Author |
Topic |
 Nariana Verex Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:21:00 - [ 31]
The short range ammo is almost universally obsolete in front of the availability of faction ammunition. T2 ammo definitely needs a look at... And the cost of Amarr T2 ammunition too, from personal experience, sometimes I spend as much on fitting the ammo as I do on the guns themselves.
And you can't split one faction crystal worth 4000 shots between 4 guns. You need four... At least let us be able to repair the special ammunition somewhat. [Like repair 20%, reduce max lifespan of the charge by 20%] |
 Zulu Six
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:25:00 - [ 32]
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 Talkuth Rel Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:41:00 - [ 33]
T2 ammo definetely needs a look, as it stands the penalties are too prohibitive to see much use. |
 Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.09 18:36:00 - [ 34]
Yeah, T2 ammo should do something faction ammo doesn't already do. I don't care if it's webber missiles, long-range ammo(which is just fine as-is), high-tracking ammo, low-sig ammo, high-damage ammo with fewer stupid penalties(like, make them equivalent on cap to the highest-damage T1 ammo), or whatever, it shouldn't just be picking a few higher spots on the range vs damage curve, and punishing you greatly for using them. |
 Mori Felding Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:41:00 - [ 35]
Agreed, something needs doing about this. |
 El Yatta 0utbreak |
Posted - 2008.06.09 23:06:00 - [ 36]
Edited by: El Yatta on 10/06/2008 23:45:46 Edited by: El Yatta on 09/06/2008 23:08:08 Keep long range T2 ammo (buff null and tremor a little bit with extra falloff)
Change all short range to -10% damage bonus (less than t1, more than 30% less than faction ammo) plus extra effects on your target:
Void: - Cap (e.g. 3 units for large) Javelin: - ECM burst effect (e.g. 1 strength lock-break, no 20s jam) Conflag: - + heat OR heat damage (first does nothing unless the enemy overloads, second would be quite strong over time) to random enemy slots. Gleam: - Optimal and falloff, 10s. Hail: - Speed 5s (e.g. -3%) Quake: - Scan Res 10s (e.g. -15% e) Rage: + Sig radius 20s (e.g. +20) Fury: - Agility 10s (e.e.g -10%)
Balance penlaties (need to be similar to today but more lenient in certain cases). Where penalties conflict with the effect on an opponent, that should be removed (e.g. stupid to have sig radius bonus on a torp that has a big sig radius, why not use a normal torp).
Essentially eaech 2o effect is designed to give some advantage that the ships that usually use that weapon would like - blasteboats being able to have their target having cap trouble as well as them, AC boats, if they choose to close range, hurting their opponents speed. |
 Kelbesque Crystalis Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:37:00 - [ 37]
T2 short range ammo is indeed in need of some love. |
 Venkul Mul Gallente |
Posted - 2008.06.11 13:54:00 - [ 38]
Rejoice, T2 ammunition have been changed. The BPO copy time has been increased so it is again above production time. What, that is not the boost you were asking for?   Well, it is what we get. |
 RedeyeAce Caldari Solar Revenue Service
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:48:00 - [ 39]
I think we all agree that the short range is pretty much useless and has been for a long while.. faction ammo :)
Yes definately needs to be rethinked |
 BlackDeej Aquila Astralis
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Posted - 2008.06.19 05:30:00 - [ 40]
I agree, T2 ammo needs some lovin'. With faction ammo giving (maybe) 90-95% of the damage without any of the drawbacks, is there anyone who still uses the majority of the T2 ammo types ? Some of the long-range types are still useful at times, but the close-range ones are [insert appropriate expletive here].
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 Artemis Rose Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE |
Posted - 2008.06.19 05:59:00 - [ 41]
Originally by: Leneerra
For gunnery ammo: the ranged version seem to work although I personally would prefer slighly less range and slightly more damage
No thanks. Originally by: Leneerra
the damage version tha5t reduces range and tracking without outperforming faction ammo by a good margin is a sick joke. either have it reduce rangge and increase damage and tracking (compatible with the general mechanic less range = more damage) or make them equivalent to short range ammo with an intresting side effect (for instance laser ammo make targets suffer more from heat (if used by the target), ballistic ammo give a chance to deactivate a module on the target ship (as if deactivated by the user). blaster ammo could reduce weapon sig radius slightly
Projectile Ammo (I assume) turning off modules? The benefit is T2 it is cheaper. Hail is pretty decent at up close brawling and Conflag does more thermal than EM damage (Up to you if its worth it). |
 Apoptosis II Exiliar Advent Aesir'Vanir
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Posted - 2008.06.19 07:13:00 - [ 42]
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 Mia Den Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2008.06.19 07:29:00 - [ 43]
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 Nilder Shadowfiyah Caldari 3rd Millennium Group Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.07 12:29:00 - [ 44]
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 Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2008.07.07 12:40:00 - [ 45]
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 Voculus The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.07 12:59:00 - [ 46]
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 nathaniel flanders
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Posted - 2008.07.07 13:08:00 - [ 47]
/signed |
 Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:10:00 - [ 48]
Agree. There should be parity among T2 ammo types, and close range and missles could definitely use a rethink. |
 Madam Kaktar Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:28:00 - [ 49]
Originally by: Toramii Yes.
