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blankseplocked [Issue] UI Overhaul/Scripting (NOT macroing)
 
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Moridrex
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:00:00 - [1]
 

I think the UI is long overdue for mass love. The little tid-bits CCP throws it every once in a while isn't doing it much good, and in one of the recent patches they outright broke it with Drone/Fleet windows pushing overview and selection off the screen.

I'd like to propose the following:
  • LUA scripting added, to allow creation of custom windows using game data, and custom key bindings (so I can assign drone squads to launch buttons or keys!)
  • LUA scripting should not be capable of doing things such as targetting, issuing ship move or combat orders (to keep the macros from having in-game macro systems)
  • Firing groups - to allow one-key turn on of multiple modules simultaneously


This way features like cooldown timers on the buttons can be implemented into the UI by players instead of waiting 10,000,000 years for CCP to get around to it because they're fixing more important bugs. The idea here is to give the scripting enough power to make useful aesthetic or informational changes to the UI, reduce some UI tedium, but NOT give someone an advantage in combat or the ability to macro.

Elisa Day
Shade.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:02:00 - [2]
 

SUpport 100%, of course. Un-customizable UI is so 90's.

Paaaulo
Minmatar Mafia

Posted - 2008.05.22 16:03:00 - [3]
 

A more customisable ui would be class

Erotic Irony
0bsession

Posted - 2008.05.22 16:56:00 - [4]
 


Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:06:00 - [5]
 

Oh good lord yes. Single greatest patch that could be made would be one that lets players fix the UI.

Mystic Twilight
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:10:00 - [6]
 

Love the idea, while we're at it, why not throw in some voice activated snowball system, extra blinking lights on the modules, and add a manual gunnery system. (JK, stil, custom is good, I at least hope the windows stay when you put them somewhere)

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:34:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 22/05/2008 18:22:16

I support major improvements to the UI as a high priority task.

Things that I'd like to see done:

1. CCP should try to look at each interface element from the point of view of the user, and try to make it more convenient for the user (and by that, I mean, make the Corp interface more useful to officers, directors, and CEO's, make the in-space windows more useful to combat pilots, and so on).

We could use, for example, a working combat log that we can customize much like the Overview, so that we can have color-coded messages scrolling by with who does damage, what type of EWar, and so on and so forth. We could also use an in-game solar-system-map window, that updates itself with scanner results, bookmarks, fleet members in space, and so on.

For the industry people, it would be nice if the hangar displayed the ISK value of everything in it, as well as the recycle value. CEO's and directors could probably make use of a rightclick option for "Give member X access to this hangar now!" as well as a better presentation of how the security of the corp is set up, what the security of each hangar is (a list of who can access it), etc etc.

2. EVE should be less "spreadsheets-in-space". The consummate trader and industrialist, sure, they can do their detailed profit calculations manually, but why does the combat pilot have to manually add up the ISK value of his loot? Why isn't the recycle value of items / stacks of items displayed? DPS on guns? Recharge / consumption rates on capacitor and shields? Why aren't NPC's color-coded by ship class and what EW / damage they can do?

We must memorize too much information to play this game.

3. Make the client smarter. Currently, the client lets you, even prompts you to, try an action, then the server pops up a window that says You can't do that!. Example I've given before: silos, the button to open them lights up at 3000 m, but when you try to do so, the server says "Must be within 1500 m to do that." WTF is that? That is annoying.

Make the client smarter, make the client know all these rules about distances and what can be opened, etc., and stop pestering us with pop-up boxes! I'd rather have the button for opening a silo be dimmed until I'm in range, and if I hover over it I should see a description that says "must be within x".

4. Right-click should give extra options, rather than being the default way of doing things. Don't know if CCP has noticed, but in Windows, I can do everything in a zillion ways. I can simply click / drag and drop, I can pick File -> Move from the menu bar, I can use a Winkey combination, I can right-click and choose from a context-sensitive menu, I can go through the control pannel and set options there, I can open the console and set options there, open registry and set my preferences there... 7-8 different ways to do the exact same damn action.

