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blankseplocked Protest to People Selling Labs
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Gee Man
Holy Knights
Posted - 2004.05.13 15:55:00 - [1]

Why encourage lamers to hog labs and sell them?
Just don't give them the business.

All those people who are in the "WTS: Labs etc" business, give us a sensible reason for you doing that? I don't think there is any, apart from GREED and being lame. People should just reply to those post with "Hey you lamer, I'm not buying your lab, I know your name, I'm gonna pod your ass".

Hey if I had labs I didn't need to use because I was moving stations, I would offer them first to friends (free), and if not then I would just set them free for anyone to use.

Support the cause and don't buy labs from people. Not doing so will just encourage the lamers out there to think there's a business in it.

Labs can be found, if you persist. In the past few weeks I found one station, about 13 jumps from central areas in safe space (0.9). At first it was just 2 labs, then more started to free up as they were expiring from others, we now manage to hold 12 labs and they are all in good use. I use 5 labs at once, our corp researcher can use 6 and other members use the last one. Note: This is in a very very quiet system, which makes me wonder how long until the other labs will expire as I never see anyone else there?

I just want to add another tip for lab seekers (unfortunately I'm sure the lamers will also see this so you'll have to race there maybe). Metropolis is the biggest region in EVE with the most constellations & systems I have seen on map, there are many lab stations there and you will find that this region (despite its size) is quiet for the most part.

Good luck, and death to all lab selling lamers!

Posted - 2004.05.13 16:07:00 - [2]

well if I goto the trouble to find them and then dont need them anymore I dont see why I cant try and turn a profit once I dont need them anymore. Its not like anyone handed them out to me in the first place.

Deadeye Blind
GalacTECH Unlimited
Posted - 2004.05.13 16:47:00 - [3]

It's called a free market economy. I have something that is in high demand with a low supply. If I have gone to the effort to find something, why should I give away my time?

There are lab slots to be found sure. However, for those who do not want to spend the time looking through system after system, station after station to find one, the option to buy the rights to one exist.

If you don't like it...don't buy one. It's as simple as that, but don't tell others how to play the game.

Liona D'aramange
Posted - 2004.05.13 16:48:00 - [4]

greed is a key feature in eve... new markets will come and go. if there are buyers there WILL be sellers. human behavoiur.

Posted - 2004.05.13 16:49:00 - [5]

Why sell labs? Because you can make money doing it. This is same reason people do most other things in eve, dumb question really.

Now why can you sell labs for a profit is a good question. The answer is that CCP so far hasn't bothered to make the NPC's the sell them semi-intelligent and adjust the prices and supply of the labs to match the demand. Right now the number of players continues to increase, increasing the demand for labs, while the npcs provide the same number of labs at the same price. This is basic economics, and the players have moved to take advantage of the dumb npcs.

Emeth Morgan
Posted - 2004.05.13 17:09:00 - [6]

What is the rent of a lab? Or can you buy them so you don't have to pay anymore for it?

Posted - 2004.05.13 17:45:00 - [7]

Originally by: Emeth Morgan
What is the rent of a lab? Or can you buy them so you don't have to pay anymore for it?

It's a flat 1k isk no matter where the lab is located. As opposed to factories, which scale up the closer you get to the highway. Or rather, the old highway.

Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.05.13 20:33:00 - [8]

I agree Gee Man Cool

Posted - 2004.05.13 21:13:00 - [9]

ive seen numerous posts discussing the issue of selling labs. I guess a tempory solution to the lab problem would be to increase cost, but won't the low supply of labs increase when player owned structures, such as research facilities, are added in shivaQuestion

Baldour Ngarr
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2004.05.14 07:32:00 - [10]

Originally by: Shakul
ive seen numerous posts discussing the issue of selling labs. I guess a tempory solution to the lab problem would be to increase cost, but won't the low supply of labs increase when player owned structures, such as research facilities, are added in shivaQuestion

Increasing the cost wouldn't really make a lot of difference. No one player has more than 6 labs in permanent use anyway, and there's several thousand such in the game; the problem is there's too many players for the number of slots.

Ergo, the only solutions available are (a) increasing the number of slots, or (b) getting rid of some players. I don't see any games company with as many as two brain cells wanting to adopt (b) as their solution of choice Cool

Severe McCald
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.05.14 12:10:00 - [11]

I think an increase in cost would work. It worked with the factories. If it is costly to keep, then you wont keep it unless you actually want to use it.

At these prices you might as well keep BP's increasing ME towards infinite, until you need the lab for something else.


