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Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.06 15:54:00 - [1]
 

I read every now and again people talking about how new pilots arenít going to be able to compete in Eve. I think that is false. For one if we are talking ship on ship PVP well a 80 msp pilot isn't going to be able to bring 80 million skill points to the battle. It just means he can fly many different ships and perhaps 40 or even 50 million is wrapped up in Capital ships or specialized support ships or even industry etc. He can also fit the ships in any configuration but so can a 10 million or perhaps even 5 million specialized character. It really isn't that difficult, by 15 million skill points if a pilot specializes in his desires be it industry or combat he will do just fine in this game and kick the hell out of many people.

I have been beat by 5 million skill point Vexor pilot who specialized in his ship. Sure he couldn't change out and fly a battleship or command ship but what he flew he was really skilled in and experienced. Of course he most likely lost many ships learning and gaining experience, experience of the game is something new people will be lacking and that does give older players advantage but even this isn't insurmountable in a couple of months a new pilot will learn well enough. The point is the 5 million Vexor pilot trained well and learned his ship and his enemy and he beat my ass with millions and millions of skill points but being in a cruiser looking for a fight well I found one and all those skill points didnít make much difference. I mean I could have shown up in a Cerberus or Ishtar and made evil laughs but I didnít and he soundly whooped me.

How many of us that has been around a while having alts that we learn up to go and just kill stuff? Many of us do this. Only advantage we have is experience with the game and how to fit ships and train. But a good Corp will fix that for a new player even the newbie corps are a great source of information and annoyance too though haha. But highly experienced and good people are in those NPC corps that are in-between Corps or whatever the issue is that help new people all day long.

I just hate to see new people feel hopeless and it isn't it just takes a couple of months and you can have the same base skills that everyone else has and go have fun.

Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:43:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 06/06/2008 16:44:44
I know for a fact I that only 3M of my SP is used up in frigates alone...How long would it take to gain that....

I have 6M in gunery...but thats 2M for large, 2M fr Medium and 2M for small prox...

If I am in a frigate...I am only using 2M...so in fact I only have 5M SP...wen Im in a frig...

if you wanan go further...I have 1M in learning and that doesnt get used at all in combat, same with my corp management or social skills...o_O...

In short...you arnt using all SP all the time...

ANOther point is that I created an alt during revelation Char update boost, and with in 1 week I made over 100 kills in empire...thats high and lowsec, with barly 1M SP...

ANy new players complaining that they have are at a disadvantage becuas they dont have lots of SP...understand that EVE is a game base don how you deal with things and your RL skills and perception and initiative...if you are dieing all teh time..its becuase you Fail at life...and should stop trying...

It doesnt take long to plot a safe course or double check that its not a trap...





Apoctasy
Lethal Injection.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:51:00 - [3]
 

3 mil sp and I pvp. Later o/

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:53:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 06/06/2008 16:44:44
I know for a fact I that only 3M of my SP is used up in frigates alone...How long would it take to gain that....

I have 6M in gunery...but thats 2M for large, 2M fr Medium and 2M for small prox...

If I am in a frigate...I am only using 2M...so in fact I only have 5M SP...wen Im in a frig...

if you wanan go further...I have 1M in learning and that doesnt get used at all in combat, same with my corp management or social skills...o_O...

In short...you arnt using all SP all the time...

ANOther point is that I created an alt during revelation Char update boost, and with in 1 week I made over 100 kills in empire...thats high and lowsec, with barly 1M SP...

ANy new players complaining that they have are at a disadvantage becuas they dont have lots of SP...understand that EVE is a game base don how you deal with things and your RL skills and perception and initiative...if you are dieing all teh time..its becuase you Fail at life...and should stop trying...

It doesnt take long to plot a safe course or double check that its not a trap...







This is the best argument I've seen for all the SP *****es I've ever read. I will have to remember the way you cut right to the meat of it for future reference when I feel like responding constructively instead of asking if I can have peoples' stuff. Hats off to you, L.E.

Nariana Verex
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:54:00 - [5]
 

I have well over 20 million skillpoints, but it is because I branched out and developed industry, research, mining and combat instead of specializing.

New pilots can easily compete in EVE, I agree with you. You'd be surprised how much firepower a little frigate or a cruiser can bring if that new pilot is absolutely dedicated in maxing it to the max. To the max.

Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2008.06.06 16:59:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 06/06/2008 16:44:44
I know for a fact I that only 3M of my SP is used up in frigates alone...How long would it take to gain that....

I have 6M in gunery...but thats 2M for large, 2M fr Medium and 2M for small prox...

If I am in a frigate...I am only using 2M...so in fact I only have 5M SP...wen Im in a frig...

if you wanan go further...I have 1M in learning and that doesnt get used at all in combat, same with my corp management or social skills...o_O...

In short...you arnt using all SP all the time...

ANOther point is that I created an alt during revelation Char update boost, and with in 1 week I made over 100 kills in empire...thats high and lowsec, with barly 1M SP...

ANy new players complaining that they have are at a disadvantage becuas they dont have lots of SP...understand that EVE is a game base don how you deal with things and your RL skills and perception and initiative...if you are dieing all teh time..its becuase you Fail at life...and should stop trying...

It doesnt take long to plot a safe course or double check that its not a trap...







This is the best argument I've seen for all the SP *****es I've ever read. I will have to remember the way you cut right to the meat of it for future reference when I feel like responding constructively instead of asking if I can have peoples' stuff. Hats off to you, L.E.


Thanks...just fed up of new players using this as an excuse to justiy buying a vetted char....or a reason why they keep dieing and why this game is unfair...

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Nariana Verex
I have well over 20 million skillpoints, but it is because I branched out and developed industry, research, mining and combat instead of specializing.

New pilots can easily compete in EVE, I agree with you. You'd be surprised how much firepower a little frigate or a cruiser can bring if that new pilot is absolutely dedicated in maxing it to the max. To the max.


Agreed. Especially ganky cruisers like the Thorax or the Rupture. Thoraxes can do insane damage with a surprisingly moderate number of SP

Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power.
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:06:00 - [8]
 

New players simply don't have the REAL experience with the game to even make the determination whether they are at a disadvantage or not. I believe this is due, in part, to coming from other MMO's where your level is a direct indication of your relative strength to other players. A level 1 player has no chance against a level 5, and so on.

It is a misunderstanding of the differences between a SKILL based system and a LEVEL based system.

You really need to think differently in EVE, and until the new players gain that knowledge, they are going to froth at the mouth about how much of a "disadvantage" they have. The disadvantage, however, is one of REAL experience, not in-game training.

-Grid

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:43:00 - [9]
 

Good posts guys. The main thing to me is for experienced pilots to give information on this subject. 80 Million is still a 4 million frigate pilot period.

There is no need to turn away from an excellent game just because you aren't the highest skill point.

Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power.
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.06 17:53:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Spineker
Good posts guys. The main thing to me is for experienced pilots to give information on this subject. 80 Million is still a 4 million frigate pilot period.

There is no need to turn away from an excellent game just because you aren't the highest skill point.


Aye! One of my characters has 26,295,651 skill points. Of that, 16,750 is in "Gunnery". My highest spaceship command skill is "Gallente Cruiser" at level 3. A n00b in a starter frigate would send him running. :)

-Grid

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:09:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Khorvek on 06/06/2008 23:11:09
This is because frigates are sorely underestimated.

how many SP does it take to bring in a T1 frig as a newbie and triple nerf a Battleship? answer, <900k.

Now, these T1 frigs usually have great radar range, allowing them to stay a very safe distance from any ship with guns small enough to track it well.

The reason frigs aren't used but in "specific" situations in warfare is plain and simple.. people don't understand the value of EW mods on frigs.


Lets take something like a cruiser, and suppose you super tank it, and throw some EW modules on. those EW modules are taking up a mid/low slot, penalizing a larger ship a lot more for using it, than for a frig.

a 200k machine to neutralize the threat from a 180 mil machine. simple math says the above formula is a success for the side that brought 1 extra person who can use EW frigs.

The only reason people dont, is because newbies cant afford to keep blowing up frigs when they do get hit, and they dont want to die. Clones should be a clue, YOU'RE IMMORTAL IN THIS GAME.

then again, there's the elitist groups that wont take you unless you have a certain number of SPs, which means that they only further hurt themelves by denying themselves a 800k or so SP pilot who's needs are very cheap in comparison with the group, A t1 frig, some EW modules, and either shield or armor tank, or speed tank fitting.