The EVE UI should have that.

Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:36:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 22/05/2008 21:42:40

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777980

Bald Rikk
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:24:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Bald Rikk on 22/05/2008 18:24:43
Customisable UI gets my vote.

Right now....
'XXXXXX' Wants you to join their fleet <yada yada> YES
"Bu$%r! S@&t! Pi$$ing Overview!!!"

Get the jist? It is more broken now than when I started playing 18 months ago

-- Baldrikk

Voculus
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:46:00 - [10]
 


Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Voculus
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


You'll want to click the "Check here if you want to give your support" buttonWink

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:52:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Sariyah on 22/05/2008 19:52:47
Edited by: Sariyah on 22/05/2008 19:52:32
Oh God, please don't.
No scripting of ANY kind. More customization only if doesn't come with lower performance.
Scripting will make cheaters be able to cheat more.

Xenofur
Aliastra

Posted - 2008.05.22 19:53:00 - [13]
 


Vash Nomet
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:56:00 - [14]
 

Of course.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2008.05.22 19:57:00 - [15]
 

Channel occupant filtering.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:06:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 22/05/2008 19:52:47
Edited by: Sariyah on 22/05/2008 19:52:32
Oh God, please don't.
No scripting of ANY kind. More customization only if doesn't come with lower performance.
Scripting will make cheaters be able to cheat more.



And it will make players able to play more. I know which I care more about. Besides, scripting is already possible, it's merely disallowed. You think that stops any macroers?

Dusky Shark
Blood Wagon

Posted - 2008.05.22 20:07:00 - [17]
 

Hope CCP will listen to this.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:12:00 - [18]
 

I don't like a game where you have to learn to script to be able to play well.

Thumbs down.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:18:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
I don't like a game where you have to learn to script to be able to play well.

Thumbs down.


Then do it the way WoW does it - scripts get formed into mods, posted at a single site. One in 10 million(or 100k, in the Eve context) needing to know how to script is far more palatable.

Moridrex
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:24:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
I don't like a game where you have to learn to script to be able to play well.

Thumbs down.


The idea is NOT to make scripting necessary to play well. And the scripting in this context is not meant to be akin to Star Wars Galaxies scripting which allows you to automate functions to play the game.

The context in which I meant scripting is solely for interface/visual enhancements, and should be done ala (I'm going to say the evil word...hate the game but love the scripting component) WoW...player made addons that enhance the interface but do not give you an advantage.

I specifically blocked the ability for the script language used to target things or open fire on them...the two abilities most needed for an automated macro type script but NOT needed by interface enhancing scripts.

For instance, I would love to be able to re-write my asteroid scanner interface to color the roids I have targetted differently. It makes it easier to take a glance and know what roids *not* to relock. Additionally I'd like to do the cooldown effect common in other games for my mining lasers.

I'd like to be able to rebuild the drone interface so it's more functional...the thing is crap right now even with the Trinity enhancements.

I in no way want to make it so that an add-on script has the abilities to auto-suicide-gank people, auto-stripmine a belt, auto-mission farm, auto-warp-to-zero-afk-autopiloting, etc...and definitely want it to be so that people who choose no add-ons can still play. Just that those of us who will go get an addon or write our own can have our interfaces made more useful to the way we play.

And to mention evil games again...I know lots of people who played WoW with no addons and loved the game as is, and were competent. I myself played SWG (pre NGE) without using any macros (didn't even know how) until after level 80, and then I only bothered for the sake of saying I had. Proper introduction of a UI add-on scripting system does NOT mean requiring it to play or handing evil macros i-win buttons.

Kivin San
Damage Unlimited Inc
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:14:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Kivin San on 22/05/2008 21:18:34
It's disappointing that the average Eve player makes a distinct connection between customizable user interface and "macroing", as we've affectionately come to know it over the years.

When I clicked reply, I resolved not to mention Warcraft in my post. I find, now, that doing so is necessary - and damn the prejudices of the community. For all the persons that read this topic and are concerned that customizable = bad, allow me to point out a few things:

Idea Macroing is a very real problem. However, at what point are we willing to sacrifice the positive game play experience of legit players in order to put artificial inhibitions on macros?

