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seplocked Crime and Punishment
blankseplocked The story of an ISK buyer
 
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Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.05.22 00:22:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Stakhanov
Hire the GHSC to grief both of them out of Eve.

It's the only way to be sure.


They mostly come at night.... mostly...



And then nuke them from orbit.

Rogaru
Amarr
Posted - 2008.05.22 00:52:00 - [32]
 

I bought this char about 7 months ago with isk (legal, via forums etc etc).

About 3 weeks ago I logged in and found my wallet was negative 3.5billion.

Obvioulsy I petitioned, and got the usual "isk buying is bad mmmmk"

I replied I bought this char via forums (gave links etc), and that all the transactions occured before I bought the char.

The reversed the negative balance on my account, and put the SELLERS other char into negative -3.5b.

So the isk buyer gets punished - even if they try to offload their "dirty" characters.

3ll3
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.05.22 00:53:00 - [33]
 

My apolagise to you then hells hunterEmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassed

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:12:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: hells hunter

My problem is with people like the OP who go out of their way to demonise an isk buyer when in reality CCP sanctions that behaviour by selling game time.



Naturally, it's idiocy that you have to pay real money for game time. You should be able to play for free! Laughing

Oftherocks
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:16:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: hells hunter
Offtherocks, I agree with you that my argument has drifted from my original point, as I have no problem with CCP making and enforcing any rules that they want to.

My problem is with people like the OP who go out of their way to demonise an isk buyer when in reality CCP sanctions that behaviour by selling game time.

If on the other hand the OP also went in hard against people buying game time from CCP with isk, I wouldn't take issue. It's the selective hate that I find moronic.


Let me start by saying I have no intention of starting an argument with you, but the thing is I asked the OP to make this post so that it would get more reads, and therefore I feel I should defend Akita. You may not believe this, but the OP was very hesitant to make this post for me, he even cautioned that it would likely turn into a flame war, when I was hoping to inform people of a cheater. So I think it is unfair to say the OP is coming in on some high horse preaching down to the masses.

Go back and read the OP, at no time does the word Hate come up. While he believes me, his post specifically says to the reader, feel free to be sceptical, feel free to question, make your own conclusions.

I know Akita has a very strong opinion on this form of cheating, but in this particular post, I do not see him deamonizing isk buyers.

I wanted this to be an informative post, a warning to others about a specific individual who cheats, nothing more. So I ask you kindly, take the OP as a messanger who was asked to deliver a message by someone who just wanted to maximize the readership of my story. Think of the OP as a Celebrity doing a public service announcment, and if you have a problem with the announcement, come after me, it is my story, Akita was just doing me a favor.

Thanks,
Oftherocks

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:33:00 - [36]
 


Well, to be fair, the word "hate" was used in the OP by me.
But it was used in a very specific context, and the "target" was a single type of individuals.
The target was "people who buy ISK from a RMTer".

Like I said, I have no big problem with the concept of ISK buying per se.
Yes, it's unpleasant, somewhat unfair for those who won't do it.
I personally would never buy ISK.
I urge people I know not to buy ISK, not even via GTCs.

What I do have a problem with is people who try to PROFIT from this game by selling ISK for real-life money.
The people that clog the server with 23/7 farming shared-ownership accounts.
And by extension, the people that give them the reason to exist by purchasing ISK from those RMTers.

Now, while "buying ISK" is bad, "buying ISK from a RMTer" is much worse.
ESPECIALLY when CCP kindly allows you to buy it in VERY SMALL packages from SEVERAL people, at the same time not allowing anybody to make a real-world profit out of it, by NOT allowing anybody to "sell" more ISK than what it would take them to pay for the subscription.

So, for the Nth time... Is ISK buying bad ? YES, wether you do it via GTC or from a RMTer. But which is WORSE ?
You'd have to be a fool to claim the damage is anywhere near the same magnitude, and you'd be an even greater fool to claim anybody but CCP has a right to make money from this game we're playing.
____


So, while CCP only gently slaps the hand of an ISK buyer (by removing the ISK) the first time or first couple of times, while at the same time fighting as hard as possible to contain the RMT/farm acounts (while inevitably failing to do a "perfect job" given limited human resources available and increasing lack of cooperation from the player base), it's THOS people, the ones that BUY ISK FROM RMTers that are the underlying CAUSE for all the RMT problems.

Want to buy ISK so badly ? CCP gave you an alternative.
An alternative where the people that DESERVE the money (CCP) get them, where no ISK is generated out of thin air (another GENUINE player does that, not a 23/7 farm account), and where every person gets the CHANCE to pay for their gametime with somebody else's money (money they would have had to pay instea if they wished to continue playing).
It's a win/win/stalemate alternative, where the "stalemate" is for people that hate ISK buying as a whole concept so much that they can't grasp the fact this is the only LOGICAL alternative where the damage "ISK buying" is not only minimized, but also used to do a little bit of good.

So, yet again... do I hate ISK buyers ?
Yes, but ONLY those that buy their ISK from a RMTer.
For the ones buying the ISK with GTC, I only feel pity.

Arctur Ceti
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:36:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 01:38:02
the hipocrisy in here is pathetic. wheres the outrage for players using alts to CHEAT? Rolling Eyes there are tons of ways to cheat in this game, but the only ones that irk you are the ones you cant afford. nice

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:42:00 - [38]
 

You're not the one setting the rules. It's not your game.
CCP is the only authority on what IS cheating and what isn't.
If you don't like the rules of the game, quit.

