any favour by taking this to the forums. I've never heard of a GM removing a ship for such a reason, I'm pretty sure they only remove isk.
Anyway, I'll say just two things:

1) Your friend most likely is lying to you.
2) Your friend should ask for his petition to be escalated.

Doonoo Boonoo
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:48:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 28/06/2008 19:48:38
nm


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Yoo Sak

No, the point is. He bought a BS off of MARKET, then CCP took it.


At what price? If it was way lower than going price it can easily be an attempt to clean isk.

Or he wasp paying with isk from macroed minerals as your first post seem to hint.


Originally by: Yoo Sak

All this crap about your friend did this and that is beside the point. You can have as many theories as you want, but what happened is that. Nothing else.

He bought it from the market, CCP took his ship, and refuses to give him anything for it. How is that even possible? And don't say it isn't, because it happened.

Edit: It was a Battleship, and the amount was not like 5 isk or anything. It was about the same amount as all the other ships, so there was no way of telling..


The point is: how the isk he used were generated?

If all his kosher he can escalate the petition and get the ship back. There is a limited tendency by GM to delete all items linked to macro activity, but if the friend (why it is always a friend posting and almost never the actual person? Because for the friend is more easy to deny knowing some key point?) has got the isk legitimatly and the ship had a reasonable price he will get it back.

Caina Staras
Caldari
Caldari Interstellar Industrial Corps
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:48:00 - [17]
 

CCP is far from reasonable in many of these cases, in all honesty. Its highly likely that your friend is lying and bought isk or something of this nature and is just attempting to get back at CCP.

However on the same side CCP nowhere in the EULA (as far as i know i havent read it lately and may have changed in recent patches) in no part states that they have the right to reclaim property in this manner and state the sole punishment for violation of the EULA as banning. They also in no form state the requirements for determining said violation or if they have any requirements at all. For all its known they can simply decide you bought isk with no evidnece at all and take action.

I guess this could be covered under the parts that state all of your isk etc is the property of CCP, and they can do what they want with it but that hardly makes it any less dodgy imo. I assume this is the only way they can enforce isk selling etc however as it would require them to actualy obtain credit card statements proving you actualy spent real money for the transfer of isk. The entire system is flawed simply because the legal system that its built upon is flawed.

So basicaly CCP can pretty much do whatever the hell they want and get away with it. the majority of laws are created to protect corporations not the common citizen or consumer. There are countless examples of large corporations bending laws and getting away with it simply because no one who cares has the money to engage in the long legal battles required to do anything about it.

Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:48:00 - [18]
 

The problem here is that most times people are going on the words of their friend - turns out their friend lied to them. So until said friend wants to come here himself and speak, nothing you say matters.

Yoo Sak
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:50:00 - [19]
 

There is no whining at all. I have nothing to gain from whining here, since I am not the one who lost the ship. And wether you believe me or not doesnt matter...

All Im saying is that this is what happened, and I cant imagine that anyone here thinks it is fair. Or am I mistaken?

And yes, it is an alt.. And yes, the name is Yoo Sak, which is gonna be so much fun when I know that being called primary is gonna sound great on the enemys TS.. But that is also beside the point.. :)

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:53:00 - [20]
 

So why doesn't your 'friend' come and say something? Last time I checked CCP doesn't cut off your forum posting rights for buying isk just your wallet.

Ko Shimin
Minmatar
Romanian Space Explorer
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:53:00 - [21]
 

Let me tell you a little story. I once got anice loot from a plex. A Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field II. Needed the cash asap and sold it to a contractor in Jita. At that time it went for 350-450 mil. I sold it for 300m. Some 4-5 months later I found my wallet 300m poorer on the account that the isk came from a known isk seller..
I petitioned and got back nothing.

From my point of view, CCP is greedy and their anti isk seller policy has changed into paranoia. I am pretty confident that the isk sellers, using mining bots and other ways of making isk to sell count for a significat part of our population. Banning them would not be profitable. But removing isk from buyers, not removing, reversing the trade, is a slap on the buyers hand, forcing him into gtc trade (that is no more an option since the 30 days gtc removal), while keeping the farmers ingame. The farmers get their isk back and probably sell it to another sucker, knowing that the isk will come back to them.
Out of curiousity, I went to several isk selling sites, and contacted them asking how my isk will be delivered if I purchase. All answered: wallet. Told them that by that method the GMs would remove it for sure from my wallet, and asked if Im put a contract, selling some crap item for 1bil, they would accept the contract? Answer was: wallet only. This only confirms to me that the isk sellers have no interest in delivering "safely" to you, as in the end, they will remain with their isk and your $$$.

And one more question i have for ccp: what are the GMs for? cause the only petitions they positively answer to are when stuck. From all my petitions, only the stuck related ones got a positive answer. You should change their job from GM to Economic Police..

EVE is a great game, but CCP greed and poor support/abusive GMs will ruin it slowly and surely..

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:53:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Yoo Sak
Just heard from a friend that CCP took one of his ships without giving him any money for it, claiming it was built with minerals mined by bots. Thing is, he bought the ship on the MARKET.

He petitioned it, got a response that they would not give him anything sent it back and got the same answer.

HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? So if we buy something from market we have no guarantee that we will be allowed to keep the things?

And how are we supposed to know what ships to buy and what ships not to buy? There is no way anyone can be able to tell where the minerals the ship was built of came from.

If this is a policy that CCP intend to keep up the whole market system will become very strange.


Quoting for posterity. And LOL. Always a "friend" and always "evil CCP."

Your "friend" lied, and "evil CCP" do not take stuff away bought from the market, unless it is a blatant thing, like Cruise Missile sold for 5 Billion ISK.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:58:00 - [23]
 

Get your friend to post here. It's always the firend (of a friend of a friend...) that had those encounters and some no name alt posting the threads.

1.) Friend buys BS from RMT site.
2.) RMTer tells friend to buy ship from the market at a certain station.
3.) RMTer gives back ISK
4.) GMs investigate, detect the laundry and delete the ship.

This is how something like your 'case' can happen.
But most likely you are just another troll being bored out of its mind, what's left of it anyways....

Ko Shimin
Minmatar
Romanian Space Explorer
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Yoo Sak
Just heard from a friend that CCP took one of his ships without giving him any money for it, claiming it was built with minerals mined by bots. Thing is, he bought the ship on the MARKET.

He petitioned it, got a response that they would not give him anything sent it back and got the same answer.

HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? So if we buy something from market we have no guarantee that we will be allowed to keep the things?

And how are we supposed to know what ships to buy and what ships not to buy? There is no way anyone can be able to tell where the minerals the ship was built of came from.

If this is a policy that CCP intend to keep up the whole market system will become very strange.


Quoting for posterity. And LOL. Always a "friend" and always "evil CCP."

Your "friend" lied, and "evil CCP" do not take stuff away bought from the market, unless it is a blatant thing, like Cruise Missile sold for 5 Billion ISK.


Well, CCP gives s**t about scammers, that's why we see so many scam contracts all around us. I agree that in most cases CCP is right and isk selling/buying is involved, but I am also confident that there is also collateral damage. I was one of such collateral damage..

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:02:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 28/06/2008 20:05:18
Yoo Sak, Jin Mei line. member of federal navy academy for 6 months and 12 days.
Never done standing or tutorial. And sec status 0.0

Frequent GTC trader:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=803081&page=1#2
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=803054&page=1#1
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=785311&page=1#2

Lets face it, buying isk for you aint a new thing.

Have a nice day...

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ko Shimin
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Yoo Sak
Just heard from a friend that CCP took one of his ships without giving him any money for it, claiming it was built with minerals mined by bots. Thing is, he bought the ship on the MARKET.

He petitioned it, got a response that they would not give him anything sent it back and got the same answer.

HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? So if we buy something from market we have no guarantee that we will be allowed to keep the things?

And how are we supposed to know what ships to buy and what ships not to buy? There is no way anyone can be able to tell where the minerals the ship was built of came from.

If this is a policy that CCP intend to keep up the whole market system will become very strange.


Quoting for posterity. And LOL. Always a "friend" and always "evil CCP."

Your "friend" lied, and "evil CCP" do not take stuff away bought from the market, unless it is a blatant thing, like Cruise Missile sold for 5 Billion ISK.


Well, CCP gives s**t about scammers, that's why we see so many scam contracts all around us. I agree that in most cases CCP is right and isk selling/buying is involved, but I am also confident that there is also collateral damage. I was one of such collateral damage..


Possible, have you tried escalating, giving wallet shots if available?

GM are humans so errors and collateral damage are possible, even if pretty rare.

Reversing the trade (you got your moduel back, BTW? that will explain why the isk were deleted) will not get back the isk to the isk seller, as the account is banned with all his isk.


Ko Shimin
Minmatar
Romanian Space Explorer
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:09:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Ko Shimin on 28/06/2008 20:10:57
I escalated to get the same answer..
Actually I escalated all my petitions, and all apart from the stuck ones did not end positive to me.
I am playing this game as I have no other option in this game genere. But as soon as another space mmo will appear, CCP will lose a great deal of subscribers.

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:12:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How dou you knoe before hapend?



WANT OLD JENNY BACK

Also, I call bull**** on the OP. GMs stated somewhere that they do not take items involved in RMT, they take the ISK.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:15:00 - [29]
 

Your "friend" is a liar and you are being naive.

The GMs do not work in the manner described by the OP.

Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.06.28 20:20:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Leviathan9 on 28/06/2008 20:20:36
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Edited by: Tamia Clant on 28/06/2008 19:05:19
Another of these threads, awesome!

Let me give you a summary of what's going to happen:

1 - A bunch of people are going to come here and tell you your "friend" bought ISK
2 - Your friend will then attempt to refute those claims, and accuse CCP of scamming him
3 - A GM will then post in this thread, showing proof that your friend has in fact been involved in activities that violate the EULA
4 - Your friend will stop posting
5 - ???
6 - Profit!

EDIT: Damn, I was too late, part 1 has begun already.Razz



Shocked

How dou you knoe before hapend?



How do you know before it happened?

Fixed..

*triple checks he spelt everything right..Razz*


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