Idea Blizzard Entertainment's Warcraft UI is widely regarded as being one of the most useful, intuitive, and enjoyable in the genre. Regardless of persons' feelings towards the game itself, I've met few - if any - who don't believe that the custom UI has a tremendously positive impact on the game. In point of fact, I know of a handful of people who have actually continued their subscription long past when they would have - because they were able to play around with the UI.
Furthermore, Blizzard Entertainment has a track record for outlawing "unfavorable" behavior caused as a result of their UI. Every so often, a savvy player comes up with the means to do something that Blizzard deems inappropriate - much like the present bacon situation. Countless times, Blizzard has patched over a certain feature of the UI to keep it macro-safe - yet the UI still receives overwhelming positive appeal from the players.

Idea There's a lot more players than there are Devs. Some of them, such as myself, have a strong programming background. I don't believe I'm the only one that believes that they could improve Eve for the majority of players without violating the ideals of those persons. And, to be perfectly frank: With CCP's track record for usability in Eve, I have a great deal more faith in the players to fix our UI.

Lastly, I would recommend that all persons read Xaen's excellent list of UI improvements: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=401234
This post has some excellent ideas, and a date stamp of Sept 2006! If CCP wont fix it, why shouldn't we be allowed to ourselves?

edit: linkified.

Kinkie Yuuki
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:44:00 - [22]
 

.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan

Posted - 2008.05.23 01:49:00 - [23]
 

Customisation is a powerful tool and enhances the player experience. Measures would need to be taken to prevent macroing and other cheats but that is a part of the package.

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:35:00 - [24]
 

Seeing as Xaen hasn't said anything yet, I'd like to link to a significant discussion and changes: Xaen's List of UI Improvements.

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority

Posted - 2008.05.23 08:42:00 - [25]
 

/ agreed

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
And it will make players able to play more. I know which I care more about. Besides, scripting is already possible, it's merely disallowed. You think that stops any macroers?


It surely won't make people play more, not sure where you took that idea from. It will make players play considerably less and afk more while their UI is doing a good part of their job. You want to make a christmas tree out of your UI, there's other MMOs that support that and don't care much about the bad consequences. 10 mill is 10 mill, who cares if 50k of those are botters. It's extra $$.
You want to promote macroers and help them more. You one of them yourself or just a wannabee? Press the damn keys and play the game instead of wanting to just look at it while it's doing it (nearly) all.
I know there's places in this world where things like using manual transmission would be classified as heavy work Laughing that doesn't mean Eve should do all your work, though.
Besides, I always enjoyed the simplicity of eve ui, no need for plugin/addon/script/macro etc. updating headache after every patch. Bad idea.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:37:00 - [27]
 

yes please, long overdue. EVE UI is one of the worse in MMORPG

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:01:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Hugh Ruka
yes please, long overdue. EVE UI is one of the worse in MMORPG


Tbh I'd say it's THE best by far.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:09:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
yes please, long overdue. EVE UI is one of the worse in MMORPG


Tbh I'd say it's THE best by far.


orly ? try f.e. guildwars and then repeat your argument. for the kind of gameplay that the games support, GW has a much better UI not to speak about the customisability.

EVE ui lacks features to accomodate basic gameplay for some things.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:12:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Sariyah on 23/05/2008 10:12:42
O'rly. You can change those 6 buttons in gw or whatever, nice.
Eve has an unusual ui, I needed some time to get used to it at first, but I can use it effectively for whatever I need to so I see no issue. It has everything I need and everything is easily accessible if you are familiar with it and know where to look...
Not sure why one would need scripting and such, unless some hidden desire to be able to cheat even more. It's clear really. If you think a certain game is better, well, feel free to choose. You won't be missed. Not everyone likes eve and it's fine.

Oh btw, when did GW even became a MMO? Last time I checked it was like almost fully instanced so basically nothing better than a LAN game.


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