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blankseplocked Battle-Recorder Eve's Very Own Built-In Record Tool
 
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GizzyBoy
Posted - 2010.09.30 12:25:00 - [301]
 

THis.

Save incoming telemetry data, and just have a special mode in client to play it all back. If your there you are already getting most of the data that makes the pixels, all you have to do is save the stream, Then allow clients to play back this stream and convert it to video on client as you move camera around etc. also make eve tv for alliance matches much nicer.

Robban77
Caldari
Cynical Cartel
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:34:00 - [302]
 

Friendly bump!

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.03 21:21:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: GizzyBoy
THis.

Save incoming telemetry data, and just have a special mode in client to play it all back. If your there you are already getting most of the data that makes the pixels, all you have to do is save the stream, Then allow clients to play back this stream and convert it to video on client as you move camera around etc. also make eve tv for alliance matches much nicer.


That's pretty much it in two sentences. Haha

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.13 06:50:00 - [304]
 

So, I've got the recording fights idea, the streaming Alliance Tournament to client idea, the post-processing idea, the unwanted-items-off-grid idea, the frame-by-frame or avi export idea, and the stats idea.

What's missing? (Apart from the fact it's not in the game yet lol)

Count Chamberlain
Posted - 2010.10.21 23:24:00 - [305]
 

Bump for Justice

do it CCP :D ugh

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.17 19:43:00 - [306]
 

Needs plenty more support!

All of you! GET IN HERE! Twisted Evil

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2010.11.17 20:34:00 - [307]
 

/supported :)

WorkingOnIt
Posted - 2010.11.18 00:01:00 - [308]
 

I want this feature more than i want 3 woman serving my every need 24/7!!! well maybe not that much but

+1

Pytorion BE
Cursed Inc.
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.11.20 01:10:00 - [309]
 

AGREEEEEEEEEEEE

Yulm
Plex School
Posted - 2010.11.20 01:10:00 - [310]
 

/Signed

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.20 07:29:00 - [311]
 

Edited by: ninjaholic on 20/11/2010 07:35:16

I think I just had a mild stroke.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. [link]

Guys, this is your chance to get the Battle-recorder implemented.

You should have a look at this list, and submit your ideas for what order they should be prioritised by CCP in this thread.

This is well worth participating as you can see the list is long and has many many amazing additions that EVE needs.

But most of all, EVE needs you. This Battle-Recorder is #21. If you want it in the game, nows your chance to vote for it. I'm compiling mine as we speak, and man are there some excellent additions!

So come on guys, hundreds of amazing ideas need your support, this included!

So, again, take a gander at this list this list, and submit your numbers in here!

Please note, this submission was made by Alekseyev Karrde CEO & Contracts Manager of Noir. Don't forget to express some gratitude!

*Edit, added image link. Grrr

Paridoth
Trannyz
Posted - 2010.11.20 11:22:00 - [312]
 

DO WANT

Elm'o
Minmatar
Cursed Inc.
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.11.20 11:38:00 - [313]
 

Would be awesome. Probably hell of a payload for the cpu to handle but we're allowed to dream.

Masjheira
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.20 11:55:00 - [314]
 

Same thought here: If it's technically doable, let's support this brilliant idea!

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.20 14:01:00 - [315]
 

Originally by: Elm'o
Would be awesome. Probably hell of a payload for the cpu to handle but we're allowed to dream.


I've had this response a lot. To be honest, it wouldn't task your system any more than it already does which is the beauty of it Smile


ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.29 08:33:00 - [316]
 

The November 2010 Prioritization Crowdsourcing results are in!

Thank you so much to all who lent their support to get this much-needed addition in to the client! (It came 30th, with over 360 votes! That is FANTASTIC!)

<3

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.12.11 13:23:00 - [317]
 

BUMP! So, like you guys need to see this and vote for it when it comes up k? k. Twisted Evil

ILikeMarkets
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:35:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: ninjaholic
BUMP! So, like you guys need to see this and vote for it when it comes up k? k. Twisted Evil


I plan to. Having this would be beyond amazing. It would be great if they would allow us to pick what ship to view from, or to move freely, but I doubt that would be possible. But otherwise, I LOVE the idea.

Oremia
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:15:00 - [319]
 

+1

Also, why not make a grid-wide recorder so you can decide where you want to place the camera after the battle?

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:12:00 - [320]
 

+1
I like it so much i posted my own thread on the subject...
Looks sheepish,
did look at the commonly proposed ideas thread just missed it...
Ho Hum.
anyhow adding my vote to this thread.

