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Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:28:00 - [1]
 

I figure something so obvious and basic must have been discussed to death, so I feel rather spiteful that I am the one talking about it now.. I regret wasting anyones time and apologize for being really ****ed off about the situation. If it has not been addressed by now I feel personally that CCP just doesn't care enough about the accidents to properly and fairly fix it.

My issue is thieves in deadspace mission areas (mostly in empire), and the accidental concord deaths which often occur. My simple and seemingly logical fix to such a miserably frustrating problem, is code acceleration gates to exclude pilots not in the fleet which formed for the mission, except perhapses with the use of a hacker card. An even more acceptable solution I think would be to auto flag any non mission fleet pilot as hostile to every fleet member... both in conjunction would be awsome.

Now I know code already exists for acceleration gates to be secure in various degrees, I figure hostility flags triggered by gates can't be that hard to pull together..

If I loose one more ship to concord because I wanted to help a fleet/corp mate, or have to suffer one more thief invading my L4 or L5 missions; my carebear, mission running, PvE loving ass is heading somewheres else to spend money.

I thank you for your attention.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:51:00 - [2]
 

actually setting a lock on the deadspace gates as you go through so non-fleet members have to hack it open sounds like a really cool idea. still allows piracy but has a great rp bonus. also making drones unscannable when in deadspace would help. deadspace is hard to scan down signatures for but deploy drones and you can be found in minutes.

Gwenvahar
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:00:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Gwenvahar on 06/06/2008 17:00:21
Not being an explorer or 'scanner proficient' besides drones by what means can deadspace be discovered? And if scanning drones is the giveaway, then yes I strongly agree that drone signatures should be cloaked inside deadspace.

Arkanjuca
D00M.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:07:00 - [4]
 

Encounters have no gates, so... You will still get robbed...

Better find somewhere else to spend your money.

(I love those threats, gimme what i want or i will leave Crying or Very sad)

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:19:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Arkanjuca
Encounters have no gates, so... You will still get robbed...

Better find somewhere else to spend your money.

(I love those threats, gimme what i want or i will leave Crying or Very sad)



Fool I made no mention of encounter space did I? And to suggest that the rules of engagement in empire space are 'not' slanted in a way that gets the righteous and innocent killed for wanting to do the right thing, makes you ignorant or a troll.. And I'm in a mood to go troll hunting, so bring it prick.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Originally by: Arkanjuca
Encounters have no gates, so... You will still get robbed...

Better find somewhere else to spend your money.

(I love those threats, gimme what i want or i will leave Crying or Very sad)



Fool I made no mention of encounter space did I? And to suggest that the rules of engagement in empire space are 'not' slanted in a way that gets the righteous and innocent killed for wanting to do the right thing, makes you ignorant or a troll.. And I'm in a mood to go troll hunting, so bring it prick.
So what that innocents get robbed and killed ?
Life is not fair and nor is eve. And you know why ? Because eve is a sandbox. If ppl would want to be nice to everyone, then u could travel to every single 0.0, rat, trade and don't care about beeing shoot.
But ppl are not nice by nature so we got eve as it is. If you want this changed, change ppl not mechanics.

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:31:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Originally by: Arkanjuca
Encounters have no gates, so... You will still get robbed...

Better find somewhere else to spend your money.

(I love those threats, gimme what i want or i will leave Crying or Very sad)



Fool I made no mention of encounter space did I? And to suggest that the rules of engagement in empire space are 'not' slanted in a way that gets the righteous and innocent killed for wanting to do the right thing, makes you ignorant or a troll.. And I'm in a mood to go troll hunting, so bring it prick.
So what that innocents get robbed and killed ?
Life is not fair and nor is eve. And you know why ? Because eve is a sandbox. If ppl would want to be nice to everyone, then u could travel to every single 0.0, rat, trade and don't care about beeing shoot.
But ppl are not nice by nature so we got eve as it is. If you want this changed, change ppl not mechanics.


In eve I am promised an environment in which I can play at whatever level I want to. I want to run missions with my mates and screw the rest of it, I hate mining, PvP is a drag and always a loosing game if you've no support, and I can't care less about the impending faction PvP in empire.

Missions in deadspace should be protected from harassment, at least the rules of engagement in deadspace should be fair such that concord can't get involved, or pirates have to work harder, or mission fleets can protect themselves and their loot properly.. That is not too much to ask.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:35:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 06/06/2008 17:36:44
Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Originally by: Arkanjuca
Encounters have no gates, so... You will still get robbed...

