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CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2008.06.12 19:19:00 - [31]
 

I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?

El Libre
Posted - 2008.06.12 19:41:00 - [32]
 

I have no first hand knowledge of this, but I don't see how it could be worth it. 50k lp still breaks down to 12.5k per person if you were to run the level 5's with 4 people. Not sure the time it would take, but purely for the sake of LP gain, you'd be better off running 3's or 4's?

Ranges
Viper Intel Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2008.06.12 20:24:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


Ermm.. perhaps i'm being a total numbskull, but isnt this specific thread about L5 missions? (and isn't EA a lvl 4 mission, among others?)

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.06.12 21:05:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Ranges
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


Ermm.. perhaps i'm being a total numbskull, but isnt this specific thread about L5 missions? (and isn't EA a lvl 4 mission, among others?)


Empyrean Age.

12.5k LP per player is really good - depending on the social skills of the characters involved. That's 1.5 times more than I make running missions in high sec for a Level 4, Q 18 agent in a 0.5 system (~8600 LP for a good mission with good, but not maxed Social skills). With max Social skills for the person getting the Level 5 mission, they could well be worth it.

The time involved isn't really that great in Level 5s, from my understanding. The problem is the pirates ganking you on your way to the mission.

Fist1
Hostile Alcoholic Commanders
Posted - 2008.06.12 21:12:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: FT Diomedes
Originally by: Ranges
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
The time involved isn't really that great in Level 5s, from my understanding. The problem is the pirates ganking you on your way to the mission.
yeah the problem with the 2 prior caldari agents is that they are next to Taisy, which is gatecamp hell. I am hoping that with the new 3rd lvl 5 agent in black rise and the black rise region itself, some of the pirates will leave for black rise, but I doubt it.

Faekurias
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.06.12 22:39:00 - [36]
 

cheaper navy stuff, woo \o/

deepb
Posted - 2008.06.13 01:09:00 - [37]
 

Quote:
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?
Yes, absolutely.

Just to clarify, you said "bug squashing" instead of "reward tuning" - does that mean that this was how it was supposed to be all along?

Jolliejoe
Caldari
Stellar Implosions
Posted - 2008.06.13 08:31:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


What? So you are actually surprised that some bugs your fixed, fixed something else you didn't know about??? Hmm... doesn't sound like you know what you are doing.

Tsoldrin Beychae
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:23:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Jolliejoe
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


What? So you are actually surprised that some bugs your fixed, fixed something else you didn't know about??? Hmm... doesn't sound like you know what you are doing.



I think he is saying that for once people seem happy with some of the alterations in the EA expansion instead of the standard CCP = phail over EA whine threads.

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2008.06.13 10:35:00 - [40]
 

As per comments I just made in this thread, we realized while digging through the rewards code recently that it wasn't properly scaling the rewards by level in the case of level 5 missions. This issue was corrected and the rewards increased to the levels you're seeing today.

Mother Drone
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.13 12:17:00 - [41]
 



45-55k LPs are a lot. A lot of nothing. There are already enough LPs ingame but it lacks of available faction tags AND good LP-shop offers. Modules and implants are little more worth than the required amount of ISK for the shop offer. And the value of LPs will decrease even more...

Problem: Unbalanced lvl 5 missions.
Solution: Increased LP rewards.
Result: Lulz!


Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.06.13 14:31:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mother Drone


45-55k LPs are a lot. A lot of nothing. There are already enough LPs ingame but it lacks of available faction tags AND good LP-shop offers. Modules and implants are little more worth than the required amount of ISK for the shop offer. And the value of LPs will decrease even more...

Problem: Unbalanced lvl 5 missions.
Solution: Increased LP rewards.
Result: Lulz!



Ya all this does is severely depeciate the value of LP as it is. We need tons more lp store offers at significant levels to soak up all the lp.

Thanatos Navy Issue
Chimera '
Nid '
Archon '

Malcentis Tal
Posted - 2008.06.13 15:58:00 - [43]
 

Would love to see better LP store rewards or a drop in the amount of tags etc for the high end stuff. You could be sitting on a heap of LPs but have nothing to buy. Crying or Very sad

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.06.13 16:54:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Malcentis Tal
Would love to see better LP store rewards or a drop in the amount of tags etc for the high end stuff. You could be sitting on a heap of LPs but have nothing to buy. Crying or Very sad


Yes. I spent a million Gallente LP last month. And I have a million Minmatar LP to spend this month. It would be easier to unload it if tags were more plentiful and offers were better, but I still have found a market for converting it to ISK at a decent rate (the good old 1000 ISK/LP standard).

