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Rulkez
Tribal Core
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:48:00 - [391]
 

Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 18:48:22
Originally by: Delezar
Originally by: In4r4
Edited by: In4r4 on 17/05/2008 18:34:24
[...]
the mechanics have also been made so blobs wont do anything quicker, better to have 4 gangs of 50 of taking 4 points than 1 gang of 200 taking 4 times longer to do the same thing.


With the difference, that a couple of 50 people gangs might be fought, while most will run from a 200 man gang. Which will actually allow the blow to progress faster due to a lack of opposition.


The fights the point ?

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:49:00 - [392]
 

Originally by: CCP Dionysus
The factions claim sov over systems, and are asking for people to help defend their own sov systems... Why on earth would they trust anyone else who is trying to gain sov over systems as well?


Under this logic, all of the alliances would be engaging in a free for all. Under the prime fiction, gallente and minmatar are aligned against caldari and amarr. Are you saying these allegiences won't exist under FW?

Sarmaul
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:52:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
The factions claim sov over systems, and are asking for people to help defend their own sov systems... Why on earth would they trust anyone else who is trying to gain sov over systems as well?


Under this logic, all of the alliances would be engaging in a free for all. Under the prime fiction, gallente and minmatar are aligned against caldari and amarr. Are you saying these allegiences won't exist under FW?


Stop trying to wrangle future plotlines out of the devs :P

Major Death
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:56:00 - [394]
 

I believe that the message from CCP is 'wait and see as nothing is written in stone'.

Of course what worries people is the FW becomes the only RP show in town, and nothing else happens unless its tied to FW.

Tissa
Minmatar
Mnemonic Enterprises
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:58:00 - [395]
 

Now you are just exaggerating Bad Harlequin, I dont like the idea that anyone can walk into FW and tell everyone how to play, yes it would benefit the faction if the more experienced players were to help teach people who have never done PvP before and to help ease people into RP but to think it's your god given right to run the whole show is not right or fair and could lead to bullying. You need to be guides not dictators.

For the record I have spent many hours in OCC and The Summit and have enjoyed myself immensely, I am not a critic or naysayer about RP in the slightest and if you knew me you would know I run www.evefront.com which was a website/system database/free and group organizational tools designed for Roleplaying. Yes it is really bad that the RP alliances seem to have been left out when they decided to stop the whole of eve joining in at once, but please give ccp a chance to show you it on sisi before acting too rashly.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.05.17 18:58:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Major Death
I believe that the message from CCP is 'wait and see as nothing is written in stone'.

Of course what worries people is the FW becomes the only RP show in town, and nothing else happens unless its tied to FW.


This exactly.

He's saying "We have a version finalized and see your point, but aren't sure if we can change it. For now assume it won't but there's always possibility of change"

It's not like he can speak as his company and commit to something, right? No single dev has that power.

OffBeaT
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.17 19:20:00 - [397]
 

Edited by: OffBeaT on 17/05/2008 19:21:49
Originally by: Equinox Daedalus
Edited by: Equinox Daedalus on 17/05/2008 18:50:05
biggest problem i see is there is no "Control" over who is in the rp alliances. who is to say some amarr pro corp joins a minnie alliance just to mess up the minnie alliance events/rp actions to fail so that amarr side can/will win.

no offense but seems utterly ubsurd.


Who says what corps can/will do when they enter the alliance? are there rules to follow? who speaks for you the amarr empire? who controls who is allowed in/out of the alliance....

An alliance of corps is a group of ppl bonded together to perform a speific goal. the alliance exeutor allows the corp in and watches them, and says, okay your not pulling your weitght, or you doing something thats against what we want. so who does/will do that?




i would think we would take orders from the empire, as for who or what corps would lead well i would say your corps deeds and skill at combat would be what earns you rank with others. you never start of in a war as a hero/leader you only end up as one in the end..

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.17 19:57:00 - [398]
 

Quote:
Joining an alliance where we lose that control and just simply anyone can join up -- I am sorry, but that is not appealing at all.


This is why alliances shouldn't be allowed.

Once I join FW I don't want some alliance deciding the decisions in my alliance.

If you guys aren't going to stop whining our newly form factional alliance might just declare war on you.

Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:12:00 - [399]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon

If you guys aren't going to stop whining our newly form factional alliance might just declare war on you.

Now that would be hella sweet.

