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blankseplocked CSM Formal Meeting 4. Thursday 12th June. 20:00hours Eve Time
 
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:36:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/06/2008 18:09:15

CSM Issue sign off meeting, thursday 12th June, 20:00 hours Eve time.

This is a sign off meeting for the Issues raised onto the agenda for Iceland so far. The intention is to check that we have formal submission documentation for each issue raised, supported and voted onto the agenda so the documentation can be bundled up and indexed and sent to CCP by the CSM secretary following the meeting.

All items for submission need to be mailed to Ankhesentapemkah before by 01:00 hours on Thursday afternoon for the issue to be heard at the sign-off meeting that evening. Any items that are not received in time may be struck off the agenda of issues to be discussed in Iceland at the discretion of the committee

The list below shows issues cross-referenced with the CSM rep responsible for those issues, we expect the CSM reps listed below to produce the submission docs from the template here and have these documents mailed to the CSM secretary (by csm mail address) by the deadline of 01:00 hours Thursday afternoon.

Delegated to: Ankhesentapemkah
Removal of 30/90 day gametime codes
Logserver exploitation and Bacon
Making suicide-ganking more difficult
General Eve Forums improvement/fixing
Drone Implants

Delegated to: Bane Glorious
Skill Queue Functionality

Delegated to: Darius Johnson
Re-examination of 0.0 Sovereignty

Delegated to: Dierdra Vaal
Evaluation of empire war dec mechanics
Reload all Ammo

Delegated to: Hardin
Improve Bombs

Delegated to: Inanna Zuni
5% voter issue
Alliances and Faction Warfare
Proposals for UI Improvements
Replace double-click in a chat channel
Cargo hold size of ships in hanger but not in use
Delegated to: Inanna Zuni

Delegated to: Jade Constantine
Improvements to Black Ops
CSM should vote for its own chairman
Feasibility of Outposts going boom
Aggression timer is too short/variable hull fix

Delegated to: LaVista
Science Industry + Secondary Market
(Issue passed on the condition that document is split into major topics for individual confirming votes prior to submission)
Rigged ships and cargo
-edit mid sized freighters (my bad, this should have been on here all along)

Delegated to: Serenity Steele
Jumpbridges and Cynojammer fix
Transferable Killrights
Funky POS Alterations

To recap, these Issues need to be properly written up and mailed to Ankhesentapemkah by 01:00 hours - Thursday June 12th.
Then we'll check to documents at the meeting in the evening (20:00 hours) prior to giving the CSM secretary permission to index and send directly to CCP in advance of the formal meetings next week.

(In the event that Eve is still down following the patch - we'll do this by IRC.)


Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:37:00 - [2]
 

I feel it's unfair to relegate my issue with cynojammers and jumpbridges to Serenity Steele, a CSM representative who has no concept of the problems involved in this issue.

He advocated a form of CONCORD in 0.0 space for god's sake.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:41:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
I feel it's unfair to relegate my issue with cynojammers and jumpbridges to Serenity Steele, a CSM representative who has no concept of the problems involved in this issue. He advocated a form of CONCORD in 0.0 space for god's sake.


Life is unfair. I emphasize with your plight I really do.


Ceros X
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:50:00 - [4]
 

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772

the issues discussed in this thread, namely the ability of the council to call for a vote of no confidence in the chairperson and a formalization of the powers of the position of chairperson to moderate discussion during formal sittings of the council needs to be added to the agenda

tia

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:56:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ceros X
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772

the issues discussed in this thread, namely the ability of the council to call for a vote of no confidence in the chairperson and a formalization of the powers of the position of chairperson to moderate discussion during formal sittings of the council needs to be added to the agenda

tia


Get a CSM rep to post here requesting it and they will be.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:04:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Ceros X
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772

the issues discussed in this thread, namely the ability of the council to call for a vote of no confidence in the chairperson and a formalization of the powers of the position of chairperson to moderate discussion during formal sittings of the council needs to be added to the agenda

tia


Get a CSM rep to post here requesting it and they will be.