Better find somewhere else to spend your money.

(I love those threats, gimme what i want or i will leave Crying or Very sad)



Fool I made no mention of encounter space did I? And to suggest that the rules of engagement in empire space are 'not' slanted in a way that gets the righteous and innocent killed for wanting to do the right thing, makes you ignorant or a troll.. And I'm in a mood to go troll hunting, so bring it prick.
So what that innocents get robbed and killed ?
Life is not fair and nor is eve. And you know why ? Because eve is a sandbox. If ppl would want to be nice to everyone, then u could travel to every single 0.0, rat, trade and don't care about beeing shoot.
But ppl are not nice by nature so we got eve as it is. If you want this changed, change ppl not mechanics.


In eve I am promised an environment in which I can play at whatever level I want to. I want to run missions with my mates and screw the rest of it, I hate mining, PvP is a drag and always a loosing game if you've no support, and I can't care less about the impending faction PvP in empire.

Missions in deadspace should be protected from harassment, at least the rules of engagement in deadspace should be fair such that concord can't get involved, or pirates have to work harder, or mission fleets can protect themselves and their loot properly.. That is not too much to ask.
So loot while you are flying, if he touch anything from your can then you will gain 15 minutes killrights on him (unsure did they make it be triggered by salvage too) so you can simply whack this guy and loot his wreck. Compare it to real world, if you will leave your orange soda withour protection, then someone lets say named D. can drink it, but if you will watchit or better drink it immediatly, no one can steal it because you will propably kick his ass to oblivion.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:45:00 - [9]
 

I was actually reading stuff, and was like Ok, maybe a good point... etc...etc... etc.. until I got to this:

Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
If I loose one more ship to concord because I wanted to help a fleet/corp mate, or have to suffer one more thief invading my L4 or L5 missions; my carebear, mission running, PvE loving ass is heading somewheres else to spend money.


Come on, like this ever works? Does it ever work? Have you seen it ever working? Did any EVE problem ever got solved because someone played ultimatum game with CCP on forums?

Whatever - I agree that "SOMETHING" needs to be done about the High Sec robing that is going on at the moment... not sure what.... but I would concede that point, other than that, your post is a whine.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:59:00 - [10]
 

dear concord,
please stop shooting my friends when we mission together. you can tell they are friendly by the little purple symbol in my fleet chat.

thanks

that is kinda how i read the op. it is seriously anoyying in missions.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.06 18:02:00 - [11]
 

Not to invoke "The MMO That Shall Not Be Named", but I originally thought that Deadspace mission areas were the Eve version of an "instance".

That was until I found out that anyone can probe for you, wind up at the accel gate, and find their way into your own private mission space.

It would be nice and simple, to say that gates are keyed for the mission runner and their groupmates. Or even easier to say that you can't scan for people inside a Deadspace at all. Then you won't have any more mission theft, and those poor deprived Pirates will have to find their jollies in other ways.
Like Miner flipping, or bait canning, or heaven forbid they should go play with each other and see who wins.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.06.06 18:18:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Not to invoke "The MMO That Shall Not Be Named", but I originally thought that Deadspace mission areas were the Eve version of an "instance".

That was until I found out that anyone can probe for you, wind up at the accel gate, and find their way into your own private mission space.

It would be nice and simple, to say that gates are keyed for the mission runner and their groupmates. Or even easier to say that you can't scan for people inside a Deadspace at all. Then you won't have any more mission theft, and those poor deprived Pirates will have to find their jollies in other ways.
Like Miner flipping, or bait canning, or heaven forbid they should go play with each other and see who wins.


Then what is the point of the non-instanced instance? Oh, and imagine that, a war target would hide inside the Dead Space pocket, all the while no one can scan him down, or if they can, they can not enter the DS pocket because some people want a single player game.... get a bloody grip......


As someone suggested above: it should take skill to break the DS gate, fine, I will concede the point, again, that yes, mission runners should be protected from highway robbery that is currently going on, but only inasmuch as it stays within the EVE spirit.

Yes, mission runners are currently at a disadvantage when it comes to being robed by anyone smart enough to create a noob alt and train up a bit. Ok, make DS gates coded to a mission runner and his mates, and allow that gate to be hacked..... going to be difficult, really difficult, because how would you determine when and how the gate is getting hacked, etc...

