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blankseplocked Enough with all the NANO figs?
 
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deadmeet
Posted - 2008.05.28 11:58:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: deadmeet on 28/05/2008 11:58:38
OMFG, what a flamer Exuscon!!

All your post in that thread are pure non objective flamming...

There is always a way to counter a nano ship... Fitting heavy neut and overheat them... Bring some rapier/huggin in your fleet... Take nanoship too to scramble and doubleweb them... cloaked ship to approach them and warp in it...

For sure, if you are with your dominix and don't want to change your fully plated armor tank... Just put 2 Heavy neut in it and you will be able to defend yourself against Nano.

And don't forget that most nanoship have to sacrify their DPS to play nano. So, ok you can't kill a single vaga in your domi, but it can't kill you too... If there are more vagas they will kill you (normal), if there are more domi you will kill them (normal), and if the forces are equal, both have chances to kill thhe other (normal)...

So what's wrong guy ? Stop whining, learn to change your gameplay depending on your ennemies and enjoy that great game !

N'irrti
Amarr
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:08:00 - [92]
 

/me wtb one of those mysterious 11km/s nano hacs

people who whine about ships that go 5km/s max = people to stupid to find a counter (and there are several)

linux4ever
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:14:00 - [93]
 

the most important thing you can do in nanoships is that you can engage blobs
ive enganged alot of blobs with 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio against us

so if you want to make the nanos disapear make the blobs disapear too

my 2 cents

Van Steiza
4 chan
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:21:00 - [94]
 

Its so easy to kill nano ships man you people need to stop complaining theres nothing wrong with them.

I fly a hurricane with 220 IIs and barrage loaded i have 23km fall off anything thats nanoed that even tries to engage me dies or has to run.

Thers nothing wrong with the fact that they HAVE an option to run which they can SOMETIMES take sometimes there is no way out.

Its the style of skirmish warfare. You dont always have to commit now if you have problem with that type of pvp style then go back to highsec.

On any bs i fly i have a neut anything nano usualy just dies to that.

I fly nanoships I know what I can and cant engage and what I have to run from but it doesnt mean I can always run.

Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:59:00 - [95]
 

did some group of people feel like we went 25 days without a nano whine thread and so we need to regurgitate previous fail?

Van Steiza
4 chan
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:59:00 - [96]
 

I think so lol.

Larkonis Trassler
Doctrine.
Posted - 2008.05.28 13:10:00 - [97]
 

For dealing with nanos I would suggest a raven equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2008.05.28 13:38:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 28/05/2008 13:40:42
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
For dealing with nanos I would suggest a raven equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I

epic :)

and still no one brought up a valid argument :) and still all whiners refuse to adapt and fit to counter nano and still so much lazy crybabies around that think a minmatar recon is the only counter to nano fits instead of using some braincells.

a HINT:
neuts
webs
ECM
TD's
scouting
team work
zealot/absolution hits nanos easily
crusader against inties
cheapo anti nano precision raven
all races recons work too
team work
braincells

and this:
Quote:
And don't forget that most nanoship have to sacrify their DPS to play nano. So, ok you can't kill a single vaga in your domi, but it can't kill you too... If there are more vagas they will kill you (normal), if there are more domi you will kill them (normal), and if the forces are equal, both have chances to kill thhe other (normal)...

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:24:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Primnproper
Originally by: Kolatha
stuff


/signed

Also the other reason people fly nanos is because they're fun, your not just sat waiting for to see whose cap and therefore tank fails first in a battle instead your piloting your ship watching ranges, cap, armour, your transversal and a million other things.




/signed too

Flying fast ships is also very dynamic, you have to move around by clicking and really thinking about what you do instead of the usual Approach, f1-f8, engage tank, orbit, hope for the best.

It's appealing because of 2 things:

a) It's dynamic, fast paced and requires thinking

b) You can escape easier and you can pick your fights

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:27:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
For dealing with nanos I would suggest a raven equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I


You win this thread.

Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:35:00 - [101]
 

I'm suprised we got 4 pages in and no one mentioned about the cost of nano ships....

How much does your 40 man Domi gang cost (hypothetical but distressingly likely to kill 40 nano's if they engage) vs 40 ishtars / rapiers / assorted nano's?

Conservatively a nano costs 180-200m a hit when poly'd. Of which you get back sod all if you die. Your domi pilots are losing perhaps 30-50m a time at most. Try factoring in the relative isk values of losing a fight and nano ships again start to become more reasonable.

nano ships require you to fit smart or die. Yes they're hard to kill but they're also hard to kill with if your targets are doing what they should. One on one ishtar vs drake.... no chance the drake loses if the pilot is smart. ishtar vs raven? fairly good chance the ishtar is toasted..... raven costs how much?! Use the right tool for the job and you'll do better. If enemy gang shows up with nano's, eat their t2 drones and disengage if you can't web them :)


Nicho Void
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:56:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Nicho Void on 28/05/2008 15:01:59
Edit: you know what, never mind. It's the NOS argument all over again. Rolling Eyes

Prez21
Alpha Strike.
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:00:00 - [103]
 

People who claim nano ships are overpowered usualy tend to be the people who are very poor at pvp. Nanos are quite easy to counter if you have any idea how to fit your ship, ive even seen chinese isk farmers figure out how to hurt nano hacs in there ravens, so if they can do it i dont see why anyone else cant.