Death4free
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.13 16:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Mother Drone


45-55k LPs are a lot. A lot of nothing. There are already enough LPs ingame but it lacks of available faction tags AND good LP-shop offers. Modules and implants are little more worth than the required amount of ISK for the shop offer. And the value of LPs will decrease even more...

Problem: Unbalanced lvl 5 missions.
Solution: Increased LP rewards.
Result: Lulz!




go away and die in a corner you little whiner....

seriousely when level 5s were released everyone complained about how crap they were....now they have been buffed you are whining....

Muff Alt
Posted - 2008.06.21 11:41:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


No its about bloody time CCP decided to make them worth while or you could nerf them and see that people will just not run them....

Risk Vs Reward everyone keeps belting on about.. well no you have the reward and more pirates will come to the areas thus the risk will be higher.

CCP dont nerf them otherwise ppl will return to Motsu ugh

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.21 15:43:00 - [47]
 

If you think balancing level 5's is going to crash the LP market, you're a tard. Razz Only a handful of people will go do level 5's and probably they will mostly do it for fun, not farming. It's just that now they get comparable reward from level 5's as they would have gotten from level 4's. This will have little, if any, impact on the LP market and will at least make level 5's worth considering.

Android Mindslave
Gallente
Mindworks
Posted - 2008.06.22 01:46:00 - [48]
 

I thought all of the ships in the faction warfare missions were dropping tags.

Shouldn't that increase the tag supply or is there something I'm missing?

Boz Dura
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.06.22 04:55:00 - [49]
 

Me and my corp m8 have run several lvl5's both with carriers and when there have been gates, with BS's and logistics ships. We're averaging 33/35k LP's and about 5mil (+any bounties). we've had quite a few tags from the various faction ships they do seem plentyful now (although i wouldn't complain if it were increasedVery Happy).

Deffo worth doing in my opinion, you can make more isk (directly) from lvl4's but the LP reward is worth more to us.

Mr Toril
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2008.06.22 13:03:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: FT Diomedes

12.5k LP per player is really good - depending on the social skills of the characters involved. That's 1.5 times more than I make running missions in high sec for a Level 4, Q 18 agent in a 0.5 system (~8600 LP for a good mission with good, but not maxed Social skills). With max Social skills for the person getting the Level 5 mission, they could well be worth it.

The time involved isn't really that great in Level 5s, from my understanding. The problem is the pirates ganking you on your way to the mission.


12.5 k lp is not that much. I get that from most lvl 4 missions in low sec. You are better of soloing lvl 4 missions in low sec than lvl 5s.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2008.06.22 17:39:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Zhang Ramses

How much were L5 missions giving out prior to this patch? Is 55k LP a significant improvement?


i only did one lvl 5 when they were released reward was summat like 15k isk and 400 lp why i never did another one so a HUGE improvement now

tropic35
Posted - 2008.06.23 20:09:00 - [52]
 

I posted this elsewhere but i think i can add it to this thread also as it covers a few issues. Hopefully thats ok.

First of all let me make something very clear, I am a carebear. I most evenings/weekends do lvl 4 missions with my corp mates or solo.

I have no interest in Empyrean Age or loosing my stuff in pointless PVP.

I enjoy having 2 billion ISK in my wallet with a hanger full of expensive ships kitted out with T2/factional equipment at my disposal. Also I think its great my training time is cut down by the fact my head is full of implants.

I don't want to PVP, I am a PVE'er.

I run three accounts and each one has over 35 million skill points.

OK that's the background. Now for my impossible wish list.

1.Greater quantity of level 4 missions available
2.Harder level 5 missions available in high sec
3.Less repeats of same mission within same session
4.More variety of quests

I did a comparison between EVE and WOW with my wife who plays it. This is because this is another MMORPG popular currently.

She at her level 70 gets to choose from apx 50 zones (factional) in eve its 4. I.e. nagrand, duskwood, ironforge, as opposed to Amarr, caldari, Minmatar etc

She has approximately 1200 quests (missions) to choose from we from lvl 4 agents have 45. I.e. available between 60-70 on WOW.

She can choose which missions she wants to do, we do the ones offered or loose standing with agent.

I know what your all going to say “play wow then” but thats not the point I am trying to make. I dont want to play WOW, I want to play a better EVE.

If what I want is impossible and its just about the pvp/grief/loss that is in the heart of EVE then I am sorry it took me nearly 4 years to learn the lesson.

YuenLee aka Tropic35 aka Galatea Lee

Shadowluna
Posted - 2008.06.23 22:03:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: tropic35

I did a comparison between EVE and WOW with my wife who plays it. This is because this is another MMORPG popular currently.