Anyway, sorry about ya all Freelancer/Privateer 2 etc... game players who thought EVE is a single player universe with an open "chat" system. This issue will get fixed, I am sure, but I am also sure that it will get fixed by CCP in such a way that it will cause even more mission runner deaths than before...

Just like they fixed the Criminal Flagging & Can Flipping, now even more of you come here on forums and whine how unfair it is that you engage a thief and then get ganked by him in your mining barge.

So, in other words...

BEWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE ASKING

remember the "Jet Can" & "Criminal Flag" fiasco that befell all the whiners who were screaming about loosing their precious ore.

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 18:28:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Millicent Wrothriel on 06/06/2008 18:32:55
In regards to loot as you go, my solutions remain viable. Either make thieves work alot harder to get in at all, turn off concord involvement in deadspace, and/or flag as hostile any pilot not in the mission holders fleet as they enter the deadspece. Simple, sweet, covers all circumstances,and promotes non abusive play by pilots who manipulate rules of engagement to get the honest player killed.

As for what may be a whine or an expression of deep frustration, if not allowed to express myself it'd be all the worse for everyone as I truly exploded in some incoherent rant on the forums. I wasn't interested in posting at all as I lack any confidence in CCP to address the issue. The GM I was talking to insisted it was the only way a change such as I am suggesting could even be considered.

On the point of careful of what you wish for.. I find that in my circumstances, the thing we (my mates and I) hate most is concord killing the innocent while addressing invaders on a mission deadspace full of NPC's shooting at us too... Autolock shouldn't exist in my opinion.

Also I point out again that my focus is on agent mission spawned deadspace. General DS Complexes, encounter space, or any general purpose activity in open space should be held to the general engagement policies.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.06 19:39:00 - [14]
 

First, CCP specifically made it easier to find your deadspace and mission areas. They have said repeatedly that deadspace missions will never be locked or restricted. Even the new FW missions aren't. No place in Eve is safe; not even in your missions.

Second, CCP has repeatedly said that it is intended behavior that someone can enter your mission area and steal your stuff. Aggro rules give you the right to shoot back if they do.

THird, it is NOT theft to salvage something that someone else killed. CCP has said this many times. Concord places no "value" on salvage hence will not intervene. This is intended game mechanics and isn't going to change according to posts from CCP.

Recommendation: Move away from your crowded mission area and run missions where there are fewer scavengers lurking around. It is not easy to find a single mission runner in a system where you don't have a lot of bookmarks from all the previous successes.

If you refuse to heed that advise can I have your stuff since you aren't going to get what you are asking for and will be quitting anyways?

Sunwillow Auryn
Posted - 2008.06.06 19:56:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
First, CCP specifically made it easier to find your deadspace and mission areas. They have said repeatedly that deadspace missions will never be locked or restricted. Even the new FW missions aren't. No place in Eve is safe; not even in your missions.

Second, CCP has repeatedly said that it is intended behavior that someone can enter your mission area and steal your stuff. Aggro rules give you the right to shoot back if they do.

THird, it is NOT theft to salvage something that someone else killed. CCP has said this many times. Concord places no "value" on salvage hence will not intervene. This is intended game mechanics and isn't going to change according to posts from CCP.

Recommendation: Move away from your crowded mission area and run missions where there are fewer scavengers lurking around. It is not easy to find a single mission runner in a system where you don't have a lot of bookmarks from all the previous successes.

If you refuse to heed that advise can I have your stuff since you aren't going to get what you are asking for and will be quitting anyways?


Actually, i think the OP's point is not about the theft - it's about a gang coming into mission space that her gang is clearing, and rather than being aggro to her gang, they only aggro the main mission runner or owner of a specific wreck. Therefore, if she and her friends jumpin to help out the person being 'hit on' by the bad guys, they are the ones who get ConCordokkened, rather than the bad guys.

She is not saying, lock the gates, she's not saying make it safer, she is not saying, make it instanced. What she IS just saying, is let her fight back and do PvP properly rather than let the bad guys get away with exploiting still more loopholes in the game's hostility settings.

At least that's how I read it - I make no claim to being a mind-reader :)

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 20:03:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
First, CCP specifically made it easier to find your deadspace and mission areas. They have said repeatedly that deadspace missions will never be locked or restricted. Even the new FW missions aren't. No place in Eve is safe; not even in your missions.