For the people who say flying nano ships is playing on easy mode why dont you go try it for yourself and i,ll bet that you will soon be crying that youve lost your nano ship due to bad piloting because to fly nanos takes alot of skill espcialy when you are fighting against large gangs.

The reason people nano is because most of eve follows the blob everything path or dont fight at all. If you takeaway nanos you effectivily kill small gang warfare as every 0.0 alliance will blob any small slowish gang that enters there space, the people who mostly complain about nanos are the unskilled pvpers who have been brought up on the mentality that blobing is the only way to win pvp fights and lack any real skill to fight on there own or in small gangs.

Voltain
Dracula Order
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:03:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Sapphrine
I'm suprised we got 4 pages in and no one mentioned about the cost of nano ships....



Good point, nano ships are used by roaming gangs. I get the feeling it's folks who are trying to defend their space making issue of nano fits.

2 Vagas = 500mil.

1 nubbin in a BB = ~20mil max?

Given half a brain the nubbin can give the Vagas a hard time, have a go at popping their drones and when he does miss an ECM cycle and gets ****d jump in another one.

You might not kill a Vaga in a BB, but you know where said Vaga will be heading if he doesn't want to get jammed.

Add half a dozen BB's...oh look, you just defended your space. Who cares if you got any kills, you can go back to ratting/making isk/wotever.



VillagePeople
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:32:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: VillagePeople on 28/05/2008 15:53:15
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 28/05/2008 13:40:42
a HINT:
neuts
webs
ECM
TD's
scouting
team work
zealot/absolution hits nanos easily
crusader against inties
cheapo anti nano precision raven
all races recons work too
team work
braincells

and this:
Quote:
And don't forget that most nanoship have to sacrify their DPS to play nano. So, ok you can't kill a single vaga in your domi, but it can't kill you too... If there are more vagas they will kill you (normal), if there are more domi you will kill them (normal), and if the forces are equal, both have chances to kill thhe other (normal)...



Don't you get it? You shouldn't have to go to such extreme lengths to counter such common ships. Nanoships have the advantage in 99% of scenerios, as not only do they have the obvious ease of escape advantage (no other setup allows for such easy and guaranteed escape, whilst also ensuring they have no chance to escape) but also they have the advantage of being able to lock down almost any non-nano ship, whilst taking 0 damage (especially from missiles). This is the role of an interceptor, which deal weak damage and are instapopped if you make a mistake unlike a vaga. Also this being a specialised role filling ship, it seems reasonable that you'd need a specialised solution to counter it as it is quite limited in targets that it can take on its own with little risk. You might even have a chance of killing them without if they are low skilled, although this clearly not true for a nano cruiser who has many times more room for error.

Sure you can fit a ton of overloaded neuts on a BS and hope he doesnt warp off when he realises that he's getting countered, but you shouldn't need a very weak and specialised BS (that I can almost guarantee you are going to lose 10x as often as the nano pilot loses his ship to a non-nano ship) to kill a cruiser that can fly around attacking almost any non-nano ship without fear of getting killed.

Can you see now how nano is obviously at the moment the best way to go if you want to kill and not be killed? It's the sheer combination of tank (which gets much more effective the bigger the ship you engage, unlike any other tanking) and speed that makes it so much better. There needs to be a more universal counter or a reduction in speed of non-interceptors, so that when they see a poor cruiser, battlecruiser or battleship on the belt they cant be certain that particular type of ship can deal them no damage or pose no threat and lets face it, if it was a vagabond vs 10 domi a competent vaga pilot is still going to be able to outrun them in a matter of seconds and warp out, while the domi pilot might too be able to effectively tank like a *****, he hasnt got an anti-gank get of jail card too.

Everybody flies nano for a reason, because its safer and easier (think of all the armor or shield tanking skills you need for an even half decent tank). I think that there needs to be some clever balancing before shield and armor tankers are few and far between, but I think with more and more people going nano CCP might feel the need to hit it with the nerf bat sooner or later.

Voltain
Dracula Order
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:38:00 - [106]
 

Your paragraphs are making my eyes melt.

Suboran
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:40:00 - [107]
 

people who whine about nano ships are often to lazy to think up a counter and almost always have never actualy flown a nano ship.

Kolwrath
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:51:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I find the problem to be a ship that can willfully disengage from virtually any combat situation that doesn't favor it. Other than opposing nanoships and huginns, nano-fitted ships violate the one great part of Eve: non-consensual PvP. Once jumped by opposing forces with these supposed "nano-killing" devices, the pilot has to be either dumb as a post or severely outnumbered in order to go down. The risk is just not there like flying other classes.