Posted - 2004.05.14 13:26:00 - [12]

If I was into the lab selling business and the retainer price went up, You know what I'd do? I'd simply put the price I was selling labs at up by a concordant amount - I'd have an excuse and I'd lose nothing, infact I'd probably make even more.

That's a total non-solution.

Plus if people are thoughtful about it, labs in empire should be cheap and in 0.0 very expensive due to maintainance costs.

Finally if you put lab rental fees up you are penalising the people that empire space labs are aimed at i.e. new player researchers. The Labs are in safe areas for them not for old hands. They certainly aren't there for one-man armies who don't want to manufacture for themselves and don't feel like supporting their local traders.

Rock Tronics
Posted - 2004.05.14 15:25:00 - [13]

Hmmm, seems to me that you should be protesting alliances as well, since they hog all the rare ores to themselves, and the good loot too. It's just part of Eve, which brings out the best and worst of pure, unbridled capitalism. By taking slots to sell to others these people are claiming turf and making a profit on it. Now, I'm not saying that I would pay a ridiculous price for a lab, but if they find suckers willing to do so when so many pre-researched bpcs are out there, then more power to them. It is EXACTLY what Eve is about. The game is about having fun and making friends, but it is also about exploiting resources and getting as good a return on investment as possible. If I can turn 1000 ISK into 100,000 that's a heck of a lot better than spending that ISK on trade goods and getting maybe 1300 back on it.

Posted - 2004.05.14 22:41:00 - [14]

isnt greed what runs the world, why sell ships, infact why sell anything, irl why work to survive when you can start a new enterprise and if lucky become rich?

Dragon Wolf Enterprises
Posted - 2004.05.15 11:47:00 - [15]

Well if it came down to mining yer roids off or selling 10 labs...that is such an obvious answer Im not even goin to as the question...

Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Posted - 2004.05.15 21:43:00 - [16]

Firstly Labs should be free for all.
Of course there are people selling them,since that is the nature of Eve.
I think that this is a wrong additude( just like the alliances btw) cause next thing that's gonna happen is that all factories are being sold, this wil put a tremendous stop on production off stuff. And then what...? Regular things like ab's ammo wil get scarce and ultimately it will be high priced and unsaleable? So welcome inflation or the big corporoation wil get bigger and eventually starting corporation are forced to join alliances. But hey just like we say Eve is like the real world..

But that just future talk, eventually CCP wil step in and regulate thing is my guess.

Severe McCald
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.05.17 16:27:00 - [17]

The same thing used to happen with the factories, until the price (and, to be fair, the supply) was substantially increased.

People selling could just increase their prices, but in the meantime they would be losing money and if the lab isn't actually doing anything useful, I believe it would soon be back on the market. Plus, they might find that their market disappears when they are not looking (if they hang on too long).


Peanut Factory
Posted - 2004.05.17 23:31:00 - [18]

Currently I have 17 labs in full use... few weeks ago I had double that. Simply moved to a new area and got new labs, and did'nt need the old.. and I did sell them as I no longer wanted to travel to them. As my labs needs get smaller I'll do the same and sell them off. They are hard to come by.. and thats why people pay for them. Simple really. As for me being a lamerRolling Eyes Its simple business... I had to pay for the new ones and sold the old to recoup the isk... you my friend need to quit whining. If you'd like to 'pod my ass' please feel free to look me up... I'll let you tryRazz

InGen Corporation
Posted - 2004.05.18 20:54:00 - [19]

Originally by: McFly
Its simple business... I had to pay for the new ones and sold the old to recoup the isk...

There's only one flaw in this logic, McFly. Did you sell the lab to the next guy for 1000isk? If not, you are a profiteer just like those who make millions selling 1000isk lab slots. Not saying it's wrong, or you shouldn't do it... just simply saying, it cost you 1000isk. "recouping" the cost would be, uh... 1000isk. :)

Most won't even consider selling at the rate they bought. Demand increases Value. It's the way of the worl- er, Universe.

Peanut Factory
Posted - 2004.05.18 21:26:00 - [20]

Edited by: McFly on 18/05/2004 21:35:59
Ok, lemme put it in simple terms for you to understand.
The new labs I paid 1mil each for, and to recoup I sold my old ones for 1mil each... as for the 1k isk to rent them.. yeah thats what its costs.. if you can find any unrented.

