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blankseplocked The most simple way to balance PvP
 
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SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 20:51:00 - [1]
 

Remove MWD's and Webs, buff frigate and cruiser sized AB's

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:10:00 - [2]
 

Horrible Idea.

Without webs, how would battleships be able to WTFBBQ cruisers and smaller?

Without MWD's, missiles could actually hurt nano-ships a little bit.

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:12:00 - [3]
 

I believe you may have unknowingly made my point

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:15:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Extraction Drone on 06/06/2008 21:16:39

Oh yeah? Well nutz

MWD's and webs are to deeply rooted into the modern Eve-players' tactics and fitting choices, removing them would only *anger* players off.

Many ships have been designed around the use of MWD's, and Webs!

interceptors and two of the Marauder's come to mind, and the thorax, and Minmatar recons and EAF.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:15:00 - [5]
 

but what of ze huginn and rapier...

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:20:00 - [6]
 

They would need a fundamental redesign its true, but they could still be completely viable and useful ships.

Also, maybe make the minmatar EW tracking disruption with combined speed bonuses, and buff how NOS works for amarr recons and remove the tracking disruption bonus from racial Amarr EW

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: SonOf X51
*snip* ...remove the tracking disruption bonus from racial Amarr EW


Oh yeah smart guy, what about the Arbitrator? It won't have a Tier 1 EW bonus anymore.

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:23:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Extraction Drone
Originally by: SonOf X51
*snip* ...remove the tracking disruption bonus from racial Amarr EW


Oh yeah smart guy, what about the Arbitrator? It won't have a Tier 1 EW bonus anymore.


Maybe it should receive a miniature Cap warfare bonus, to Nos and Neuts. Then Amarr would be a pure Cap warfare race for their racial EW.

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:26:00 - [9]
 

The real question is, what do you have against MWD's and Webs?

Did they hurt you when you were little? Maybe teased you at school?

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:34:00 - [10]
 

They are both mandatory for PvP that doesn't involve laggy fleets or boring and stupid gate-camps.

In general, the speed of ships are considered and weighted by players for what those speeds will be with a MWD active.

In general, frigates and most cruisers must consider what their survivability will be when under the influence of a web. Web almost always equals death. So players seek to avoid being webbed, leading to ever evolving existence, almost dominance, of nano-fittings.

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:36:00 - [11]
 

This is EVE, adapt or go play WOW

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:42:00 - [12]
 

This is not what EVE should be.

The game would be much richer if range meant something and well rounded setups were worthwhile, and smaller ships could confidently engage larger targets without knowing that it meant instant destruction.

Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:55:00 - [13]
 

Easier solution: pick one ship and thats the only ship anyone can fly.

Shiv Ertai
Posted - 2008.06.07 00:46:00 - [14]
 

I can't help but think the two arguing above are alts of each other. My first look at the screen was like 'WTF this guy has 10 posts in a row'

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.07 00:53:00 - [15]
 

No, the simplest way to balance PVP is to implement pure RPS gameplay - my rock will kick your scissory ass any day of the week. Best part about this suggestion is that it actually makes more sense than the OP.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.06.07 01:09:00 - [16]
 

Nah here's a better one, every weekend, one of the racial factions gets double XP weekend, multiplying your SP gain by 100%.

Also my XBL tag is XxRazorBladexX if you want to discuss it, la~

SonOf X51
Posted - 2008.06.10 21:31:00 - [17]
 

Just think about it for a moment, truely consider it.

What would gameplay be like if you removed MWD's and Webs from the game?
What if both were just less powerful than they currently are?

Ilvan
Gallente
Post with your Brain
Posted - 2008.06.10 21:55:00 - [18]
 

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time.

Maybe not remove them entirely, but rework the math so that they're not the mandatory, broken pieces of **** they are now.

VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
Posted - 2008.06.11 03:34:00 - [19]
 

I agree with the OP.

Essentially, the current system has caused there to be only TWO major styles of play, around which everything else is planned. Style One: web the other guy. Style Two: Avoid being webbed. These are the first and all too often only tactical considerations of any engagement. Currently, there is a complete stalemate between the two styles. Each side is frustrated and is venting its frustration by calling for nerfs of the opposing style, when all both sides really want is some friggin' excitement for a change.

Imagine a different scenario. Imagine ships actually able to move around each other. Flanking, dodging, acting in formations, performing complex tactical maneuvers. Battleships slugging it out amongst themselves, while Frigates weave and wind between them in their own lethal dance. True dogfights. Nothing like that is currently possible. And it's because we are all either webbed, trying to web, or avoiding the web.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.06.11 06:27:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: VJ Maverick
I agree with the OP.

Essentially, the current system has caused there to be only TWO major styles of play, around which everything else is planned. Style One: web the other guy. Style Two: Avoid being webbed. These are the first and all too often only tactical considerations of any engagement. Currently, there is a complete stalemate between the two styles. Each side is frustrated and is venting its frustration by calling for nerfs of the opposing style, when all both sides really want is some friggin' excitement for a change.

Imagine a different scenario. Imagine ships actually able to move around each other. Flanking, dodging, acting in formations, performing complex tactical maneuvers. Battleships slugging it out amongst themselves, while Frigates weave and wind between them in their own lethal dance. True dogfights. Nothing like that is currently possible. And it's because we are all either webbed, trying to web, or avoiding the web.


That's because no one cares about romantic battles, counter-flanking and recreating the battle of waterloo--they care about winning fights and not losing ships for ideological nonsense that has no practical benefit. Combat means web, focus fire, repeat. Big, 200+ fights aren't supported exceptionally well anyway. Given how most romaing gangs are going to be close range fits, the question is not, how can I flank this guy but do I have the ability to call the right targets when our ships collide with theirs?

Right now the metagame is quite complex in 0.0 with tactical use of dictors and the prevalence of speed builds but its hardly an impossible barrier to entry. You may disagree that the tactical side is too simple but that is less a consequence of the game being simple than it is a limitation of the UI spaceship movement and having the pilots with the right skills and ships in the right time and place.

Extraction Drone
Posted - 2008.06.12 18:34:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: SonOf X51
Just think about it for a moment, truely consider it.

What would gameplay be like if you removed MWD's and Webs from the game?
What if both were just less powerful than they currently are?


Just Horrible.

If people weren't zipping around, try to web each other, all nano-fitted or sniper fitted, then players would actually try to balance tank, range, and gank in their setups. What players really want is quake with spaceships, and that is what eve should be.

All active-tanking modules should be removed from the game. Then it would be easy for players to just outfit their ships based on Effective HP and DPS. Just like FPS's. Woo!


 

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