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blankseplocked [Issue] T2 ammo needs to be redone
 
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Nariana Verex
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:21:00 - [31]
 

The short range ammo is almost universally obsolete in front of the availability of faction ammunition. T2 ammo definitely needs a look at... And the cost of Amarr T2 ammunition too, from personal experience, sometimes I spend as much on fitting the ammo as I do on the guns themselves.

And you can't split one faction crystal worth 4000 shots between 4 guns. You need four... At least let us be able to repair the special ammunition somewhat. [Like repair 20%, reduce max lifespan of the charge by 20%]

Zulu Six
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:25:00 - [32]
 


Talkuth Rel
Minmatar
Republic Military School

Posted - 2008.06.09 17:41:00 - [33]
 

T2 ammo definetely needs a look, as it stands the penalties are too prohibitive to see much use.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:36:00 - [34]
 

Yeah, T2 ammo should do something faction ammo doesn't already do. I don't care if it's webber missiles, long-range ammo(which is just fine as-is), high-tracking ammo, low-sig ammo, high-damage ammo with fewer stupid penalties(like, make them equivalent on cap to the highest-damage T1 ammo), or whatever, it shouldn't just be picking a few higher spots on the range vs damage curve, and punishing you greatly for using them.

Mori Felding
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.06.09 21:41:00 - [35]
 

Agreed, something needs doing about this.

El Yatta
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.06.09 23:06:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: El Yatta on 10/06/2008 23:45:46
Edited by: El Yatta on 09/06/2008 23:08:08
Keep long range T2 ammo (buff null and tremor a little bit with extra falloff)

Change all short range to -10% damage bonus (less than t1, more than 30% less than faction ammo) plus extra effects on your target:

Void: - Cap (e.g. 3 units for large)
Javelin: - ECM burst effect (e.g. 1 strength lock-break, no 20s jam)
Conflag: - + heat OR heat damage (first does nothing unless the enemy overloads, second would be quite strong over time) to random enemy slots.
Gleam: - Optimal and falloff, 10s.
Hail: - Speed 5s (e.g. -3%)
Quake: - Scan Res 10s (e.g. -15% e)
Rage: + Sig radius 20s (e.g. +20)
Fury: - Agility 10s (e.e.g -10%)

Balance penlaties (need to be similar to today but more lenient in certain cases). Where penalties conflict with the effect on an opponent, that should be removed (e.g. stupid to have sig radius bonus on a torp that has a big sig radius, why not use a normal torp).

Essentially eaech 2o effect is designed to give some advantage that the ships that usually use that weapon would like - blasteboats being able to have their target having cap trouble as well as them, AC boats, if they choose to close range, hurting their opponents speed.

Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.10 23:37:00 - [37]
 

T2 short range ammo is indeed in need of some love.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.11 13:54:00 - [38]
 

Rejoice, T2 ammunition have been changed. The BPO copy time has been increased so it is again above production time.

What, that is not the boost you were asking for? RazzLaughing

Well, it is what we get.

RedeyeAce
Caldari
Solar Revenue Service
Posted - 2008.06.11 14:48:00 - [39]
 

I think we all agree that the short range is pretty much useless and has been for a long while.. faction ammo :)

Yes definately needs to be rethinked

BlackDeej
Aquila Astralis

Posted - 2008.06.19 05:30:00 - [40]
 

I agree, T2 ammo needs some lovin'. With faction ammo giving (maybe) 90-95% of the damage without any of the drawbacks, is there anyone who still uses the majority of the T2 ammo types ?
Some of the long-range types are still useful at times, but the close-range ones are [insert appropriate expletive here].

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.06.19 05:59:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Leneerra


For gunnery ammo:
the ranged version seem to work although I personally would prefer slighly less range and slightly more damage


No thanks.


Originally by: Leneerra

the damage version tha5t reduces range and tracking without outperforming faction ammo by a good margin is a sick joke. either have it reduce rangge and increase damage and tracking (compatible with the general mechanic less range = more damage) or make them equivalent to short range ammo with an intresting side effect (for instance laser ammo make targets suffer more from heat (if used by the target), ballistic ammo give a chance to deactivate a module on the target ship (as if deactivated by the user). blaster ammo could reduce weapon sig radius slightly



Projectile Ammo (I assume) turning off modules?

The benefit is T2 it is cheaper. Hail is pretty decent at up close brawling and Conflag does more thermal than EM damage (Up to you if its worth it).