But thats not all, if EW frigs get used, that gets the ball rolling for the use of OTHER frigs in combat, to deal with the EW frigs that are locking down Battleships' combat ability, so then you have to use destroyers to kill off incoming frigs/drones that are looking to take out your EW frigs.

And thus the circle of life is complete and no ship in the game is redundant or worthless, it all depends on how stubborn your corp is with its viewpoint about what ships to use/your minimum SP for engaging the enemy.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:16:00 - [12]
 

lol @ the stupid examples

the problem is, a 70m SP combat character isn't flying frigates. you will meet him in a maxed-out Astarte or Sleipnir or something like that, good luck if you have 5m SP ... ;-)



Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:28:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
lol @ the stupid examples

the problem is, a 70m SP combat character isn't flying frigates. you will meet him in a maxed-out Astarte or Sleipnir or something like that, good luck if you have 5m SP ... ;-)





Yes because those are all over low-sec space I mean they are so numerous you can just find them laying around.

Rolling Eyes

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:29:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 06/06/2008 23:31:33
Originally by: Pan Crastus
lol @ the stupid examples

the problem is, a 70m SP combat character isn't flying frigates. you will meet him in a maxed-out Astarte or Sleipnir or something like that, good luck if you have 5m SP ... ;-)


The bigger ship he sits in, the more likely he'll need a tackler.

Alot of people are underrating the t1 frigs. I can fly every combat pilot Amarr has (except titans, but I fly the other caps), and I fly them well. Yet some of my useful and preferred ships to fly is the t1 frig (executioner, suicide tackling-style), the interceptor (fast tackle, slight damage) or the interdictor (one of the best ships you can fly in 0.0, wanted in small as well as big groups, fast or slow, this ship is never bad to have in your gang).

It doesn't take much sp to train the above, and a young player can fly it just as well as I do. The difference is that I have access to the other ships as well, yes. But guess how often I fly my command ships? In the last 1.5 year I have hardly touched it. Apart from the fleet command ships (which preferably require alot of leadership skills, not very fun training for a chara that started with 3 charisma), they don't make much sense in 0.0 nor Empire. It's a low sec ship. Sleipnir might have a use in roams, it can get decent speed, but I'd rather pick a Zealot or Curse over Absolution in roams (or actually, I'd rather take a light dictor).

"..the grass is greener". That's exactly what it is. The SP doesn't do a huge difference. No really, it doesn't. The people above illustrated it quite well.

Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:46:00 - [15]
 

theres no correlation between a pilots skill points and their ability IMHO. Esp. with all the character sales these days.

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.06 23:50:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Khorvek on 06/06/2008 23:51:19
Originally by: Pan Crastus
lol @ the stupid examples

the problem is, a 70m SP combat character isn't flying frigates. you will meet him in a maxed-out Astarte or Sleipnir or something like that, good luck if you have 5m SP ... ;-)





Well, troll, for you and anyone else who's interested..

http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp

Go to the last page, ignore the names of the guns, and just set up stats for large turrets, then set a signature radius of a frigate, and put a decent transversal velocity based on frigate speed orbiting.

you'll find the DPS doesn't do quite so well, despite the large nature of the guns and ammo.

Next, try the weapon disruptor loaded with the tracking script on a Crucifier frigate with L3 Amarr frigate skill. you will get up to around 43% tracking speed reduction.

to make use of this, multiply the turret's tracking speed by .43, then take that answer and subtract it from the turrets tracking speed, and you have your new gimped tracking speed for a large turret.
then press calculate again.

you'll notice that there is effectively 1% chance to hit if the target is flying close, and if the target is within your optimal+falloff best point, it still has a much lower DPS and chance to hit than before the tracking disruptor.

The first guns you get in this simulator are 125 signature resolution, in other words, cruiser guns. even they fall prey to nasty DPS reduction and chance to hit vs a frig who's using EW and moving.

Now, the Crucifier can use 3 midslots, and it has a CPU of something like 245.

It can fit 3 weapon disruptor modules and keep them running full time as long as they are efficient with their cap, either through cap skills, or lowslot mods, or not shooting their guns all the time. they only need to do one of these to perma-run these disruptors.