It's interesting, though, all your talk about control. I'm beginning to think that's more an issue of yours. Most RP alliances just want to participate. I'll be content with wardeccing a factional militia, as I think about it. We're not looking for control, not looking for phat l00tz, for rank, or any of the stuff that will be directly offered to memebers of the militia. Any fool can grind that kind of stuff out.

We want to take part in the new roleplay facilitating mechanics that CCP is finally introducing without abandoning the roleplay we've been doing for years already.

M'ing Pai
The Jagged Edge
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:20:00 - [400]
 

Edited by: M''ing Pai on 17/05/2008 20:25:33
Originally by: Hober Hardin
Edited by: Hober Hardin on 17/05/2008 16:56:18
Edited by: Hober Hardin on 17/05/2008 16:51:25
Thanks for the posts Dionysus o/

Quote:
Technically you have claimed the systems for CVA, and just happen to follow most of the same laws/customs.

Thats the key point imho.. ..now cva (and other rp alliances) simply have to make the choice, do they continue as splinter groups of activists aligned to their respective Empires, or do they disband and fall fully under their banner..


This has been one of my primary points all along, and I foolharily tried to speak RP language to convey it, and was written off as a troll for it.

I'm happy to see some CCP employees come and say it more bluntly.

Edit: I would however like to add that I think the idea that a soverign entity like CVA should have the ability to give sovereignty of their systems to the Amarr empire. The only problem with this I can see is that it removes a portion of 0.0 from possible contention.

Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:24:00 - [401]
 

At this point this is like the woman game.

Woman comes to you with a problem over which she is sorely, sorely vexed. Being a dude, your logic is this: "Woman unhappy, unhappy woman bad. Why woman unhappy? Is fault of problem! Take away problem = take away unhappy = everything good again. K." So you think and think until you figure out how to solve the problem and ta- daa! you solve it and stand there with a big stupid grin on your face expecting this outpouring of joy and gratitude.

But no, she just starts crying. You are frustrated and perplexed.

The reason for this is that when the woman is upset because of a problem, she doesn't want that problem fixed... sometimes that just makes it worse. What she wants is empathy. Never mind that that seems far less useleful to you, that's just how the alien womanlogic works.

*ahem*

Dear RP Community: even though I and others have posted several very sensible and quite effective workarounds which would offer you many Good Times(tm) but which have been completely ignored by you I now understand that the core of the problem is that since your collective salad has not been tossed to your complete satisfaction you believe yourselves to have been cruelly martyred. Oh the humanity! I feel your pain. Crying or Very sad

*gives RP Community a big hug, makes no attempt to grab its ass*

There you go now. All better? Maybe listen to reason now?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:33:00 - [402]
 

Originally by: Rulkez
Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 18:48:22
Originally by: Delezar
Originally by: In4r4
Edited by: In4r4 on 17/05/2008 18:34:24
[...]
the mechanics have also been made so blobs wont do anything quicker, better to have 4 gangs of 50 of taking 4 points than 1 gang of 200 taking 4 times longer to do the same thing.


With the difference, that a couple of 50 people gangs might be fought, while most will run from a 200 man gang. Which will actually allow the blow to progress faster due to a lack of opposition.


The fights the point ?
ok here;s the issue, you bring 200 ships

they bring 4 groups of 50 ships

you go to one point they go to 4.

you run over one point and then wait there while the timer goes down.

you capture one point they capture 3

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:36:00 - [403]
 

Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: MotherMoon

If you guys aren't going to stop whining our newly form factional alliance might just declare war on you.

Now that would be hella sweet.

It's interesting, though, all your talk about control. I'm beginning to think that's more an issue of yours. Most RP alliances just want to participate. I'll be content with wardeccing a factional militia, as I think about it. We're not looking for control, not looking for phat l00tz, for rank, or any of the stuff that will be directly offered to members of the militia. Any fool can grind that kind of stuff out.

We want to take part in the new roleplay facilitating mechanics that CCP is finally introducing without abandoning the roleplay we've been doing for years already.
I don't know you that well though, are you saying your alliance leaders will give up their roles to make way for the alliance they are supporting?

I'm sorry I've been playing for a long time and trust is hard.

I mean older alliances have a sort of... elitism.

I don't want another alliance controlling ours...

Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.17 20:53:00 - [404]
 

Originally by: Tissa
Yes it is really bad that the RP alliances seem to have been left out when they decided to stop the whole of eve joining in at once,

Then we agree.
Quote:
but please give ccp a chance to show you it on sisi before acting too rashly.

acting? i thought we were talkin', here... i'm not planning on ramming a capital into CCP's offices you know Laughing

Seishomaru
Posted - 2008.05.17 21:23:00 - [405]
 

IF CCP thinks that disallowign allainces they can avoid them from shredign FW to pieces they are soo wrong.

If they had kept quiet about this then maybe coudl work. but Do you really believe that goonswarm wil not take a 1 week move 3 thousand members to FW to put everything to pieces? They made worse with the jihadswarm!

Shaikar
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.17 21:25:00 - [406]
 

Originally by: CCP Dionysus
If you dont want to be a sovereign entity, they why become an alliance?


For the extra war slots? Might not be too much to a stretch to imagine a corp making themselves an alliance just for the extra warslots.

Hey, imagine if someone did so purely because of the factional warfare prototype on tranquility only to later find out that that act would exclude them from the release version of FW. The irony! Laughing


CCP Dionysus

Posted - 2008.05.17 21:34:00 - [407]
 

Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Major Death
I believe that the message from CCP is 'wait and see as nothing is written in stone'.

Of course what worries people is the FW becomes the only RP show in town, and nothing else happens unless its tied to FW.


This exactly.

He's saying "We have a version finalized and see your point, but aren't sure if we can change it. For now assume it won't but there's always possibility of change"

It's not like he can speak as his company and commit to something, right? No single dev has that power.


Thank you :)

As with everything in eve, it can be subject to change. This is why we've got the CSM voting etc. We put something together that we like and think that a large portion of the players will like, we put it out to see what you think of it. Once you have played it a while and have to to make informed arguments about good and bad points, and we can see how the server is reacting to it, we'll come up with a FactionalWarfarev1.2 to add more tools for you.

I personally just think that many of you are selling yourselves short. The RP alliances did an awesome job at keeping "immersion" alive and prospering even though the game didn't provide the best of toolsets for RP (NPCs effectively not responding that much etc).

Now we're giving you a new toolset to play with, why do you seem to think that a new tool will make things worse? I love the RP, and I cant wait to see this new release on TQ for my main to get involved...

I'm going to bow out for the moment, and let Grey and the others make their dev blogs to give you more information.

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.05.17 21:55:00 - [408]
 

Originally by: De Sojus
And why wouldn’t the 4 factions call upon big alliances for help – don’t they plan on winning?



"Pride goes before destruction,a haughty spirt before a fall." Proverbs 16:18

Ask yourself..WHY?

Why..would the Empire,Federation,Republic or State of your birth and upbringing deign to acknowledge your Alliance(s)
as equals?

Why..would the entity(s)that trained you and provided for your initial provision and protection(CONCORD)view you as self made and independent? Or do you beleive that CONCORD doesn't cost exorbitant amounts of ISK? Does your Alliance(s)pay for it?

Why..would the 4 factions WANT the help of primarily self-serving private entities to help them march on low-sec and consolidate their claims to this territory?

Have no delusions...FW is about faction expansion,NOT the petty political squabbles and racial prejudice that will be used as a cover for their power mongering.

Or are the Alliances so naive as to believe that the 4 factions would spend decades and TRILLIONS of ISK to develop pod technology,erect an entity at their expense(CONCORD)to govern pod technology and pilots only to....is it dawning on you yet....SERVE them.

Any who believe that "Project Capsuleer" was not a "space fishing trip" sponsored by the 4 factions to plumb the depths of space and to expand their sovreignty is..I am sorry to say a fool.

The 4 factions will now either reel you in...or feed you to the fishes.

Wink

Disclaimer: This post is PURELY my RP perspective. In no way do I not sympathize with Alliances that have worked hard under an ideal and have made the game better for all.

Cheers


Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:02:00 - [409]
 

OK even I know that the pods were developed by the Jovians.

Rulkez
Tribal Core
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:03:00 - [410]
 

Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 22:07:22
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Rulkez
Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 18:48:22
Originally by: Delezar
Originally by: In4r4
Edited by: In4r4 on 17/05/2008 18:34:24
[...]
the mechanics have also been made so blobs wont do anything quicker, better to have 4 gangs of 50 of taking 4 points than 1 gang of 200 taking 4 times longer to do the same thing.