Arctur Ceti
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:45:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 10:51:45
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 01:46:11
Originally by: Akita T
You're not the one setting the rules. It's not your game.
CCP is the only authority on what IS cheating and what isn't.
If you don't like the rules of the game, quit.



so then why are you playing this high and mighty MORAL authority when it just boils down to whatever CCP says is right and whatever it says is wrong. stop justifying it by calling those you dont like cheaters. stop it with this stupid biased crusade

Oftherocks
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:54:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Arctur Ceti
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 01:46:11
Originally by: Akita T
You're not the one setting the rules. It's not your game.
CCP is the only authority on what IS cheating and what isn't.
If you don't like the rules of the game, quit.



so then why are you playing this high and mighty MORAL authority when it just boils down to whatever CCP says is right and whatever it says is wrong and stop justifying it by calling those you dont like personally cheaters. stop it with this stupid biased crusade


I'm going to assume English is not your native language because frankly, you make absolutely no logical argument in your statement. Are you saying because Akita is in this case arguing against ISK buying cheaters instead of all the other cheaters his argument is somehow invalid? Are you aware there are actual rules to this game, not just what seems fair and just to you, but actual rules, and breaking those actual rules IS cheating, but doing what you think is unfair, but not disallowed by the rules is NOT cheating?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.22 01:58:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Arctur Ceti
so then why are you playing this high and mighty MORAL authority when it just boils down to whatever CCP says is right and whatever it says is wrong and stop justifying it by calling those you dont like personally cheaters. stop it with this stupid biased crusade

MORAL authority ? What part of my post was "moral" ?
I was merely stating a fact : people that BUY ISK from RMTers enable the RMTers existance in the first place, and then the RMTers flood and clog the game with 23/7 double-shift-shared and/or macro-aided accounts whose sole purpose is to get ISK to sell for cash (and that's if they're mild-mannered enough, since there's enough evidence buyers have been occasionally finding themselves robbed of ISK, assets or even with all the CHARACTERS on their accounts sold off).

And if you think that's a fabrication or a simple hypothesis instead of observed fact, I pity you.
There's no question about it : RMT is bad, because it sucks away cash from the people that maintain the game, to the people who actually do nothing to promote it, quite the contrary. It's not a MORAL argument, it's a FINANCIAL argument. Who is entitled to the cash and who isn't. CCP certainly is. The farmers certainly aren't. What's there to debate ?
And another thing there's no question about : would nobody BUY ISK FROM RMTers, they would simply not exist.
It's as simple as that. The existance of ISK buyers willing to buy ISK outside the "allowed" method causes their very being.

Also, while I did use the word "hate", I believe I never used the word "cheater", not once before you said it first and I had to respond to it.
And when I DID respond, I merely stated that you are not the authority on deciding what cheating is or isn't.

Arctur Ceti
Posted - 2008.05.22 02:11:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 02:25:46
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 02:15:36
ok then, what's your point in posting this on the forums? you agree ccp decides the rules and i'll assume you're ok with ccp deciding the punishment for the crime as well, right?. then why the crusade against this player that probably has already been punished by ccp? what's your point? it seems you want this player punished further. why? why cant you let ccp handle this? why are you trying to drive him out of the game? why are you taking justice in your own hands?
if you believe so much that ccp is the decider, then why not trust whatever decision they made with this specific buyer? like i said HIPOCRISY, that's why.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.22 02:23:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 22/05/2008 02:38:48
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
bla bla bla

Go back to the OP and read the last paragraph.
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
why

Because I'm evil like that and I love it Twisted Evil
[/sarcasm]

*looks around*

No, seriously, this IS the "Crime and Punishment" subforum, right ?
The place where (among other things) people discuss things they BELIEVE should be treated as crimes and (if needed/wanted/whatever) PUNISHED accordingly BY PLAYERS (not the devs via bans or such), and all of it within the game RULES set forth by CCP in the first place ?
Any of it ringing a bell yet ?


EDIT : I give up. Hopeless. Oftherocks, this thread's yours now.

Oftherocks
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.05.22 02:24:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Arctur Ceti
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 02:15:36
ok then, what's your point in posting this on the forums? you agree ccp decides the rules and i'll assume you're ok with ccp deciding the punishment for the crime as well, right?. then why the crusade against this player that probably has already been punished by ccp? what's your point? it seems you want this player punished further. why? why cant you let ccp handle this? why are you trying to drive him out of the game? why are you taking justice in your own hands?
if you believe so much that ccp is the decider, then why not trust whatever decision they made with this specific buyer? like i said HIPOCRISY, that's why.



In a way you are right, this is vigilante justice. But I think of it more as a warning, letting people know what type of person this character is. I don't want someone else to log in to a negative balance because they had dealings with him. I don't want other people to have to wait a week before they get their ISK back. That is my true intention, to inform and protect others who aren't breaking the rules.

Treean
Posted - 2008.05.22 04:40:00 - [45]
 

CCP should ultimately be reviewing characters being traded for illegitimate ISK purchasing activities before the buyer receives the character. Stories like this about people purchasing isk and then selling the character are getting more and more common.

spanky herman
Viziam
Posted - 2008.05.22 05:02:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Arctur Ceti
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 22/05/2008 01:38:02
the hipocrisy in here is pathetic. wheres the outrage for players using alts to CHEAT? Rolling Eyes there are tons of ways to cheat in this game, but the only ones that irk you are the ones you cant afford. nice


It's not cheating to have multiple characters.
I have one for each of the voices in my head ( I would call them personalities but my CEO insists I have no personality).


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