I prefer a good tank setup in my lows, while not firing my guns all the time to preserve cap.

3 weapon disruptors on a frigate to nerf 3 different battleships. doesn't that sound like win to you?

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.06.07 00:14:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Khorvek

3 weapon disruptors on a frigate to nerf 3 different battleships. doesn't that sound like win to you?



No, that sounds like a 2 month old player trying to win under the assumption that his enemy is an NPC.

You do *not* stand a chance against a high SP player in a far superior ship by choosing your EW smartly and using a crappy ship. That was possible maybe 2-3 years ago.

Anyone with a brain will just pop your silly frig with 3 tracking disruptors, most people will just launch drones and go afk.

Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.07 00:27:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Khorvek

3 weapon disruptors on a frigate to nerf 3 different battleships. doesn't that sound like win to you?



No, that sounds like a 2 month old player trying to win under the assumption that his enemy is an NPC.

You do *not* stand a chance against a high SP player in a far superior ship by choosing your EW smartly and using a crappy ship. That was possible maybe 2-3 years ago.

Anyone with a brain will just pop your silly frig with 3 tracking disruptors, most people will just launch drones and go afk.



That assumes a straight-up 1v1 fight between two people who are both prepared to fight, which in my year of playing this game I have yet to see.

Low SP characters can run ewar frigs, they can tackle, and I guarantee you a blob of 7-10 900K SP rookies will kill any solo battlehip they come across if they're set up right.

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.07 01:45:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Khorvek

3 weapon disruptors on a frigate to nerf 3 different battleships. doesn't that sound like win to you?



No, that sounds like a 2 month old player trying to win under the assumption that his enemy is an NPC.

You do *not* stand a chance against a high SP player in a far superior ship by choosing your EW smartly and using a crappy ship. That was possible maybe 2-3 years ago.

Anyone with a brain will just pop your silly frig with 3 tracking disruptors, most people will just launch drones and go afk.



Well, you're assuming this is 1 frig vs 3 battleships then? if so, get your head out of your ass. the EW frig has a valuable place in gang combat, as I've illustrated.

if 3 people in battleships come in thinking to win, and you have just 1 of these EW frigs hitting all 3 with disruptors, and you have even a few other people with you, the battleships are going to die or run off.

Its nice to see that you think drones are godmode. I tend to eat enemy drones with my fast tracking low optimal range turrets. I set them up to do that on purpose fyi.

and if you look at the specs of the crucifier, it has a target range of 45k base. the target range of a weapon disruptor is ~40k, with ~20k falloff.

so you're sitting that far away from the fight, being a real support unit, while the hard hitters run in underneath the battleships' guns, and toast them.

Eve in an MMO. if you think that means 1v1 is the nature of the game, you're an idiot.

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2008.06.07 02:58:00 - [20]
 

Jesus....I leave the damn game for a year and look what is still going on??? When this toon was rolled up....it took me MONTHS to get where the new toons are five minutes into the game. Not to mention all the 'new missions' you can do to earn ISK...In my day, you did'nt have a friendly NPC offering you buckets of ISK! You had to go EARN it with mining laser! And did I forget to mention m0o was in empire space back then? Bunch of newbs in frigates minding our own bussness...Here comes m0o in cruisers...the biggest frecking ships we had seen in game yet! They blasted the hell out of the noobs at the belts! Then went on their way. What is that? No sentry guns...concord was a joke! Yeah keep whining, sorry cant powerlevel in this game. Enjoy the learning curveLaughing

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.06.07 03:10:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

Low SP characters can run ewar frigs, they can tackle, and I guarantee you a blob of 7-10 900K SP rookies will kill any solo battlehip they come across if they're set up right.


So 7-10 low SP characters equal 1 high SP character? Then I have nothing more to add to the subject (I agree).



Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2008.06.07 04:15:00 - [22]
 

There's just too many variables to assume the same result will occur all the time, especially when it comes to PvP

I have over 20M SP, and it's great fun to jump into a frigate and do battle with the rest of my corp, who are mostly under 5M SP by the way, but they do still have a blast, and while we are mainly an industrial mission corp they are all (I believe) training up for the Factional Warfare mod and that means they're hungry for combat, which is nice.

I'd rather have one low SP pilot who wants to be in a roaming gang or gate camp than 10 Battleship pilots who don't really want to be there and don't really care what happens as long as they keep their ship.

