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blankseplocked [Issue] UI Overhaul/Scripting (NOT macroing)
 
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:25:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 23/05/2008 10:26:54
Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 23/05/2008 10:12:42
O'rly. You can change those 6 buttons in gw or whatever, nice.
Eve has an unusual ui, I needed some time to get used to it at first, but I can use it effectively for whatever I need to so I see no issue. It has everything I need and everything is easily accessible if you are familiar with it and know where to look...
Not sure why one would need scripting and such, unless some hidden desire to be able to cheat even more. It's clear really. If you think a certain game is better, well, feel free to choose. You won't be missed. Not everyone likes eve and it's fine.

Oh btw, when did GW even became a MMO? Last time I checked it was like almost fully instanced so basically nothing better than a LAN game.


you can hide/show/resize/reposition all the info elements in GW. you don't get your keyboard monopolised by a chat window. oh this one is nice - you can actualy see the cooldown/recharg status of your used spells :-)

eve: can't reposition HUD. can't change HUD size. can't use any key for actions, only alt/ctrl combos as stupid chat windows takes them. combat log is on/off without ANY way to make it usefull.

want more ?

EDIT: it took like 3 years for CCP to give us movable locked target icons ...

Bael Thazor
Amarr
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:36:00 - [32]
 


Thirzarr
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:19:00 - [33]
 

Well, The UI is pretty much one thing: horrible.

: Mouse-Motion-Distances for simple interrelated tasks are huge
: There are quite alot of Features missing in Button-Commands (fire all weapons)
: There are feedbacks missing on several commands (Drone Setting changed)
: The overview and joining fleets and/or deploying drones is just plain broken

Several other issues come to mind, but let me just stay with these.

Yes, an overhaul is needed. Scripting and lua, no I dont think that is wise. Usually "addons" can suck alot of player-owned-skill out of games (Anyone know "Threat Meters"?)

Features to be wished for:
* Keybindings for often-repeated-command-chains.
* Feedback of what kind of ship you are controlling.
* Reduced Eye and Mouse motion.
* WORKING overview or a total replacement.

I do hope that some day the interface wont look like its assembled to alpha-test the game anymore.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:35:00 - [34]
 

Customizable UI (move things around, more flexibility with keybinds, resize things, MAYBE customizable windows and/or taskbars, that sort of thing) would be nice.

Automation of simple tasks like watching Local for hostiles (BACON), mining/ratting/mission running (macros) would not be nice.

I'm all in favor of custom UIs, as long as automation is kept out.

Jameroz
Echoes of Space

Posted - 2008.05.23 18:28:00 - [35]
 

The UI currently isn't that great so maybe it could be made better with scripting.

Few neat ideas came in mind:
  • Being able to select ammo that will be automatically reload when last one runs out
  • Being able to turn on weapons after reload is finished
  • Attack queues, ie shoot this target and when it's dead shoot next one
  • New hotkeys always needed, for example tagging hotkeys could be nice


Moridrex
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:39:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Not sure why one would need scripting and such, unless some hidden desire to be able to cheat even more. It's clear really. If you think a certain game is better, well, feel free to choose. You won't be missed. Not everyone likes eve and it's fine.



I think the big problem is most people think I meant scripting as in scripting actions in the game. Not so. I meant scripting as in script language for modifying the UI. I specifically ruled out tools that make the game automated. I *don't* want the scripting to be able to fly your ship, auto target, activate weapons, etc...specifically to *not* let people cheat.

I want things like the ability to add in-game calculators for cost of producing something. Highlight certain things in my overview or asteroid scanner window. Move or redesign my HUD so it is easier to read/takes less space. Sure, some things like calculators can be gotten in IGB websites produced by other people, but with the lag the IGB has that's not always feasible. Maybe I want the healthbars for my locked targets to overlay the bottom of the locked target's image instead of being underneath it. Maybe, I want my chat windows to show the people in them as a list rather than having their avatars next to it (most of which I don't bother clicking and caching anyway, resulting in a lot of wasted screen space).