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.12.25 22:44:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: ILikeMarkets
It would be great if they would allow us to pick what ship to view from, or to move freely, but I doubt that would be possible.


Totally possible. Otherwise, while limited, it would defeat the entire learning experience and negate the primary reason for the tool, to show epic fights in epic ways! It is after all just a grid of x, y & z locations moving in x, y & z direction at x speed for y 'ticks' or frames. Honestly something a client does a million times a year already. The only difference is that the 'server' would be your own computer, running the maths for the fight locally. And a single grid is already what your machine has to deal with every time you jump into a new system, or warp to a moon, fight, POS, gate etc. This is all stuff that the client already does! That's the beauty of it. All the code is already there. All the resources are already there. All we need now is a way to record it, modify it in beautiful ways, then capture it in your favourite vid cap utility. Unless an in-built one is provided Twisted Evil

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:13:00 - [322]
 

Been giving this a bit of thought of late, and I wanted to chime in. You already have my support (somewhere in this thread) but I had a few additional comments. Some of these comments are related directly to your idea, and some are slightly broader, looking at the bigger picture. Some of them may have been raised before, maybe it's a new angle - don't know.

Battlerecorder:

A see a few problems with this, in relation to the amount and type of data being processed by the client and the amount and type of data being processed by the server.

Are there ANY clear indications as to what is actually processed (from a action-outcome) on both systems? IE; If someone on grid hits a button to discharge a round of ammo, how much of that information is shared-processing? (either client to server, or client to server and then back to client?)

Does it go something like this: client says 'The button which generates a graphical representation of a round of ammo being fired has been pushed and I have shown it to my user, please inform the other clients' to which the server says 'ok, I'll let them know...ok, they have all been informed and should now be showing the same thing you have already shown your user'

Or is it a case of: 'My user wants to fire a weapon' and the server says 'hold on and I'll let everyone know...ok, show the animation'

I mean, how does it work and what is the sequence? The reason I ask is that this, surely, in either instance data is going through a server...and this data (when captured for playback) must contain extensive information.

In a very long way I'm asking what the issues would be in splitting this data apart and making sure it would not contain anything which would lead to a security breach?

With regards to recording everything 'on grid' - how big is this? 650km? How much information (potentially) could this be? per pilot? per fleet? per hour?...and if my above point has any bearing (that sensitive information would have to be split apart, whether that is 'dev' information or pilot/customer data) what kind of load is that? Would this also record inconsequential data about uninvolved looks-like-I-picked-the-wrong-day-to-jump-into-this-system pilots, or even, cloaked ships?

Battle-player:

I think there are issues, graphically, with the 'on grid' idea. Once you go beyond about 100km from an object in EVE, the graphics engine starts to fall apart when viewing the object - some Amarr station graphics break apart if you look at the other side of them. Recording everything on grid (I fear) may result in uneven quality, but would be happy to be wrong on this point. If no one has ever seen this - set an object as parent and then warp away from it, the further away, the more it looks like it is falling apart. IIRC EVE has been like this since day one.

I appreciate you are suggesting a new render engine, or a rendering engine specifically for this playback feature - but I think that is inappeasable, and so we are left with a hybrid of the current engine/client or a developer-based client hybrid of the existing developer tool used for making movies and testing.

I suppose I am not convinced CCP would be prepared to spend the time doing the following:

-splitting the sensitive data out of the normal encrypted data to get a log file for playback (assumptive by me).
-creating a new hybrid tool of existing client
-creating a hybrid tool of existing developer tool

If you also take a look at this other CSM point: Machinima support WIS I feel as if there is some overlap between the two.

(cont'd)

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:15:00 - [323]
 

Essentially, your main point hinges (I stand to be corrected) on insufficient in game tools to view action from multiple angles and viewpoints?
Assuming a battle recorder/players is not possible to do, can any pressure be applied (in conjunction with this other CSM-raised issue) in general terms to simply add more camera functionality/flexibility to the existing engine?

I just have more faith in that being a successful outcome with CCP than this, regardless of how much I support this idea.

AK

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.12.27 19:30:00 - [324]
 

What an awesome response. Give me some time to gather as much info as I can and have a good read and think about your post as I'm swamped at the moment, typing this from in work 2 hours after I was supposed to leave lol. I love posts like these Very Happy

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:02:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: ninjaholic
What an awesome response. Give me some time to gather as much info as I can and have a good read and think about your post as I'm swamped at the moment, typing this from in work 2 hours after I was supposed to leave lol. I love posts like these Very Happy


No worries. Here's a link to an example of the graphical glitch I was referring to : Linkige

That was a snapshot taken at the maximum viewing distance.

