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LG Barry
Posted - 2008.06.09 23:56:00 - [1]
 

Several comments in this forum have touched on missiles being not good for PVP, however, I can't find a thread as to why they are not.

As a Caldari pilot, I run around in my Kestrel alot with its 4 missle slots. I know caldari might not be the best pvp oriented class, but I'm not about to change.

With FW just around the corner, I was wondering why missiles are not good and what I could do to make my Kestrel or just about any caldari ship that uses missles to be more pvp viable.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2008.06.10 00:27:00 - [2]
 

Generally if you want to use missiles in PvP, you need to be up close and personal.

For some reason, guns hit instantly, but missiles have a flight time (I understand this would be true for lasers, but can't work out why projectile and hybrid have no flight time. Anyway it is what it is, so we don't wonder about the physics of it).

If you're able to get in close and get a decent missile volley off, you can be quite effective. If you're out at a distance, chances are the target will be dead by the time your missiles arrive (your buddies have already killed it) or you're dead (your enemy has hit you with guns).

Missiles can work in PvP, you just need to know their limitations and strengths. Their limitations often outweigh their strengths though, so be careful about how you use them.


Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.06.10 00:43:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Generally if you want to use missiles in PvP, you need to be up close and personal.

For some reason, guns hit instantly, but missiles have a flight time (I understand this would be true for lasers, but can't work out why projectile and hybrid have no flight time. Anyway it is what it is, so we don't wonder about the physics of it).


None of the turrets (not even lasers) would have 0 flight time. But their flight time would be short enough that it is practically 0. Does the physics make sense now ?

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2008.06.10 00:52:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Generally if you want to use missiles in PvP, you need to be up close and personal.

For some reason, guns hit instantly, but missiles have a flight time (I understand this would be true for lasers, but can't work out why projectile and hybrid have no flight time. Anyway it is what it is, so we don't wonder about the physics of it).


None of the turrets (not even lasers) would have 0 flight time. But their flight time would be short enough that it is practically 0. Does the physics make sense now ?


Having been a RL gunnery officer in a RL Navy and sometimes waiting for 30s or more for my shot to fall, while my missiles hit in under 10s. No! Laughing But it's a game and I accept that it's the way it is.

Papa Gwan
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.06.10 00:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Papa Gwan on 10/06/2008 00:55:00
It's not that Missiles aren't good in PvP, it's that Sniping with missiles isn't.

In larger battle, ships are popping everywhere and when you get your sights on one and engage, you have to wait for the missile flight time before you actually deal damage. In small battle, missiles are usually a no-go, but in huge fleet battle you'll be alright if you focus on larger targets.

That presents another problem; missiles are not intended to be high-DPS weapon(save for Siege). They are intended to have a tremendous burst of damage, then a large cycle while "cooling down". This makes them excellent for slaughtering smaller crafts, but in a long battle a missile boat will not reach the DPS of a turret boat.

You can still use them in PvP, you just have to be very mindful of your range, the targets hp, and be aware that they can run from them.

Quote:
Having been a RL gunnery officer in a RL Navy and sometimes waiting for 30s or more for my shot to fall, while my missiles hit in under 10s. No! Laughing But it's a game and I accept that it's the way it is.


I think missiles in Eve are intended to be Torpedos rather than true missiles. Still, I agree that turrets should be changed some. Missiles(torps) should be slow, then Projectile Artillery, then Hybrid Railguns, then Lasers. Makes sense to me =P

Stela'Artois
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.10 20:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Stela''Artois on 10/06/2008 20:41:19
As was mentioned prior, missiles are generally considered sub-optimal for PvP because there is a flight time involved. During battles where the engagement range may be +100km, a missile that goes 3-5km per second spends a lot of time waiting for their damage to be delivered. A 10-20 second flight time can allow a turret user a good 2-3 volleys (if not more) of damage to smack into you before your first missile even makes contact.

Now, the balance to this is that turret users have to worry about your speed, trajectory, fall-off ranges and all that jive. Once a missile is launched, if the target is within range and stays that way, then he will ultimately get hit.

Missiles are considered the kings of PvE becuase they take nearly 0 thought to use...lock target, launch missiles, collect loot.

There are setups on the ships forums for the Kestrel for PvP...remember within range, missiles are pretty much guarantied damage. 4 rocket launchers firing every 3 or less seconds can cause some major hurt to most frigs, and in groups, most cruisers as well.

And as far as "why dont turrets have a flight time?" Balance mostly...but if I had to think of a real reason, I would probably say it is because here in the atmosphere there are kenetic forces that slow down a projectile...namely gravity and air resistance. In space, neither of these exist (to the same extent as here on earth). Therefore, a projectile fired in space would take an extremely long time to lose its exit velocity from the gun that fired it. I assume that the ranges they put on guns has more to do with accuracy than with the actual round stopping (save for the case of hybrid/blaster ammo that could just dissipate to the point of losing its sting, or perhaps with lasers that lose their focus and are no longer condensed enough to burn.)

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2008.06.10 20:41:00 - [7]
 

Another reason why missles have issues are the nano setups these days. In addition to flight times, missles have an explosion velocity as well. If your missles are not fast enough they will not hit the target. Even if they do hit the target, the damage is reduced because of the target's speed.

If you can get a few webs on the ship your trying to shoot that makes a huge difference. Target painters, etc etc.. all help out.

And since you are Caldari there is always the Torp Raven. Get in close and put the hurt on.


 

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