http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#142 - Bane giving his support
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#145 - La Vista giving his support

OH SNAP
(YOU GOT SERVED)
((TALK ABOUT OWNED))
(((GO BACK TO YOUR MASTERS IN ARTHURIAN LITERATURE AND LEARN TO READ A THREAD)))

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Ceros X
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772

the issues discussed in this thread, namely the ability of the council to call for a vote of no confidence in the chairperson and a formalization of the powers of the position of chairperson to moderate discussion during formal sittings of the council needs to be added to the agenda

tia


Get a CSM rep to post here requesting it and they will be.



http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#142 - Bane giving his support
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#145 - La Vista giving his support

OH SNAP
(YOU GOT SERVED)
((TALK ABOUT OWNED))
(((GO BACK TO YOUR MASTERS IN ARTHURIAN LITERATURE AND LEARN TO READ A THREAD)))


They can post in this thread requesting it on the agenda and it'll be done.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Ceros X
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772

the issues discussed in this thread, namely the ability of the council to call for a vote of no confidence in the chairperson and a formalization of the powers of the position of chairperson to moderate discussion during formal sittings of the council needs to be added to the agenda

tia


Get a CSM rep to post here requesting it and they will be.



http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#142 - Bane giving his support
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777772&page=5#145 - La Vista giving his support

OH SNAP
(YOU GOT SERVED)
((TALK ABOUT OWNED))
(((GO BACK TO YOUR MASTERS IN ARTHURIAN LITERATURE AND LEARN TO READ A THREAD)))

But I also stated that I at this time do not wish to bring up this issue.

Learn to read a thread.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista

But I also stated that I at this time do not wish to bring up this issue.

Learn to read a thread.


It is not my fault that you cannot stay facing one direction long enough to stop getting dizzy.

Your support post in that thread indicates that you do wish it to be discussed at the CSM. And yet later you state that you don't. Please make up your mind before telling other people to read threads, you can't even manage to read your own previous posts.

Bane Glorious
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:34:00 - [10]
 


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:42:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bane Glorious
"Capital Ships Online"
Buff Large Autocannons (especially Dual 650mms and 800mms)
Abolish Learning Skills


Those will be for the Sunday following Bane - to be announced. Since they are 7 day issues that need to be formally voted. Remember that as agreed yesterday you'll need to provide the fully-written submission template with each of those and if they get voted through.

This Thursday meeting is currently purely to confirm items for submission before the CCP deadline. + any crazy admin sack the chair / abolish moderation style procedural votes that people want to bring to filibuster the meeting with if they get bum-rushed into it by forum nonsense.

Anything after that / including the sunday issues we'll be submitting as a secondary group and asking CCP to make an exception on the 7 in advance rule if we have the time on the agenda.

TL:DR version.

I'll put those on the agenda for the Sunday meeting, but you'll need to make sure each issue is fully documented with the CCP submission template.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.09 14:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

I'll put those on the agenda for the Sunday meeting, but you'll need to make sure each issue is fully documented with the CCP submission template.



I would like to put the following items on the Sunday agenda and take responsibility for getting the Template worked up.

Completion of unfinished Story Arcs:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=789648

Promotion of Roleplay Interests in EVE:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=791735

Jade, these two issues are very interrelated and can I believe be incorporated into one 'issue' template for the Sunday meeting - particularly as Rodj's fits within the scope of Kai Zion's.

I would therefore like to bring this forward these as a 'Developing a coherent roleplay strategy' issue which will be more effective in terms of CSM time!

Similarly, I would also like to flag up another two issues which I also believe fit together and would come under the heading 'Standings Management' and would be helful for the administrators of Standings throughout the galaxy.

Increase the number of corporation standing slots: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=789692

Corps should automatically obtain alliance standings: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=791955

The second issue does not have much support (no opposition either) probably because it is a peripheral item of relevance to a relatively small number of players but I think it can be addressed relatively easily within the scope of the 'Standings Management' issue.

