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Xin Wen
Posted - 2008.06.16 05:55:00 - [61]
 

If you are flying missions, then the answer is pretty simple and not even worth arguing. The Golem gets major tractor bonus with twice as fast and twice the reach on cans. It also has much more space in the cargo to store your loot. It puts out as much damage as a CNR from what I can see. People that don't have the skills to fly the Golem can just say they like the CNR better. Who cares in the end though??

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.16 06:36:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Xin Wen
If you are flying missions, then the answer is pretty simple and not even worth arguing. The Golem gets major tractor bonus with twice as fast and twice the reach on cans. It also has much more space in the cargo to store your loot. It puts out as much damage as a CNR from what I can see. People that don't have the skills to fly the Golem can just say they like the CNR better. Who cares in the end though??


You are incorrect - CNR has 7 launchers, and a 25% RoF bonus, giving it 9.33 effective launchers of damage output.

Golem has 4 launchers, and a 100% role bonus to damage, giving it 8 effective launchers of damage output.

Which, believe it or not, is why this thread exists - it's not a whole bunch of people lacking your awesome insight into it being 'obvious'.


Treean
Posted - 2008.06.16 08:36:00 - [63]
 

The real question is...what is the NET damage output of the CNR and the Golem vs NPC rats in missions. What's the average makeup of ship types in missions. Which will be more efficient...the CNR or the Golem with it's notable advantage to killing smaller targets.

The ships do similar gross DPS with cruise to the point of irrelevance. The real determining factor for efficiency is the net damage output in any given mission.

That asside, you can fit a much tougher tank on the golem for dirt cheap. It's easy to achieve an 800-1500 sustainable, rat specific tank on a golem.

Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2008.06.16 08:39:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Talaan Stardrifter on 16/06/2008 08:43:38
Originally by: Talio ZomB
...

note: practical torp ranges, 40km CN 60km jav, EFT does quote higher for my skills/hardwiring/rigs but truth is less.


EVE Trinity 'fixed' the missile speed and flight time bonus stacks. They now apply their bonuses as a percentage of the base value.
EFT may not have been updated to reflect this.

For example, Missile Projection 5 and Caldari Battleship 5:
Old Stack: Base Speed * Projection * Raven Bonus = Base Speed * 2.25
New Stack: Base Speed * (Projection + Raven Bonus) = Base Speed * 2

This effect is compounded on the Cerberus, which has a flight time bonus also:
Old Stack: Base Speed * (2.25) * Base Time * Bombardment * Ship Bonus = Base Speed * Base Time * 5.06
New Stack: Base Speed * (2.0) * Base Time * (Bombardment * Ship Bonus) = Base Speed * Base Time * 4

I've also noticed rounding errors with regards to calulated engagement range and actual engagement range being varying by a few km's.

R3dSh1ft
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.16 10:10:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: R3dSh1ft on 16/06/2008 10:11:43
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Edited by: R3dSh1ft on 15/06/2008 12:08:27
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
stuff


Maybe I hit a nerve?

mission running is for making isk to PvP in my book, I never found EvE's PVE content particularly appealing for its own merits.

I also tend to enjoy watching a movie or catching up on some work while it goes on, so CNR is the best for this.


The only nerve you hit is my annoyance with most PvP people being incapable of understanding that different people enjoy different things about EVE. In fact I very often get the impression that they are even jealous of other people actually having fun earning money which for them is a boring grind, and thus they want those people nerfed down to their level. And I just can't help finding that attitude disgusting.

I agree that for your approach the CNR is ideal, but your approach is not the best approach for everyone, and in fact very far from the best approach for people into PvE as a profession rather than an isk grind to fund pvp.


I recommend therapy, the op asked which do you prefer and why. Even a layman can see you have a persecution complex.

Gul Rashen
Posted - 2008.06.16 10:15:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Gul Rashen on 16/06/2008 10:25:25
Originally by: James Lyrus

You are incorrect - CNR has 7 launchers, and a 25% RoF bonus, giving it 9.33 effective launchers of damage output.
Golem has 4 launchers, and a 100% role bonus to damage, giving it 8 effective launchers of damage output.
Which, believe it or not, is why this thread exists - it's not a whole bunch of people lacking your awesome insight into it being 'obvious'.



Once again..in the 20th Golem/CNR-Thread,OMG: DPS is not the same as effective Damageoutput and not the same as Killspeed. CNR does more Damage over Time through the ROF-Bonus, Golem has more Volleydamage cause the Damagebonus*. In the practice is the Killspeed with Cruise Missiles nearly the same( in some Missions the CNR is a Minute faster in others the Golem), with Torps the Killspeed of a 2TP Golem with T2 Launchers is unbeaten. The real Strength of the Golem is the TP-Bonus and the ability to fit 2TPs, still having the same Tank and Cap as the CNR without TPs and that with the Tractorbonus and more speed which boosts the Killspeed also. And with those 2 TPs the Damage of a Torpgolem is insane.

Use the searchfunction and read the other threads with Facts and Numbers:
LINK

*The effective Launcher-Calculation is wothless, if you are compairing Ships with different Bonusses. The CNR has still the Damage of 7 Launchers but firing at 25% faster speed, so it is a Bonus that gives more Damage in longer lasting fights and the Golem has the Damage of 8 Launchers which fire slower, so it is doing 14,3% more Damage whith each Volley which can be an Advantage in shorter Fights.

For some Pilots and Playstyles the CNR is the better Ship, for others it is the Golem.

Back to Topic:
I used the CNR nearly a Year and then changed to the Golem. I prefer it cause its so simple to fit, cause the Tractorbonus is so comfortable, cause i can fit it completely with T2-Items and still having enough Cap and Tank and i love the Damageoutput with Torps. In the Beginning there were still some Missions where i used my CNR fitted with CMs. But a Month ago i sold the CNR cause there was no need to have 2 so similar Ships.


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