Second, CCP has repeatedly said that it is intended behavior that someone can enter your mission area and steal your stuff. Aggro rules give you the right to shoot back if they do.

THird, it is NOT theft to salvage something that someone else killed. CCP has said this many times. Concord places no "value" on salvage hence will not intervene. This is intended game mechanics and isn't going to change according to posts from CCP.

Recommendation: Move away from your crowded mission area and run missions where there are fewer scavengers lurking around. It is not easy to find a single mission runner in a system where you don't have a lot of bookmarks from all the previous successes.

If you refuse to heed that advise can I have your stuff since you aren't going to get what you are asking for and will be quitting anyways?


I concede that it is CCP's prerogative to do that, if not true to the spirit of what EvE 'should' offer, nor to the business principle of giving the people what they want.. I will however still fight for at least the right to operate on equal terms inside deadspace and insist they remove concord from the equation.. Its deadspace, enter at own risk or something.. At the least we should all be able to agree on that much. Additionally I believe it's natural that DS acceleration gates become hackable, perhaps both ways. Such that an incoming fleet can have a Electronic Warfare Mod to lock the gate behind them for X number of minutes as T1, or the entire mission with T2 mods, hackable of coarse.. It promotes better play than how we just suffer the standard rules of engagement in non-standard circumstances, increases the functionality of role ships.

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.06 20:42:00 - [17]
 

Honestly if you allow pvp within mission areas all you will have achieved is lots of privateers go there and ganking mission fitted battleships for their loot.
If you prefer that anyways then i recommend running a losec mission agent, you can shoot what you like there with only minor ramifications to your sec status. If you wish no ramifications at all then go run missions for a pirate faction in 0.0, they pay great and you can sell the stuff from lp stores with quite a margin.

Gabbot
Gallente
Thanos and Killjoy Productions
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.06.06 20:43:00 - [18]
 

CCP alredy said that they were going to fix the problem.


heres the Linkage

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.06 21:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Shiken Kan
Honestly if you allow pvp within mission areas all you will have achieved is lots of privateers go there and ganking mission fitted battleships for their loot.
If you prefer that anyways then i recommend running a losec mission agent, you can shoot what you like there with only minor ramifications to your sec status. If you wish no ramifications at all then go run missions for a pirate faction in 0.0, they pay great and you can sell the stuff from lp stores with quite a margin.



I agree that such would be the case, when the issue is mission ownership.. suffer sneak thieves you can do nothing about, or expect gank squads to attack without restraint.. gee what a wonderful system.. I say my solutions set the balance; make gate entry an obstacle to invaders, stop concord from attacking the mission holder or their fleet, or flag invaders as hostile to everyone in the mission holders fleet. Any or all of these would make for a better experience dealing with intruders. I think these suggestions are simple and part of the code necessary already exists.

I personally would love for instanced PvE mission environments, provided they were easily supported by the servers. In all MMO's there are a large slice of users that just want to be friends against the game world. If they are forced into PvP, those rules should not prevent proper responses to threats and harassment. Concord does not respond till the shooting starts, and there is never any going back to fix any mistake. If you don't shoot in the right order the fight is over before it begins, if you don't shoot at all you loose isk and in most cases self respect.

As for moving to low sec, it's just not for me.. I can't abide PvP in EvE. I haven't the patience, skill or the resources to do it. In every PvP encounter I have lost was due to a rules of engagement technicality or overwhelming odds.

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Posted - 2008.06.07 03:22:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: JVol on 07/06/2008 03:22:50
The OP, and the supporters of this thread kinda make me throw up a little... Don't get me wrong, I love you guys being in the game, as your refusal to adapt to Eve in general makes you part of my livelhood.


If your being shot by concord because you cant agress a loot thief that a gangmate has agro on, I suggest you all form an actual corp and step out of your noob corp. Some of you have been there for years, Id like to see a 6 month time limit to being in a noob corp then you transition to a war decable npc 'vets corp'. A mission buster would be agrod to your whole corp and solve most of the 'problems' you seem to have.

You dont have to do pvp in eve, 99% of the time, (in empire) you have a choice to engage or not. If your losing ships to concord you are making the same mistake over, and over and over, STOP whatever you are doing . wtf should ccp do to cure your lameness? Nothing, except hold you out as an example to the other carebears as 'what NOT to do'. While Id love to hear from the carebears who HAVE adapted, im sure they are out making far to much isk to give a crap about your whines.