I think the best thing FW will do will be to change the mindset of the "hardcore" industrialist. The same people that can make ships and mods far cheaper than a pure combat trained player can.

When people realize it doesn't really hurt to wake up in a fresh clone once in a while, there will be less division between indi vs combat and likewise low SP - high SP.

The corps that have a minimum SP count usually do so to make sure the character is going to be sticking around for a while and know the basics of the game so they don't have to be spoon fed, of course it's not the only reason, but it's a good one a corp can have.

Big Al
The Aftermath
Posted - 2008.06.07 06:10:00 - [23]
 

My neuts, let me show you them.

You don't need high sp, you don't even need more than a few days after starting to be pretty effective. However, if you come up against an 80m sp character that knows how to fit and fly ships... you are probably going to have a problem.

After 20-30m of specialization pretty much everyone is going to be on a equal footing assuming they fly what they are specialized in. The luxury of high sp is that you can fly many different ships at the same specialization level to fill whatever role you are needed in.

The bane of high sp is that to fly cheap, disposable ships with a disposable clone is somewhat painful. Your base clone cost often exceeds the cost of the ship + fit.

Jeckes
Posted - 2008.06.07 06:18:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Jeckes on 07/06/2008 06:20:33
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Mankirks Wife

Low SP characters can run ewar frigs, they can tackle, and I guarantee you a blob of 7-10 900K SP rookies will kill any solo battlehip they come across if they're set up right.


So 7-10 low SP characters equal 1 high SP character? Then I have nothing more to add to the subject (I agree).





your stuffs, Kan I haev? Laughing

it only takes two newbie frigs to win. 1 ewars. other tackles. both fire til it pops. win.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.06.07 10:57:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jeckes
Edited by: Jeckes on 07/06/2008 06:20:33
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Mankirks Wife

Low SP characters can run ewar frigs, they can tackle, and I guarantee you a blob of 7-10 900K SP rookies will kill any solo battlehip they come across if they're set up right.


So 7-10 low SP characters equal 1 high SP character? Then I have nothing more to add to the subject (I agree).





your stuffs, Kan I haev? Laughing




I don't have stuff, it belongs to CCP apparently...

Quote:

it only takes two newbie frigs to win. 1 ewars. other tackles. both fire til it pops. win.


Win what? You can't even kill a properly fit T1 frigate with a competent pilot like that.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.07 13:27:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
I have 6M in gunery...but thats 2M for large, 2M fr Medium and 2M for small

In that case i would advice you it is about time to train motion prediction, rapid firing, etc.

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.08 02:19:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Khorvek on 08/06/2008 02:21:58


Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Jeckes
Edited by: Jeckes on 07/06/2008 06:20:33
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Mankirks Wife

Low SP characters can run ewar frigs, they can tackle, and I guarantee you a blob of 7-10 900K SP rookies will kill any solo battlehip they come across if they're set up right.


So 7-10 low SP characters equal 1 high SP character? Then I have nothing more to add to the subject (I agree).





your stuffs, Kan I haev? Laughing




I don't have stuff, it belongs to CCP apparently...

Quote:

it only takes two newbie frigs to win. 1 ewars. other tackles. both fire til it pops. win.


Win what? You can't even kill a properly fit T1 frigate with a competent pilot like that.



*sigh* look at it this way, lets say both sides are even and have 10 battleships each, they get into a fight, only 1 side decides to hire a newbie along as added muscle. and whats the cost of an EW setup frig with a newbie inside to them? about 500k-1 mil.

Now, lets say the other side didnt hire that same newbie because they think, like you, that A: newbies cant do anything, B: EW isn't that great.

All of the sudden, this newbie pilot sets -43% optimal and falloff on 3 battleships. What side to you think is now at an advantage?

If you can't understand the simple concept that many EW components run cheap and have low fitting requirements, thus making them intuitive to fit on frig sized vessels, who can support larger units in a fight while being unable to be hit by battleship sized guns themselves by A; being NOW outside the optimal+falloff range of the battleships due to the nerfing through EW and B; being a size of about 40-46m signature radius compared to the signature resolution of a battleship sized gun which is 400m, this little frigate is practically immune to damage now, while flying a safe 30-40k out providing support, then you need to relearn this game imo.