Thanks


Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.09 14:10:00 - [13]
 

I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.


Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.06.09 14:38:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 09/06/2008 14:39:18
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.


I would concur with this, despite my UK base I have long experience of world-wide online meetings (and the innate difficulty in scheduling them) but when it is known that two of the CSM are US-based then it is unreasonable to intentionally schedule a meeting they cannot be present at.

The timezones the current 'CSM 9' are in are, I believe, CDT, BST(GMT+1) and EDT so there is a six hours gap. This is very clearly a problem on a weekday (due to school / college / work / etc), thus an actual 'meeting' might not be the right way to proceed (midnight European being 6pm East Coast is the nearest to a possible time and is still very imperfect) so maybe a thread on the unused-so-far 'Proclamations' forum is the right way to go here, with each Council member posting their submission as a new thread and *CSM members only* posting an acceptance of it. This has the side-benefit of getting all the current issues to be submitted in one clear place separate of the discussions still taking place on other topics so that all pilots can see what we are taking forward.

IZ

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:31:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 09/06/2008 14:39:18
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.


I would concur with this, despite my UK base I have long experience of world-wide online meetings (and the innate difficulty in scheduling them) but when it is known that two of the CSM are US-based then it is unreasonable to intentionally schedule a meeting they cannot be present at.

The timezones the current 'CSM 9' are in are, I believe, CDT, BST(GMT+1) and EDT so there is a six hours gap. This is very clearly a problem on a weekday (due to school / college / work / etc), thus an actual 'meeting' might not be the right way to proceed (midnight European being 6pm East Coast is the nearest to a possible time and is still very imperfect) so maybe a thread on the unused-so-far 'Proclamations' forum is the right way to go here, with each Council member posting their submission as a new thread and *CSM members only* posting an acceptance of it. This has the side-benefit of getting all the current issues to be submitted in one clear place separate of the discussions still taking place on other topics so that all pilots can see what we are taking forward.

IZ


I like this. Puts everything into easily-logged text format, and avoids scheduling issues.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:34:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
Logserver exploitation and Bacon

Bacon (and similar programs) wont work anymore after EA has been deployed...

Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 17:47:00 - [17]
 

If someone would support minmatar capital review or maybe minmatar bs and above review that be great, because they are really terrible.

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2008.06.10 22:01:00 - [18]
 

Cleaned, please stay on topic and attempt to discuss the issues at hand without resorting to personal insults.

Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Delegated to: Jade Constantine
CSM should vote for its own chairman



How on earth does this make sense. It's like asking a president about to get impeached if impeaching should be allowed. This should be delegated to someone that isn't GS/you/people you muted

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Orion Moonstar
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Delegated to: Jade Constantine
CSM should vote for its own chairman



How on earth does this make sense. It's like asking a president about to get impeached if impeaching should be allowed. This should be delegated to someone that isn't GS/you/people you muted


How about the fact I want to measure to get through? I want it written into the constitution and I want to make sure all future CSM Chairs are elected by the committee. Kinda gives me a decent motive to make it happen doncha think?

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:24:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.




Someone seems to have conveniently overlooked this comment.

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
How about the fact I want to measure to get through? I want it written into the constitution and I want to make sure all future CSM Chairs are elected by the committee. Kinda gives me a decent motive to make it happen doncha think?

That's not the point being made.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:27:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.




Someone seems to have conveniently overlooked this comment.


Sorry Darius, couldn't find a way to do it this time. Still, we do have two meetings this week, I'm just posting up the details of the sunday one where you can bring up your votes and motions and whatnot. As we all agreed last week this mid-week one is for confirming the issues are properly documented and sent to Ank. Make sure you get yours done and emailed by the deadline on thursday and all well.

Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:29:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.




Someone seems to have conveniently overlooked this comment.