CCP ...
- Remove / revise the stacking penalties especially on short range variants
- Change damage modifiers to balance
- Investigate adding other effects to T2 ammo instead of damage
This |
 Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:50:00 - [ 50]
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 waristina Amarr Slavers Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.07 20:28:00 - [ 51]
Nice idea. |
 Kovid Applied Agoraphobia
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Posted - 2008.07.07 20:32:00 - [ 52]
Whatever can be done to balance ammo would be good, one way or another. Go ahead and change on or the other, or both, faction and t2 ammo. Cost and demand is one thing, but it doesn't balance against what some t2 ammo is. |
 Ivena Amethyst
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Posted - 2008.07.07 20:37:00 - [ 53]
Edited by: Ivena Amethyst on 07/07/2008 20:37:37 this thread just killed my invention/producion plans for t2 short range crystals, plese boost them so i can make some isk lol |
 Twisted Mechanic
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:08:00 - [ 54]
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 Jim Raynor Caldari Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 03:20:00 - [ 55]
Originally by: Leneerra ever since the introduction of faction ammo most t2 ammo has been useless I admit there is a minor role for some ammos and a few still shine (range boosting ammo) but the entire market on them tanked
They simply need to be redone. I admit that having them outdamage faction ammo would not be in line with ccp's desires for combat duration so damage is not an option Having the penalty effects be applied for each system having loaded that ammo type realy gimps the ships with many hardpoints over the ones with less and an added dps bonus So I would suggest a system that does not have have a penalty nor gives a major bonus to damage
t2 Missiles could for instance lower actual speed (NOT max) by 1 or 2% per hit making them indirectly support other weaponsystems and increas the time a target needs to get to warp (even prefent it if there are enough of you) the rage version with more dage ofset witrh a greater target signature allows a ship to engate a larger opponent miore effectively without boosting its damage against the same sized ship class removing other penalties from these missile types (rocket, ham, torp, cap torp) might do it but they should outperform faction missiles against larger targets. Retaining a form of precision missiles (light, heavy, cruise and the missing capital cruise) without penalties do deal with smaller sized ship a bit more effectively might work as well
For gunnery ammo: the ranged version seem to work although I personally would prefer slighly less range and slightly more damage allowing t1 a part in sniping as well the damage version tha5t reduces range and tracking without outperforming faction ammo by a good margin is a sick joke. either have it reduce rangge and increase damage and tracking (compatible with the general mechanic less range = more damage) or make them equivalent to short range ammo with an intresting side effect (for instance laser ammo make targets suffer more from heat (if used by the target), ballistic ammo give a chance to deactivate a module on the target ship (as if deactivated by the user). blaster ammo could reduce weapon sig radius slightly or maybe other have better idears?
I agree. Faction ammo/missiles make T2 kinda pointless, long range stuff like Scorch/Spike/ect are pretty good but all the short range ammo is complete rubbish. The penalties are too harsh, way too harsh, especially on the short range side of things. T2 Ammo is a huge disappointment, a lot of it was pretty MEH when it came out, with faction ammo being in abundance and in many cases costing the same amount of isk as T2, what's the point? |
 Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.10 07:13:00 - [ 56]
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 MarleWH Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:26:00 - [ 57]
conflag ftl |
 Tlar Sanqua Gallente Gallente Defence Initiative
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Posted - 2008.07.10 10:51:00 - [ 58]
Edited by: Tlar Sanqua on 10/07/2008 10:51:42 Certainly short range ammo needs looking at and the long range would benefit as well.
The penalties are just too much to make them worthwhile in any fit really. |
 MenanceWhite Amarr Emi Raaf's Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:40:00 - [ 59]
Precision heavies. SERIOUSLY |
 Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:19:00 - [ 60]
Pretty Please fix em |