I told you to use this, and skip to page 5 and input relevant data, such as the gun resolution and the frigate radius to find out exactly how good it is.

http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp

CCP made it, and I would hope that their own graphical model of how a frigate is near damn unkillable to a battleship would correlate to in game results.

Let me put it another way. What do you see flying around gates in empire space? all battleships? or isn't it usually a mix of 1-3 battleships, 1-3 cruisers, and 2-4 frigates?

I hope you're a troll because I can't believe someone as dense as you exists.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.06.08 03:06:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Gridwalker
New players simply don't have the REAL experience with the game to even make the determination whether they are at a disadvantage or not. I believe this is due, in part, to coming from other MMO's where your level is a direct indication of your relative strength to other players. A level 1 player has no chance against a level 5, and so on.

It is a misunderstanding of the differences between a SKILL based system and a LEVEL based system.

You really need to think differently in EVE, and until the new players gain that knowledge, they are going to froth at the mouth about how much of a "disadvantage" they have. The disadvantage, however, is one of REAL experience, not in-game training.

-Grid


Exactly.

Like the buisness CEO a few weeks back who bought something like an 80 mil sp character and wanted to mission run in a Phoenix.

WTF?

You can stick somebody who's been PVP'ing for a week and somebody who's been doing it for 6 months into the same SP character and guess who is going to do better?

You can stick the 1 weeker into a character with twice the sp and will still have a fair chance of losing.

And also in other level based systems, bigger is NEVER always better. The little ships have more purposes and uses then much of the larger ones.

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.08 06:51:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Khorvek on 08/06/2008 06:53:44

well then, do you agree that a corp which can lose battleships on a daily basis can bolster their offensive power by hiring on someone brand new to Eve, giving them a frig with EW specs and modules, and telling them, "target the big red flashing boxes and press alt-f2-f4?

1 mil for the ships and mods, and I think the newbie would be glad to jump right into combat, as well as the fact that you get +1 more ship on the field..

-43% to optimal and falloff is bad for any ship of any size, and the cap pricetag of it means frigs can run these modules with little fuss.

or dampers, or tracking links for allied ships, or painters, or...

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.08 09:20:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Spineker
I read every now and again people talking about how new pilots arenít going to be able to compete in Eve. I think that is false. For one if we are talking ship on ship PVP well a 80 msp pilot isn't going to be able to bring 80 million skill points to the battle. It just means he can fly many different ships and perhaps 40 or even 50 million is wrapped up in Capital ships or specialized support ships or even industry etc. He can also fit the ships in any configuration but so can a 10 million or perhaps even 5 million specialized character. It really isn't that difficult, by 15 million skill points if a pilot specializes in his desires be it industry or combat he will do just fine in this game and kick the hell out of many people.

I have been beat by 5 million skill point Vexor pilot who specialized in his ship. Sure he couldn't change out and fly a battleship or command ship but what he flew he was really skilled in and experienced. Of course he most likely lost many ships learning and gaining experience, experience of the game is something new people will be lacking and that does give older players advantage but even this isn't insurmountable in a couple of months a new pilot will learn well enough. The point is the 5 million Vexor pilot trained well and learned his ship and his enemy and he beat my ass with millions and millions of skill points but being in a cruiser looking for a fight well I found one and all those skill points didnít make much difference. I mean I could have shown up in a Cerberus or Ishtar and made evil laughs but I didnít and he soundly whooped me.

How many of us that has been around a while having alts that we learn up to go and just kill stuff? Many of us do this. Only advantage we have is experience with the game and how to fit ships and train. But a good Corp will fix that for a new player even the newbie corps are a great source of information and annoyance too though haha. But highly experienced and good people are in those NPC corps that are in-between Corps or whatever the issue is that help new people all day long.

I just hate to see new people feel hopeless and it isn't it just takes a couple of months and you can have the same base skills that everyone else has and go have fun.


I've built alts with less than 200k SP, back in the day when new characters *really* had it rough and started with less than 90k SP. Now like today where you start out with almost a million. I killed TONs of players with my little 200k SP characters. All the time. Just to experiment with what I could do with as few SP as possible.

SP means relatively little if you're skilled enough and experienced enough as a player to get the most out of what you're doing.


 

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