AK

Gangus
Minmatar
Matari BackBone
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2011.01.10 11:59:00 - [326]
 

I support this product and/or service.

Seriously, this would be awesome, it's something ive thought of before, mainly in terms of streaming Alliance Tournies at much lower bandwidth and as a training tool for newbies.

MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP, PLEASE!!!

Bornix
Posted - 2011.01.10 20:18:00 - [327]
 

This utterly rocks. And it's the only reason that made WC3 great. Replays!

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.01.24 05:08:00 - [328]
 

Edited by: ninjaholic on 24/01/2011 05:18:14

@ AlleyKat - You may well be right. While I've searched high and low for more information that might lead to exposure of how the server and clients pair up or sync, I've been only able to find speculative designs, more based on in-game experience by the author than anything. Shame.

Exclamation Maybe the bot designers could contribute, as the programs they design seem to suggest an understanding of the client-server relationship! Twisted Evil

You may be right too with the suggestion that the client might wait for server response before executing an action, as even the CSM submission page states that lag "may be a prohibitive issue". **SADFACE** (source). This, coupled with the massive slide-show big fleet-fights become, does suggest the client does indeed wait for the server's response before most, if not all, actions. This could be a hurdle Rolling Eyes

To answer you about the amount of data that would need to be recorded, I have only the most efficient in-built record tool to base my numbers on, (as other record tools I've experienced seem to have massive demo files Rolling Eyes ), Source-based games (TF2, CSS, L4D etc) record their demo files at about 32kb/s. For a 60-minute demo file, that works out at a not-too drive-destroying 110.56 Mb. This is based on public server demos, taking 66 'ticks' or frames a second, * 60 seconds, * 60 minutes, with roughly 20 people per server and records x, y & z co-ordinates, the players direction, and keyboard input for each frame. The single map that Source-based games would use could be considered the 'grid' (or sphere/bubble as CCP refers to it as).

A gird in Eve however, might contain up to 400 people. So you might get some very big numbers Shocked

I'm currently not able to see a huge difference in tests between even 32-man Counter-Strike: Source or Team Fortress 2 demo files and lower numbers of players demos for the same games, a Kb or two more /sec at best, but the demos may well be optimised for the engine's max supported limit of 24 players. More are possible but Valve themselves state that +24-man servers might bug out a lot. They're really stable, however, and the demos only grow by a few Kb in total.

To answer your question about the engine, ha, they just rebuilt Eve on Carbon, so maybe, just maybe we'll get some awesome new camera angles or controls! Twisted Evil

I've see that glitch before too lol. I once got chased by a moon in to warp. Was a bit scary!

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.01.26 22:42:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: ninjaholic
You may be right too with the suggestion that the client might wait for server response before executing an action, as even the CSM submission page states that lag "may be a prohibitive issue".(source).


If I am reading those notes correctly, I think this was a point of concern that one of the CSM members had and was not based on knowledge of CCP's architechture. If anything, it was 'I support this, so long as it doesn't impede either (A) development of the game or (B) lag.' Which although I beleive are always going to be logical concerns one should have with regards to anything the CSM are debating, are only pertinent once an answer has been provided.

Originally by: ninjaholic
To answer your question about the engine, ha, they just rebuilt Eve on Carbon, so maybe, just maybe we'll get some awesome new camera angles or controls!Twisted Evil


True, and my understanding of the assistance they lent which relate to machinima, is an enhancement of the Jessica tool - if I am recalling the dev blog correctly that is - so the video production team can make trailers and promotional material easier. This means nothing in relation to a battle recorder however.

What does need clarification, with the CSM, is what the internal discussions have led to?

Is this viable? If not, why?
When was this discussed?
Would it involve (some of my points above) too much effort?
Could this be "lag-prohibitive"? If so, what are the facts? What are the numbers?
Could it be "cost-prohibitive"?
Is there a security risk?
Can more camera functionality be applied to the existing client? If not, why?

I support this - but unless some details are forthcoming from the outstanding (valid) concerns and a proper discussion is had internally, it is hard to know anything other than the lack of a response.

With an 8:1 standing, here's hoping for something tangible.

AK

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:37:00 - [330]
 

JUSTICE BUMP!


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