Have logistic ships on standby, when you get an agro target, send a guy to switch out and support you. Fit an omni tank when you rat, and have a point. With a few of you in ravens running these missions you should STILL be able to rock them, and they might actualy be challenging for you as opposed to the yawnfest iskfarmathon your used to. Make yourself a bit tougher to take down, a bit more bite and you'll find a good portion of the 'griefers' will move on to softer targets.

Mission busters... Fun profession, I'd like to see it get tougher tho, just to keep the wannabe's out of it. Its far too easy to do atm IMO, I agree that getting into the missions SHOULD be tougher ( I like the hacking ides ). Non scannable wont work as there would be too many exploits available with a hideout like that in empire.


In short, dont agro if your not prepared, and if youd always be prepared, you'd get much less attention from.... the guys you dont want any attention from.




Efdi
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.07 04:27:00 - [21]
 

Oh, God, please get rid of Concord in deadspace. Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. I can't think of any reason why that would be a bad idea. At all. Twisted Evil

Ignescens
Posted - 2008.06.07 05:18:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Ignescens on 07/06/2008 05:23:59
they way i see it the NPCers are at the advantage.

1) thieves have to be next to a wreck to loot it. pop the wrecks as he tries. he will get bored VERY quickly. he cant use tractor beams either (seems like CCP is on your side atm...)
2) if a thief enters the DS, send one gang member back to bring a tractoring destroyer in, and start looting straight away. if youre in a gang this should be no problem.
3) JOIN A FUDGING CORP ***HAT. solves all of your concord problems in the first place. THIS is how CCP intended the theft aggro mechanics to work.

locking and hacking acceleration gates sounds very cool though and i support that.

but i just think its selfish of the OP to demand some form of change to benefit them when they arent prepared to change themselves.

youll find it all over these forums son. adapting is a part of playing EVE.

edit: now if you were in a real corp, and some gang of mission busters scan down your mission, you are in the perfect position to get some free kills.
get one of your mates in a blackbird asap and engage the flagged looter. it really is not that hard, as you need caldari cruiser III to fly a raven anyway ;]

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.11 11:44:00 - [23]
 

Again, insults about my corp or personal ability are without merit. All I really want, what I think we all deserve, is the ability to respond realistically to threats. In empire, concord kills more innocent than guilty pilots anymore. If someone steals from a player, they stole from the entire corp. Cans, kills, wrecks, it should all be the same. If its not your mission, fooling with it will agro not just the individual pilot but his whole corp. Shoot a mission target, loot a can, salvage a wrek, get ganked by angry corp. That's how it ought to work in empire.

The changes I'd have to make to my play would not deal with unbalanced concord rules and would pretty much drive me away from eve. I do not wish to participate in PvP, I am very happy to fly endless missions with my corp mates. From my view PvP follow 2 simple rules, in 1 on 1 with equal ships, he who shoots first usually wins, and in mass combat those who have the bigger blob usually wins. I want to have the ability to properly respond to threats like thieves without risk of destruction by concord for doing their job for them. The thieves know they are operating under better protection than honest players and actively try and get the honest players killed on technicality. At the very least CCP should change their policy on replacing lost ships because of these issues.

From a business perspective, its so simple a concept, CCP must be making it overly complicated.

Ilvan
Gallente
Post with your Brain
Posted - 2008.06.11 12:03:00 - [24]
 

So... where do you usually mission? I ask purely to make conversation. YARRRR!!

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.06.11 12:17:00 - [25]
 

No instancing in my Eve.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.06.11 13:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Edited by: Millicent Wrothriel on 06/06/2008 18:32:55
In regards to loot as you go, my solutions remain viable. Either make thieves work alot harder to get in at all, turn off concord involvement in deadspace, and/or flag as hostile any pilot not in the mission holders fleet as they enter the deadspece. Simple, sweet, covers all circumstances,and promotes non abusive play by pilots who manipulate rules of engagement to get the honest player killed.



So, I form a gang with you and 2 friends. We go the the mission site, I kick you out of the gang and BOOM, you are flagged. Your suggestion doesn't hold water.
Same scenario, but you are the mission holder. I snatch the mission objective and ransom you for the item. I might lose out on a bit of isk, but you will either get a big standing hit or isk hit. Again, your fool proof plan has been circumvented. The "evil" players will always find a way.