These things don't constitute cheating. They just make life easier for some of us who have an array of spreadsheets and websites that we work with to give us better info, or have really cluttered screens with having Local/Corp/Alliance chats up, maybe cargo hold, fleet windows, locked targets, drones, overview, etc....EVE is a game about information but it doesn't give most of us efficient tools for displaying the information we have.

And so far, none of what has been suggested gives an advantage to the UI in the form of an edge other people, so those of you who are resistant to change, don't like christmas trees, etc...don't have to use it and are still just as competent as those with.

Exodus Alpha
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2008.05.23 21:33:00 - [37]
 

The important distinction here is that the players want a way to customize the UI to their liking, such as with a scripting language like LUA, but without enabling players to automate certain functions in the game. This is more than possible, and I feel CCP has ignored the issue of UI customization for way too long.

Despite the widespread public opinion about a certain game abbreviated "WoW", having been actively involved in UI customization for said game for a good I can say that the LUA scripting system in said game was one of its best and most powerful features despite Warcarft's many other shortcomings.

As long as CCP could manage a UI scripting system that allowed UI customization without enabling players to automate EON actions directly I wholeheartedly support this issue.

Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2008.05.23 22:22:00 - [38]
 

scripts while atk = cool

rasheedwallace
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe

Posted - 2008.05.24 06:02:00 - [39]
 

Something should be done to make the ui a little more customizable

Runewitch
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2008.05.24 08:40:00 - [40]
 

Forget ambulation until this is done first imo.

Kivin San
Damage Unlimited Inc
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2008.05.25 01:58:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Runewitch
Forget ambulation until this is done first imo.


this.


Say no to silly gimmicks and fix the things that have been a total drag since day 1.

Elseix
Posted - 2008.05.28 21:59:00 - [42]
 

Terrible UI is making new players who are ex-WoW not want to play. This shouldn't require the CSM's to bring it up but considering CCP still hasn't fixed the new bugs that were added in the last patch...

Making the UI suck less should be a major priority. It needs a major overhaul.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle

Posted - 2008.05.31 06:41:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kivin San
Originally by: Runewitch
Forget ambulation until this is done first imo.


this.


Say no to silly gimmicks and fix the things that have been a total drag since day 1.


No. I want my silly gimmicks, and any gewgaws or gimcracks.

But Seriously UI leaves a huge amount to be desired, could do with some real heavy duty overhauling and a lot of love.

trading hub
Posted - 2008.05.31 07:41:00 - [44]
 


Garthal
Lone Star Grand Venture
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.05.31 09:02:00 - [45]
 

It's amazing how low-tech and user unfriendly the UI is, for a game as old and rich as EVE.

area51
Gallente
Pilipino Corp

Posted - 2008.05.31 09:34:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Runewitch
Forget ambulation until this is done first imo.


ditto!

Exodus Alpha
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2008.05.31 10:39:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Runewitch
Forget ambulation until this is done first imo.


This for f***'s sake.

Alphrenel
Caldari
Heaven's Army
Posted - 2008.05.31 20:09:00 - [48]
 

double supped

Ashnagala
Caldari
Cybertec Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.31 20:10:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Alphrenel
double supped


As she said, double supped :)

Mr Siman
Spawn More Overlords

Posted - 2008.05.31 20:24:00 - [50]
 


Czanthria
Caldari
Faction Innovations

Posted - 2008.05.31 23:40:00 - [51]
 


Irista Ari'star
Posted - 2008.06.04 03:26:00 - [52]
 

EVE's UI needs serious work, my biggest problem with it is that it almost always keeps getting in my way. Regardless if I'm PvPing or mining.

Satis Tyr
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.04 05:44:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Satis Tyr on 04/06/2008 05:44:00
I support this product and/or survice

Chuck Skull
b.b.k
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2008.06.04 06:25:00 - [54]
 

Pretty please with a leggy blonde covered in cherries on top.


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.06.04 06:30:00 - [55]
 

hell yes!

Void Monarch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.04 06:56:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Besides, I always enjoyed the simplicity of eve ui

O'rly? That 'simplicity' isn't allowing new players to play, only adding headaches.
And please please don't argue about game you even haven't played.


/signed to OP

Ranamar
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.04 11:56:00 - [57]
 

supported...