Sorry Darius, couldn't find a way to do it this time. Still, we do have two meetings this week, I'm just posting up the details of the sunday one where you can bring up your votes and motions and whatnot. As we all agreed last week this mid-week one is for confirming the issues are properly documented and sent to Ank. Make sure you get yours done and emailed by the deadline on thursday and all well.



so why not have them saturday/sunday? how does it make any sense to not allow the elected members to participate?

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:30:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
I believe these meetings are supposed to be scheduled in such a way that all may attend. 4pm East Coast US time on a week day is typically during the work day. I'm going to ask that you reschedule for a time when all of the elected representatives can attend.




Someone seems to have conveniently overlooked this comment.


Sorry Darius, couldn't find a way to do it this time. Still, we do have two meetings this week, I'm just posting up the details of the sunday one where you can bring up your votes and motions and whatnot. As we all agreed last week this mid-week one is for confirming the issues are properly documented and sent to Ank. Make sure you get yours done and emailed by the deadline on thursday and all well.


I never agreed to this meeting. It was scheduled so that American attendees could not make it. This is actually your second attempt at this. Should I re-forward you the note from CCP regarding meeting scheduling from the last time?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:33:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Aprudena Gist

so why not have them saturday/sunday? how does it make any sense to not allow the elected members to participate?


We're having one on Sunday.

This thursday one is a sign-off meeting to ensure we've got relevant documentation agreed for all the ISSUEs submission templates we're taking to Iceland (agreed from the previous weeks). They need to be bundled up and sent to CCP by ANK by thursday evening at the latest. The meeting in this case is a formality to let us sort out the last issues and double check everyone has done their stuff.

If we had to wait till sunday we'd be flying to Iceland with no Issues to discuss.

While I can understand that might make Darius' workload a little easier its probably not the best use of our time or CCP's ISK. Very Happy


Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:36:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Aprudena Gist

so why not have them saturday/sunday? how does it make any sense to not allow the elected members to participate?


We're having one on Sunday.

This thursday one is a sign-off meeting to ensure we've got relevant documentation agreed for all the ISSUEs submission templates we're taking to Iceland (agreed from the previous weeks). They need to be bundled up and sent to CCP by ANK by thursday evening at the latest. The meeting in this case is a formality to let us sort out the last issues and double check everyone has done their stuff.

If we had to wait till sunday we'd be flying to Iceland with no Issues to discuss.

While I can understand that might make Darius' workload a little easier its probably not the best use of our time or CCP's ISK. Very Happy




i guess if all your trying to do is steal votes sure.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:38:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
The meeting in this case is a formality to let us sort out the last issues and double check everyone has done their stuff.



in that case why aren't all the issues posted in the Proclamations forum for everyone to see?

As long as they are all there with the relevant CSM reps commenting, I see no point to this meeting.

oh, and as an alternate I again will be unavailable due to timezone issues.

Chalion
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:45:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Chalion on 11/06/2008 01:02:33
removed stupidity.

HClChicken
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.06.11 01:31:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Aprudena Gist

so why not have them saturday/sunday? how does it make any sense to not allow the elected members to participate?


We're having one on Sunday.

This thursday one is a sign-off meeting to ensure we've got relevant documentation agreed for all the ISSUEs submission templates we're taking to Iceland (agreed from the previous weeks). They need to be bundled up and sent to CCP by ANK by thursday evening at the latest. The meeting in this case is a formality to let us sort out the last issues and double check everyone has done their stuff.

If we had to wait till sunday we'd be flying to Iceland with no Issues to discuss.

While I can understand that might make Darius' workload a little easier its probably not the best use of our time or CCP's ISK. Very Happy




It's not a question of making a workload esier, it's that you continually schedule meetings that conflict with at least two delegates, and one alternate. There could be more than this, but as far as I know you are forcing 2 elected delegates to skip out of their paying job, or visiting time with their family so you can get an extra hour of sleep. The meeting doesn't have to wait until sunday, and when you are unyielding to the other delegates needs it shows how well you are at doing your primary job of CSM, that of scheduling meetings. If you can't get that right, then how can you do the secondary job, that you gave yourself, of moderation?


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