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blankseplocked No killrights when someone salvages my wreck = reward with no risk.
 
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Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 15:59:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 27/06/2008 21:11:03
?

Whats up with that? If they loot a can i can pwn them. If they salvage a wreck i can't.

Is there some programing reason this isn't the same and its really hard to fix? (i'd find that hard to believe).
Is it intentional?

If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).

Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?

----------

edit: thanks for the clarification. This thread is now about discussing the ridiculous policy that wreck and their salvage is public domain while the loot inside of them is not.

Very Happy

Bleeshtar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:01:00 - [2]
 

Because according to CCP "wrecks belong to no one".

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:01:00 - [3]
 

Because CCP says salvage is not property, only things in cans are.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:01:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2008 16:01:25
Because it's not your wreck.
By the very definition of "salvage" it belongs to whoever finds it first.

Being able to ninja salvage without getting a criminal falg is entirely intentional and according to the game mechanics.

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:03:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?


Yeah you missed the 30 or so troll threads about this very subject a monthish ago where CCP said that wrecks belong to noone. Very Happy

Donkee Punch
Council of Human Urban Meatshield Paratroopers
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:04:00 - [6]
 

If you get a Rogue salvager.. target your wrecks and pop em right in the salvagers face.. Better that than have these little dipsticks steal you're hard earned salvage.


Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:06:00 - [7]
 

Take the name down, pass it on to your CEO along with a message decrying your outrage and demand satisfaction through war, problem solved. Oh he's in an NPC corporation, why they're even in this game is beyond me.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:09:00 - [8]
 

If you owned the salvage just like you own the wreck contents, then what would be the practical difference between loot and salvage? They have different rules so that gameplay is more complex. Otherwise salvage would just be an extra "bonus mission reward" and there's no reason to even have it in the game.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:09:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
Because CCP says salvage is not property, only things in cans are.


oh wow. so i'm guessing they ran into some weird bug trying to get the flag applied when programming salvaging.
Instead of making it work like it should they decided to make it a 'feature' and declare the wreck 'public domain'.

Laughing that has to be the silliest, most rediculous thing i've ever heard ccp.

CCP, did you hire a bunch of green behind the ears trial lawyers on board as game developers?? Sounds like instead of fixing an issue you gave up and made up some BS (wouldn't be the 1st time and probably wont be the last).

Xparky
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:12:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
one more spam thread will get you a warning.
- Thanks Hutch. "


\o/

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:13:00 - [11]
 

Your a n00b to trolling Nathaniel. You should have saved the 'omg CCP are a bunch of losers and can't progran a c-64 game' post for much later in the thread. Wink

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
If you owned the salvage just like you own the wreck contents, then what would be the practical difference between loot and salvage? They have different rules so that gameplay is more complex. Otherwise salvage would just be an extra "bonus mission reward" and there's no reason to even have it in the game.


So finding a 'practical difference' is more important than maintaining some trace of risk vs reward in ppl that continue to exploit the invulnerability of newb corps?

Cpt Hound
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:13:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Originally by: Haakelen
Because CCP says salvage is not property, only things in cans are.


oh wow. so i'm guessing they ran into some weird bug trying to get the flag applied when programming salvaging.
Instead of making it work like it should they decided to make it a 'feature' and declare the wreck 'public domain'.

Laughing that has to be the silliest, most rediculous thing i've ever heard ccp.

CCP, did you hire a bunch of green behind the ears trial lawyers on board as game developers?? Sounds like instead of fixing an issue you gave up and made up some BS (wouldn't be the 1st time and probably wont be the last).



Awww. Look people, there is someone with no clue what so ever.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tyrantus
Your a n00b to trolling Nathaniel. You should have saved the 'omg CCP are a bunch of losers and can't progran a c-64 game' post for much later in the thread. Wink


Originally by: Cpt Hound

Awww. Look people, there is someone with no clue what so ever.


So i'm going to guess the 1st one has a ninja salvage alt and the 2nd actually is one. Hey! Maybe the same person?

Quit changing the subject to me. I doubt it was actually a programming issue but there is 2 possiblities, its an intended mechanic or a unexpected 'feature'

Isn't risk vs reward kinda the foundation of our economy in this game? Oh right, i dont have a clue Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:20:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2008 16:21:29
Originally by: Cpt Hound
Awww. Look people, there is someone with no clue what so ever.
So cuuuuuute! Very Happy
Originally by: Donkee Punch
Better that than have these little dipsticks steal you're hard earned salvage.
Hard-earned?! If your salvage is hard to earn, you're doing it wrong. I might agree that it's hard-earned if he steals the salvage of your newly killed Titan or Mom, but if he does, you're in zero- or lowsec, and you're free to kill him anyway, so it's a moot point
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
I doubt it was actually a programming issue but there is 2 possiblities, its an intended mechanic or a unexpected 'feature'
…and you've been given the answer: it's an intended mechanic. Always has been, always will be – so sayeth the devs.

Xparky
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:21:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: "Nathanial Victor"

If you think about it, ppl that


run missions


in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).




Fixed that for you.

Zed'Nar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:22:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Zed''Nar on 27/06/2008 16:22:18
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=508034&page=9#262

Quote:

Posted - 2008.02.05 20:11:00 - [262]

This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

- GM Faolchu

Cricketz
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:23:00 - [18]
 

So you leave your space trash wreck floating around and want kill rights on the trash man thats cleaning up the galaxy? Salvage is not broken, works just as it should.