If you still disagree with how I do things you have the god givin right. Tbh I dont give a flying purple **** how you look at itRazz

p.s the only profit I make is off of selling bpc's or my productions.... not that labs Wink

Baer Mearund
BM Industries
Posted - 2004.05.18 22:46:00 - [21]

I was thinking that perhaps we oughta kill two birds with one stone here. Vastly increase the number of slots, and reduce the rate at which they all work. Let's face it, at the moment one lab running full-time on useful blueprints, for a scant 1k every 5 days and very little else, is a gold mine. The savings you get from just four levels of materials efficiency research is staggering, and for the small stuff you can do that inside a few hours. I mean how many scientists can you get working around one itty-bitty blueprint anyway? :P

With so many research slots available, it won't be so hard [for new researchers] to snag one and hold on to it. And the benefits you'll get, while not as startling as before, will still be substantial.

One thing which also jumps out at me is that the quality of slots (apart from price, for factories) is identical across all known space. Everyone who works in them are productive little bunnies who never take a sick day, never get stuck for ideas or screw up a production run, and most importantly, don't go on strike. Okay, so the simplification is there for our benefit, but I would rather that there were some sort of ongoing 'issues' that would make hogging slots untenable.

Well, just flapping my jaw as usual....

Ordnance Delivery Services Inc.
Posted - 2004.05.19 08:51:00 - [22]

Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 19/05/2004 08:52:05
I recently sold a number of labs which were no longer convienent for me to use. They were sold to the person who needed them most - how do I know? He was willing to pay the most money.

Its called capitalism. If you dont like it, I suggust you move to Soviet Russia EVE - where asteroid mines YOU!

Jim Steele
Dead By Dawn
Posted - 2004.05.19 16:29:00 - [23]

lab slots eventually come free and ive found stations around with plenty free there just not in carbare land, which suits me as the ores worth more Wink

Baer Mearund
BM Industries
Posted - 2004.05.19 18:05:00 - [24]

Capitalism is all very fine and dandy but in practise it is rarely the entire basis of an economy, even the one implemented in EVE. By inflating the price of something because of its inherent utility (i.e. people must have it at some point) and not because you want to set a reasonable price which will guarantee a sale within a short space of time, you're tying up assets which could be put to better use and, you're reducing the competitiveness of any product which comes out of that lab, because the cost of acquiring the facility must be factored in.

I hear you ask, why should I care what this lab costs the next person to use it? Because, quite simply, finished products are what people like yourself buy when you can't take the time out to make them out of your own resources. It's a convenience to find everything from munitions to battleships, stocked by someone who is willing to assume the risk of producing stuff that doesn't necessarily give a huge and immediate return.

So in the end inflation creates (surprise surprise) even more inflation. I'm no economics guru, but I do know that too much inflation can devalue currency to the point where a million of something won't buy you a loaf of bread, never mind a state-of-the-art warship.

InGen Corporation
Posted - 2004.05.20 19:21:00 - [25]

Originally by: McFly
If you still disagree with how I do things you have the god givin right. Tbh I dont give a flying purple **** how you look at itRazz

Golly, McFly, who lit the fuse on your feminine hygene product? I don't care what you do. My question was simply, did you buy it for 1000 and sell it for 1000000. That's pretty much all you had to say, or nothing at all, because my knowledge of what you do is not really that important. Huh?

Chill out, dude.

Peanut Factory
Posted - 2004.05.20 21:14:00 - [26]

I paid 1mil for my new labs, and sold the old ones(too far for me to travel to) for 1mil. Plain and simple. I'm just really sick of the whiners in this game about the labs. Have pactience you'll find them for the regular renting price.. or suck it up and just buy them from sombody selling.

Baer Mearund
BM Industries
Posted - 2004.05.20 23:54:00 - [27]

What if I want a lab slot in this one system, nowhere else will do, and no matter how hard I try, I can't even find someone who has a slot, never mind wants to sell one?

What if they're just renting the slot and running a dummy blueprint through it now and then just to be mean and deny everyone else the use of it? Be pretty lame considering how much they can probably get for it, but if they can be lazy and just sell it whenever, they don't exactly need to advertise it anywhere, do they?

I've got nothing against people who actually need the slots, it's people who hang on to them just to be mean that make me sick of even trying to find a slot anywhere.

Posted - 2004.05.22 10:16:00 - [28]

I thought it was all that rampant capitalism, and the greedy st00pidness, thats sent our market all to hell?

Anyway my opinion is we need a lot more lab slots, and/or Shiva to reduce the demand. I dont really blame the lab lamers for selling them, I blame CCP for not making enough of a item you really need to get ahead in the manufacturing game.

ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2004.05.22 11:19:00 - [29]

Actually the worst problem is "young" players who want to go for research don't have the opportunity of doing it as they do no have the money nor the connections to get one...
I think something should really be done about this matter.

Posted - 2004.05.22 15:32:00 - [30] im hoping the devs or any one with athorty see s this post and says somthing abought it its crazy how hard it is to find a slot

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