She at her level 70 gets to choose from apx 50 zones (factional) in eve its 4. I.e. nagrand, duskwood, ironforge, as opposed to Amarr, caldari, Minmatar etc

She has approximately 1200 quests (missions) to choose from we from lvl 4 agents have 45. I.e. available between 60-70 on WOW.

She can choose which missions she wants to do, we do the ones offered or loose standing with agent.


Completely off topic and at the risk of (probably) being called a troll/flamer/whatever ...
As a long time WoW player I just have this incredible urge to reply to a post like this.

First of all, not each zone in WoW has it's own faction.
It would actually be more accurate to compare the zones in WoW to each solarsystem in EVE. EVE will be the big winner here.

I'm not going to go into a big discussion on factions but EVE got more than 4. Something you should know after claiming you've been playing this game for 4 years.

And then the final point: the missions.
In WoW you can choose from 1200 quests but after they're done they cannot be repeated.
Yes, they now have some repeatable 'daily' quests in WoW but they are even more braindead and boring than EVE missions.

So please, next time don't compare 2 games when you obviously havent even played one of them.
It will only make you look stupid.

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.06.23 22:27:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: tropic35
If what I want is impossible and its just about the pvp/grief/loss that is in the heart of EVE then I am sorry it took me nearly 4 years to learn the lesson.


so am I

heyitsaminingalt
Posted - 2008.07.10 19:09:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: tropic35
If what I want is impossible and its just about the pvp/grief/loss that is in the heart of EVE then I am sorry it took me nearly 4 years to learn the lesson.

A) Have you run ALL of the COSMOS areas?
B) Gone in to 0.0 to scan for Escalating Deadspace complexes?
C) Tried hacking/archeology sub-professions/exploration
D) Gone after the L5 missions?

and failing all of that

D) Realized Eve -is- primarily about the PvP? It's great fun. I don't see why you, sitting on 2billion ISK, and a hanger full of faction fit ships, are worried about losing a few. Go research some PvP fits, find a corp that helps people get in to PvP, and try it!

Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek
Lodizal Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.07.10 20:01:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?

The biggest barrier for me is their exclusive presence in low sec, and the ease with which drone-using ships are probed out while missioning. This is not a complaint, mind you... I'm rather content running L4 missions in 0.5 space at the moment. I'm merely stating what is keeping me, personally, from regularly trying L5 missions. In the end, the reward would have to be disproportionately huge (and out of balance) for me to risk running them regularly.

Putting very low quality L5 agents in high sec space, or making drone-using ships comparably difficult to probe out to non-drone using ships would probably be a more sound approach to getting me to run L5 missions than buffing the rewards at this point.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.07.11 00:31:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm thinking from reading this thread that the bug-squashing we did in EA is leading to payouts that people think are more satisfactory?


I would think you guys would have the tools to see if people are running them or not Laughing

as for tags run level 5s, they are supposed to drop a lot Very Happy

Vibora BR
Posted - 2008.07.11 02:47:00 - [58]
 

Guys,

I don't want to whine but I can run a L4 mission in high sec by myself without a very big risk and make like 9000 LP.

So run a L5 mission in 4 guys through Low sec and earn like 13000 LPs is not something that sound good to me.

I like that it has been improved but seems as it is still missing some tweak.

Just my 2 cents.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.07.11 02:55:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Vibora BR
Guys,

I don't want to whine but I can run a L4 mission in high sec by myself without a very big risk and make like 9000 LP.

So run a L5 mission in 4 guys through Low sec and earn like 13000 LPs is not something that sound good to me.

I like that it has been improved but seems as it is still missing some tweak.

Just my 2 cents.


That 9000 was multiplied by approx factor of 5 in recent patch so if you would be liking to do lev 5 missions then at least from LP side it is ok.

Vibora BR
Posted - 2008.07.11 03:00:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Vibora BR
Guys,

I don't want to whine but I can run a L4 mission in high sec by myself without a very big risk and make like 9000 LP.

So run a L5 mission in 4 guys through Low sec and earn like 13000 LPs is not something that sound good to me.

I like that it has been improved but seems as it is still missing some tweak.

Just my 2 cents.


That 9000 was multiplied by approx factor of 5 in recent patch so if you would be liking to do lev 5 missions then at least from LP side it is ok.



Sorry, but I missed your point.

Alone I can make 9000 LPs in a L4 mission in High Sec.

I need other 4 guys to run a L5 mission in Low sec and earn 15000 Lp each.

So the risk doesn't worth the 6000 LPs you get more.

Adding to this in a L4 in high sec I can come back with my salvager and make a lot of money, in a L5 it is also pretty risk.


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