The UI has some deficiencies I'd love to fix, and this is one thing that I think would be good to outsource to players, because the players are already doing it...

Takimi Star
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:02:00 - [58]
 

/agree 100%

Yuki Santara
Posted - 2008.06.05 18:13:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Ranamar
supported...

The UI has some deficiencies I'd love to fix, and this is one thing that I think would be good to outsource to players, because the players are already doing it...


The only way I could ever support this would be, if:

A) The best ideas and improvements get regularly moved back into the standard interface (even then, many will keep their changes private).

B) A system is in place to quickly switch between specialized interfaces, so a focused interface modification doesn't result in less flexibility (it's just terrible when players have to choose between an interface that allows them to do one thing well, or an interface that allows them to everything a bit less well).

Generally I am against excessive customization, because it detracts from the real problem (the interface needs to be improved) and adds unnecessary complexity, which can actually make it harder to implement real improvements (and it definitely makes it harder to get into the game, not just because you might have to at least download a more efficient interface, but also because not everyone may be on the same page regarding UI documentation).

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.05 19:30:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
And it will make players able to play more. I know which I care more about. Besides, scripting is already possible, it's merely disallowed. You think that stops any macroers?


It surely won't make people play more, not sure where you took that idea from. It will make players play considerably less and afk more while their UI is doing a good part of their job. You want to make a christmas tree out of your UI, there's other MMOs that support that and don't care much about the bad consequences. 10 mill is 10 mill, who cares if 50k of those are botters. It's extra $$.
You want to promote macroers and help them more. You one of them yourself or just a wannabee? Press the damn keys and play the game instead of wanting to just look at it while it's doing it (nearly) all.
I know there's places in this world where things like using manual transmission would be classified as heavy work Laughing that doesn't mean Eve should do all your work, though.
Besides, I always enjoyed the simplicity of eve ui, no need for plugin/addon/script/macro etc. updating headache after every patch. Bad idea.



By "play more" I mean "spend more of their time actually playing", as opposed to fighting with the UI. And it's not that I want to make a "christmas tree" out of my UI - WoW pastels aren't really my thing - it's that I want to be able to do something with it to make it not like beating my head against the wall. I'm not a fan of WoW gameplay, and I love Eve's, but on the UI front my opinions are completely the opposite. Eve's UI is an abomination in so many ways, whereas WoW has done just about everything right that I can see.

Originally by: Sariyah
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
yes please, long overdue. EVE UI is one of the worse in MMORPG


Tbh I'd say it's THE best by far.


Tbh I'd say you're nuts.

Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 23/05/2008 10:12:42
O'rly. You can change those 6 buttons in gw or whatever, nice.
Eve has an unusual ui, I needed some time to get used to it at first, but I can use it effectively for whatever I need to so I see no issue. It has everything I need and everything is easily accessible if you are familiar with it and know where to look...
Not sure why one would need scripting and such, unless some hidden desire to be able to cheat even more. It's clear really. If you think a certain game is better, well, feel free to choose. You won't be missed. Not everyone likes eve and it's fine.

Oh btw, when did GW even became a MMO? Last time I checked it was like almost fully instanced so basically nothing better than a LAN game.


I can't comment on GW(unlike WoW, it hasn't eaten the life of half of my friends), but this insinuation that people only want scripting so that they can cheat is insanity. I don't cheat, I've never cheated in any multiplayer game I've played, and I don't intend to start no matter what scripting is added to Eve. And while none of us can be sure, I imagine myself to be pretty typical. Most people are here to play, not to rack up bigger numbers, and even if most of the worst fears about scripting were realized, a large majority of players wouldn't abuse the new system.

Also, the "go back to WoW" bit is provincialism at its worst. I don't like the game, but it didn't get to 10 million subscribers because the devs were stupid and implemented a game with no redeeming features. I've never heard of a game company doing badly by picking up best practices from Blizzard, and WoW's UI is definitely one of the best things Blizzard has produced that I've ever seen. Don't ignore them just because of the deep inferiority complex everybody on these forums seems to have with regards to our local 800-lb gorilla.


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