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:23:00 - [19]
 

Ninja salvaging is an intended profession, just like corp thieves or scammers. Whining about it is not going to change it, and calling the devs incompetent is surely not going to help either.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Zed'Nar
Edited by: Zed''Nar on 27/06/2008 16:22:18
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=508034&page=9#262

Quote:

Posted - 2008.02.05 20:11:00 - [262]

This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

- GM Faolchu



interesting. thanks for the link. for the record i did miss all this back when everyone else was talking about it (obviously)

still seems pretty debatable. Looking at the above quote it seems the root of the issue is that, for some ppl, eve ISN'T a harsh place (see also; the character that cropped my post up to say high sec mission runners have no risk vs reward). I'd have to say thats a fairly valid point, but off topic (and there is the shread of a chance you loose your connection while some npc frig has you scrambled).

"Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up."

Yeah, if looting someones wreck also makes them money they will do that too! (and good for them). Doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to shoot them. Its what makes eve EvE

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Originally by: Tyrantus
Your a n00b to trolling Nathaniel. You should have saved the 'omg CCP are a bunch of losers and can't progran a c-64 game' post for much later in the thread. Wink


Originally by: Cpt Hound

Awww. Look people, there is someone with no clue what so ever.


So i'm going to guess the 1st one has a ninja salvage alt and the 2nd actually is one. Hey! Maybe the same person?


No I'm trying to help you and the 2nd guy was a dolt for letting himself get trolled. What I was trying to say is that you could have milked the content in the OP for at least 4 or 5 pages without having to do anyting but regurgitate you previous responces. But by dropping the 'CCP are teh incompetant' line in the middle of the first page you risk early thread burnout. Pace yourself man and LRN2TROLL. Wink

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:39:00 - [22]
 

Have any of you ever run into a ninja who was a noobcorp alt? Just yesterday somebody came into ninja chat saying he was an anonymous alt and wanted us to teach him ninja salvage, and we all LOL'd. He was like "but I'm the CEO of a corp, I don't wanna be wardecked!" and we were like "steal with your main". Ninjas are not noobcorp alts, this is how we differ from mission running ISK farmers.

And don't presume to tell me how the mission runner operates. I have been in a lot more different people's missions than you have.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:51:00 - [23]
 

Because CCP is pro-lawbreaker and feels they most hold their hands and protect them from the bad-bad mission runners.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tyrantus
LRN2TROLL. Wink


dude, discuss the topic or stfu. the only troll i see here is you

Miffed Kit
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:54:00 - [25]
 

The salvaging game mechanic is working as intended. In RL, if a ship is wrecked and abandoned then anyone can come along and salvage it. It is first come first serve. Salvaging in RL

In Eve, the NPC ships technically belong to the rat corp, not the player. Therefore, when the rat is destroyed the wreck is open to anyone since it is a destroyed and abandoned ship. CCP added this mechanic to make it more realistic.

There is still the question of why loot belongs to the player and the wreck doesn't, but I can't answer that.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:57:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Amastat on 27/06/2008 16:57:43
Originally by: Miffed Kit
The salvaging game mechanic is working as intended. In RL, if a ship is wrecked and abandoned then anyone can come along and salvage it. It is first come first serve. Salvaging in RL

In Eve, the NPC ships technically belong to the rat corp, not the player. Therefore, when the rat is destroyed the wreck is open to anyone since it is a destroyed and abandoned ship. CCP added this mechanic to make it more realistic.

There is still the question of why loot belongs to the player and the wreck doesn't, but I can't answer that.


Arghh... must resist... the sheer.. cant resist! ><

Then why is it when you tractor beam yellow wreck, the game tells you: "you cannot tractor beam the wreck, because it belongs to (insert playername's)"?!?!?!?!?!??!

ARGHHHHH - THIS ARGUEMENT IS ******ED! SOMEONE KILL IT!!!!!

Miffed Kit
Posted - 2008.06.27 16:59:00 - [27]
 

I have no idea why you can't tractor it, TBH.

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.27 17:00:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Originally by: Tyrantus
LRN2TROLL. Wink


dude, discuss the topic or stfu. the only troll i see here is you


CCP stated that wrecks are fair game for all. I happen to agree with that descision on many levels. I'm sure you will disagree. In the meantime CCP will not change the current salvage mechanics no matter how many threads or pages a thread like this gets to.

/end discussion Very Happy

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 17:00:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Miffed Kit
I have no idea why you can't tractor it, TBH.


It's because CCP contradict themselves and royally suck at justifying the crap that comes out of their mouth, thats why. They need to make tractor beams tractor the stuff, or they need to make salvage a criminal act.

Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
Posted - 2008.06.27 17:11:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Quelque Chose on 27/06/2008 17:12:21
Here's the deal with tractoring and cans/ wrecks.

Facts: players own the cans from any rats they kill, and now they also own the cans from any mission rats they spawn. Only corpmates get tractor privs on those cans, and you can't tractor a wreck without also tractoring its can.

Speculation: to cut down on db queries the game doesn't distinguish between empty wreck cans and those that have contents in this case. Therefore, all wrecks are considered to have cans for purposes of tractoring and thus nobody but the killer and his corpmates can tractor the wreck.


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