Easy mode IMHO.


QTF. Bang on.

Prez21
Alpha Strike.
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:58:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Prez21 on 28/05/2008 16:00:42
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I find the problem to be a ship that can willfully disengage from virtually any combat situation that doesn't favor it. Other than opposing nanoships and huginns, nano-fitted ships violate the one great part of Eve: non-consensual PvP. Once jumped by opposing forces with these supposed "nano-killing" devices, the pilot has to be either dumb as a post or severely outnumbered in order to go down. The risk is just not there like flying other classes.

Easy mode IMHO.


QTF. Bang on.


Its funny how you dislike nanos so much and claim there easy mode pedro yet you lost an nano arazu to a crow and a arbitrator lol, do you actualy even pvp at all? Nanos have easy counters they are just alot better at small warfare which would seem quite obvious to anyone, but any real pvper would know and does know how to counter nanos its just the whiney blobbers with no real skill that keep dragging up the same stupid arguments

Voltain
Dracula Order
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:06:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Prez21
Its funny how you dislike nanos so much and claim there easy mode pedro yet you lost an nano arazu to a crow and a arbitrator lol, do you actualy even pvp at all? Nanos have easy counters they are just alot better at small warfare which would seem quite obvious to anyone, but any real pvper would know and does know how to counter nanos its just the whiney blobbers with no real skill that keep dragging up the same stupid arguments


Ah a real QFT.

Nano ships COUNTER blobs, nerf blobs!

Kolwrath
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:08:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Kolwrath on 28/05/2008 16:12:41
Originally by: Kolatha
Edited by: Kolatha on 28/05/2008 10:42:30
Edited by: Kolatha on 28/05/2008 10:41:49
Nano fitted ships have an advantage in that the pilot is able to engage, and most importantly, disengage at will from almost every encounter. That is their biggest draw card.
<alot of valid points, but too big a post so SNIP>


Uhh wow bang on. CCP hire / listen to this guy.

EDIT: Oh and yay, posting in another nano/NOS/WCS whine thread.

LongHong Dong
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:08:00 - [112]
 

If nano fitted combat ships are so damn balanced and not an issue why are so many people here defending them?



Hannobaal
Gallente
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:14:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: LongHong Dong
If nano fitted combat ships are so damn balanced and not an issue why are so many people here defending them?





That is some nice logic there. That's basically saying "If I'm so wrong, then why are you arguing against me and telling how and why I'm wrong?"

Voltain
Dracula Order
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:15:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: LongHong Dong
If nano fitted combat ships are so damn balanced and not an issue why are so many people here defending them?




Someone has to feed the trolls FFS.


LongHong Dong
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:18:00 - [115]
 

Lag has nerfed the blobs.

Nano is the last ones that need CCP's magnificent touch again.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:25:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 28/05/2008 16:29:54
Originally by: LongHong Dong
Lag has nerfed the blobs.

Nano is the last ones that need CCP's magnificent touch again.


LOL, dude, are you stupid or what?.

Lag haven't nerfed blobs, it's the blobs who have made the lagLaughing.

And yeah, stop with your noobish nano crying on the forum, CCP wont help you kill more of them by making whine topics.

Nano fitted ships is fine. They are easy as hell to kill if you use your brain.

Oh, i also lost a Vagabond yesterday, and i lost it fast to.

taylor04
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:32:00 - [117]
 

adapt or die to the awsomeness that is blobbConfused

Lyra Sechrin
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:33:00 - [118]
 

Oh you utter spaktard.

Pantaloon McPants
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:44:00 - [119]
 

it just sucks that we have to learn to fly minmatar crap with there 70year skill training path to catch nanocrap, i guess the rest of us just fit neuts or bug the few that actually fly hugins/rapiers/hyenas to drop there nanovaga and help the rest of gang stay alive.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:01:00 - [120]
 

Speed is not an issue.

As long as it stays within certain limits...

But when certain bigger ships, zoom around you, and even outrunning interceptors there something wrong.

Remember when a fast roaming gang actually consisted of intys. Then the age of implants, gangbonuses and gang warfare links came upon us. And suddenly you had cruiser and battlesized ships outrunning tracking and expolosion velocity on turrets and missiles.

For f**k sake, the first thing people did when the new ships for FW came out was "how well can it nano?"

People neglect the actual bonus on ships and go: "yippy yey!! plenty lowslots, screw the ship bonus, this is going nano!"


Ships that are designed to go fast, should go fast, vaga, intys++.


Another problem is the way CCP stacking nerfs gangbonuses.

If you have a ship with speed mods, and get a commandship with ganglinks, you will get full bonus with no stackingpenalty. ( If i remember correctly )

Now, do the same thing with a EW ship and add an eos with ganglinks, the EW strength link do crap if your ship is already fitted with modules boosting your ew strength. But, it will still give you nice bonus on range on your ew modules.... Question


Anyway, the hammer will hit on the nanos, it`s just a mather of time. And when that happens I guess the whiners will find something else to whine about. Rolling Eyes









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