With the difference, that a couple of 50 people gangs might be fought, while most will run from a 200 man gang. Which will actually allow the blow to progress faster due to a lack of opposition.


The fights the point ?
ok here;s the issue, you bring 200 ships

they bring 4 groups of 50 ships

you go to one point they go to 4.

you run over one point and then wait there while the timer goes down.

you capture one point they capture 3


i thinkk you misunderstood me, he was saying 1 200 man gang would be better because it would be unopposed, while i was agreeing 4 x 50 man gangs with the chance of an actual fight would be better

Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:11:00 - [411]
 

Originally by: CCP Dionysus
As with everything in eve, it can be subject to change. This is why we've got the CSM voting etc. We put something together that we like and think that a large portion of the players will like, we put it out to see what you think of it. Once you have played it a while and have to to make informed arguments about good and bad points, and we can see how the server is reacting to it, we'll come up with a FactionalWarfarev1.2 to add more tools for you.

Fair enough. And thanks for the kind words.
Gotta remember this is a sandbox for the devs as much as it is for us.
They don't know WTF we're gonna do to any greater degree than we do at this stage.

...and they probably fear it more Laughing

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:15:00 - [412]
 

Originally by: Rulkez
Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 22:07:22
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Rulkez
Edited by: Rulkez on 17/05/2008 18:48:22
Originally by: Delezar
Originally by: In4r4
Edited by: In4r4 on 17/05/2008 18:34:24
[...]
the mechanics have also been made so blobs wont do anything quicker, better to have 4 gangs of 50 of taking 4 points than 1 gang of 200 taking 4 times longer to do the same thing.


With the difference, that a couple of 50 people gangs might be fought, while most will run from a 200 man gang. Which will actually allow the blow to progress faster due to a lack of opposition.


The fights the point ?
ok here;s the issue, you bring 200 ships

they bring 4 groups of 50 ships

you go to one point they go to 4.

you run over one point and then wait there while the timer goes down.

you capture one point they capture 3


i thinkk you misunderstood me, he was saying 1 200 man gang would be better because it would be unopposed, while i was agreeing 4 x 50 man gangs with the chance of an actual fight would be better


opps lol doh :P

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:31:00 - [413]
 

Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
OK even I know that the pods were developed by the Jovians.


Yes..true...to an extent.

Initially the technology that was shared by the Jovians was for non-Jovians very alien and deadly to non-Jovians.

The 4 factions have spent a century or more adapting that technology to better suit non-Jovians....and that was not cheap.

Even now pod technology is far from perfected and only the elite amongst humanity(the players) can use it.

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:55:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake

I can sort of see the point of that, but it sounds as though existing alliances will be able to war-dec these faction militias.

And on top of that, you're forgetting that there's corps out there with a thousand members.


To the first, I think I see this as still a 'maybe'. It runs counter to us having been told explicitly that there will be no 'against' sign-up option (as opposed to sign-up to support and you get these enemies). I guess we wait and see. At minimum we need to be able to war-dec individual corporations that chose to align with factional militias.

To the latter point, quite.

No gameplay reason given so far for the decision not to allow alliances to sign up makes any sense as the big alliances can always get round it by using legion corporations to enter into FW.

RP alliances may or may not use the same device. I would guess almost all would not wish to do so because their alliance and its history is part of their roleplay.

I suppose we wait and see what is in the dev blogs and work out what can be done on the test server.

It's funny really. Being in SF, I had pretty much settled for SF being excluded so long as we could still use war-decs to target specific corporations and disrupt a given faction's milita supporters.

I'm amazed at the bitter pill being presented to loyalist alliances though. Simply amazed.

I'm inclined to think we're all going to have to settle for some kind of work-around... and by all, I include CCP. These are the very people who spent time in and out of game to help you develop and test the mechanics of FW. Almost everyone who actively took part in the Bleak Lands testing was in an RP alliance. As I say, I'm just amazed.

Cosmo


EveJoker
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.05.17 23:31:00 - [415]
 

Here is a quote from the dev blog:
Quote:
What it is, right now, is in its most basic form a gameplay bridge from high sec to null sec – from the safety of Empire to the wild lands of Alliance space. High sec and null sec have very differing communities of players with very divergent play styles, and while moving from one to the other is obviously possible, it's harder than it should be.

Factional Warfare provides a halfway house for players from Empire to get into the sandbox at the shallow end. It serves other functions too, for other types of player, but this is its primary function.