Now, EvE is a sandbox game, as stated earlier. There is only 1 sandbox and 30.000 playing in it on average. Why should your little piece of the box be barred from the rest of the "kids"? No, it shouldn't. You either fight and hold your own little bit of the box, or you get pushed out of it, it is that simple.

Millicent Wrothriel
Posted - 2008.06.11 17:41:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Millicent Wrothriel on 11/06/2008 17:52:43
Edited by: Millicent Wrothriel on 11/06/2008 17:42:48
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Originally by: Millicent Wrothriel
Edited by: Millicent Wrothriel on 06/06/2008 18:32:55
In regards to loot as you go, my solutions remain viable. Either make thieves work alot harder to get in at all, turn off concord involvement in deadspace, and/or flag as hostile any pilot not in the mission holders fleet as they enter the deadspece. Simple, sweet, covers all circumstances,and promotes non abusive play by pilots who manipulate rules of engagement to get the honest player killed.



So, I form a gang with you and 2 friends. We go the the mission site, I kick you out of the gang and BOOM, you are flagged. Your suggestion doesn't hold water.
Same scenario, but you are the mission holder. I snatch the mission objective and ransom you for the item. I might lose out on a bit of isk, but you will either get a big standing hit or isk hit. Again, your fool proof plan has been circumvented. The "evil" players will always find a way.

Now, EvE is a sandbox game, as stated earlier. There is only 1 sandbox and 30.000 playing in it on average. Why should your little piece of the box be barred from the rest of the "kids"? No, it shouldn't. You either fight and hold your own little bit of the box, or you get pushed out of it, it is that simple.


Look I'm not saying my answers are all top shelf here. I am certainly not asking for completely secure instances. All I want, what I think we all want, is the ability to react realistically to a threat. If I'm in a gang and someone warps in fools with us inside a deadspace mission area, there ought to be more obstacles to the invader, not the defenders. If we can discuss that more instead of how all my ideas don't hold water it'd be a more productive thread.

I am sure there is a balanced solution which either satisfies completely the desire to react realistically, or removes the problem completely so it does not need to be addressed. In my mind that works 2 ways, auto flag or lock out. I accept its a sand box and in the sandbox if one fella comes by and kicks down a castle my friends spent alot of time helping work on, I shouldn't be the only one able to pick up a shovel in response.

And in regards to your specific example of kicking a fleet mate, in my version a fleet that warps in as a fleet wouldn't get a flag for being kicked from the fleet. Auto flag should only happen on warp in through the 1st gate. Now that isn't perfect either, but again my goal is the ability to react realistically to an invader. If you invite a douche to the fleet and he acts like a fool, I think you should be able to (Kick with Extreme Prejudice) Such that you flag the rest of the fleet as hostile to the one kicked.. So that their option then is to get the hell out fast, or face everyone should they 'continue' to provoke.. The thing I hate most is concord killing the innocent for doing what comes natural to most players, defend the space and your mates with 'every' resource available.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.06.11 18:01:00 - [28]
 

Is it really so unreasonble to ask for a criminal flag extend to gang members - i.e. if your gang member commits a crime YOU commit a crime. If a crime is committed against a gang member YOU can also intevene?

Let's face it - the simple fact that Concord refuses to recognize fleets and whatnot is the root cause of the OP's problem. If Concord exists ONLY to provide repercussions for actions and not your security then it stands to reason having a mechanism that allows one to better ensure their security is something that should be expected.


Horchan
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:56:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Derek Sigres
Is it really so unreasonble to ask for a criminal flag extend to gang members - i.e. if your gang member commits a crime YOU commit a crime. If a crime is committed against a gang member YOU can also intevene?

Let's face it - the simple fact that Concord refuses to recognize fleets and whatnot is the root cause of the OP's problem. If Concord exists ONLY to provide repercussions for actions and not your security then it stands to reason having a mechanism that allows one to better ensure their security is something that should be expected.




Yes, because it will inevitably lead to some variation on the Lofty29 scam.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.06.12 02:26:00 - [30]
 

There shall be no instances in EVE. This is a fundamental principle of the game: there are no absolutely safe places where nobody can get to you. As for Concord killing you -- stop making the same stupid mistakes! Red flashy = valid target. Is that so hard to remember?


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