Apoptosis II
Exiliar Advent
Aesir'Vanir
Posted - 2008.06.19 07:13:00 - [42]
 


Mia Den
Minmatar
AFK

Posted - 2008.06.19 07:29:00 - [43]
 


Nilder Shadowfiyah
Caldari
3rd Millennium Group
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2008.07.07 12:29:00 - [44]
 


Molock Saronen
Posted - 2008.07.07 12:40:00 - [45]
 


Voculus
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.07 12:59:00 - [46]
 


nathaniel flanders
Posted - 2008.07.07 13:08:00 - [47]
 

/signed

Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.07.07 16:10:00 - [48]
 

Agree. There should be parity among T2 ammo types, and close range and missles could definitely use a rethink.

Madam Kaktar
Jenova's Witnesses

Posted - 2008.07.07 16:28:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Toramii
Yes.

CCP ...
  • Remove / revise the stacking penalties especially on short range variants
  • Change damage modifiers to balance
  • Investigate adding other effects to T2 ammo instead of damage



This

Tzujeih
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.07.07 16:50:00 - [50]
 


waristina
Amarr
Slavers Inc

Posted - 2008.07.07 20:28:00 - [51]
 

Nice idea.

Kovid
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2008.07.07 20:32:00 - [52]
 

Whatever can be done to balance ammo would be good, one way or another. Go ahead and change on or the other, or both, faction and t2 ammo. Cost and demand is one thing, but it doesn't balance against what some t2 ammo is.

Ivena Amethyst
Posted - 2008.07.07 20:37:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Ivena Amethyst on 07/07/2008 20:37:37
this thread just killed my invention/producion plans for t2 short range crystals, plese boost them so i can make some isk lol

Twisted Mechanic
Posted - 2008.07.09 23:08:00 - [54]
 


Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.07.10 03:20:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Leneerra
ever since the introduction of faction ammo most t2 ammo has been useless
I admit there is a minor role for some ammos and a few still shine (range boosting ammo) but the entire market on them tanked

They simply need to be redone.
I admit that having them outdamage faction ammo would not be in line with ccp's desires for combat duration so damage is not an option
Having the penalty effects be applied for each system having loaded that ammo type realy gimps the ships with many hardpoints over the ones with less and an added dps bonus
So I would suggest a system that does not have have a penalty nor gives a major bonus to damage

t2 Missiles could for instance lower actual speed (NOT max) by 1 or 2% per hit making them indirectly support other weaponsystems and increas the time a target needs to get to warp (even prefent it if there are enough of you)
the rage version with more dage ofset witrh a greater target signature allows a ship to engate a larger opponent miore effectively without boosting its damage against the same sized ship class removing other penalties from these missile types (rocket, ham, torp, cap torp) might do it but they should outperform faction missiles against larger targets.
Retaining a form of precision missiles (light, heavy, cruise and the missing capital cruise) without penalties do deal with smaller sized ship a bit more effectively might work as well

For gunnery ammo:
the ranged version seem to work although I personally would prefer slighly less range and slightly more damage allowing t1 a part in sniping as well
the damage version tha5t reduces range and tracking without outperforming faction ammo by a good margin is a sick joke. either have it reduce rangge and increase damage and tracking (compatible with the general mechanic less range = more damage) or make them equivalent to short range ammo with an intresting side effect (for instance laser ammo make targets suffer more from heat (if used by the target), ballistic ammo give a chance to deactivate a module on the target ship (as if deactivated by the user). blaster ammo could reduce weapon sig radius slightly
or maybe other have better idears?


I agree. Faction ammo/missiles make T2 kinda pointless, long range stuff like Scorch/Spike/ect are pretty good but all the short range ammo is complete rubbish. The penalties are too harsh, way too harsh, especially on the short range side of things.

T2 Ammo is a huge disappointment, a lot of it was pretty MEH when it came out, with faction ammo being in abundance and in many cases costing the same amount of isk as T2, what's the point?

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute

Posted - 2008.07.10 07:13:00 - [56]
 


MarleWH
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.10 09:26:00 - [57]
 

conflag ftl

Tlar Sanqua
Gallente
Gallente Defence Initiative
Posted - 2008.07.10 10:51:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Tlar Sanqua on 10/07/2008 10:51:42
Certainly short range ammo needs looking at and the long range would benefit as well.

The penalties are just too much to make them worthwhile in any fit really.

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation

Posted - 2008.07.10 11:40:00 - [59]
 

Precision heavies. SERIOUSLY

Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind

Posted - 2008.07.10 14:19:00 - [60]
 

Pretty Please fix em


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