Assuming that as is stated, its a new tool to introduce players to pvp and role play, why do the RP alliances feel the need to be involved at all? While I am sure there are some members who need to be introduced to pvp in the "shallow end" I dont think its the intent of this war to have every amarr aligned alliance fighting every minmatar aligned alliance and the associated blobatry.

Look at it for what it is. A excellent tool to introduce and tempt new players into a new area of eve. A smart RP alliance would offer assistance to the appropriate faction and scoop the players that want more, not try to run it, own it, or act like spoilt kids that think they are missing out on something.

Alliances have the choice to fight whoever they want. FW is about fighting the backstory in eve. A mixture of the two will dilute what both FW and RP alliances. IMHO its better a player has choices.

Lastly lets see what ccp actually release and get some more details before all jumping the gun. While CVA might feel they desperatly need to enter pvp at the shallow end and get their pilots used to 0.0 I hope this isnt the case for most RP alliances.

cal nereus
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.17 23:45:00 - [416]
 

I imagine that huge, self-sufficient sovereign states/empires spanning hundreds of systems would prefer to do things alone. Just a thought. Razz

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.18 01:28:00 - [417]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 18/05/2008 01:29:31
Ok, I'll throw this out there, since i didn't see it in this thread.

Note this dose not apply to CVA, they are pretty unique, and will need some thing else.

For all the non space holding RP Alliances:

You've held on for 5 years, waiting for factional warfare to come, so you can defend your chosen side. You've fought, you've died, you've won massive victories that are still told round the ol rp table at night.

You have history.

Welcome to the next chapter in your illustrious alliances history. You don't hold space, and your corps (don't take offense) are largely unheard of. But your alliance name is simply that, just a name. So adapt here. Follow me, this may get complicated. Your alliance is strong (assumption) and your members are all happy with the alliance they live in. They all want to RP in this conflict, to show your power, and pride.

Can you all come to an agreement on a ruling council for a NEW corp, named after the alliance you would be leaving behind? Perhaps CCP could even help you out by moving things along and deleting the old name out of the database to usher you along a little. Ushra'Khan would cease to be (insert corp number here) corps, and become one, led by the CEO's of each as a ruling council that made choices as a unit.

Yes, you loose your alliance...you don't hold space, so essentially your just saving yourselves ISK, AND you get to show off and represent your faction.

You love EVE, you love your rp stuff, this is a valid, honor saving tactic that CAN work, if your really interested in doing this.

Again, sorry CVA, this won't work for you, your boned, and I feel for you.

BUT, for the rest of you, you have used the system for 5 years to come up with your own form of faction warfare (by using mechanics to help you out). Now the faction warfare is out here, and you will once again have to use the system provided to take part, but it will be a more proper part. Imagine if all you RP guys actually did this, and actually got involved in it, Empire would burn.

Oh, and what the hell is everybody calling this like "WoW battlegrounds" for....are you mental? Nothing in EVE is ever instanced...NOTHING...EVER. Have you even played the game your making so many comments about? It doesn't sound like it.

Anyway, thats a possible sollution for the non space holding groups, CVA may want to open direct communication with CCP, you never know what a few "peace talks" could bring about for you guys. I seriously think most alliances will simply create a corp for it, and you will be a VERY special exception that will need to be addressed.

Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Posted - 2008.05.18 01:54:00 - [418]
 

Ok, personally I have decided my course of action.

1) I will be taking gangs into low sec war zones and causing havoc to the Amarrian militias efforts. This is without Council sanction at this point but my money says Karn will just pass us some extra ammo and shout "Fly my pretties! Fly!" Twisted Evil

2) I will take a fairly low skilled alt and sign up for the Republic militia. I just want to see it from the inside and try and inject some RP into things. I am a role-player, I want to see more people try RP and enjoy it so I'll lead by example. I like the idea of RPing a grunt Rifter pilot who has signed up and has to get used to flying with a bunch of random guys in his unit. Must watch Platoon before undocking Very Happy

3) Wait and see how FW develops.

Personally I am excited, I see ways to RP around the no alliance rule. I do have some questions, I don't plan to jump on SiSi (buggered up all my settings last time I tried) so if anyone can get back to me on this or if CCP can shed some light....

A) As raised before, who has control on militia membership? Back in E-ON 2 it was suggested CCP employees would operate via NPCs as militia leaders. What is to stop large groups joining the enemy militia just to mess things up?

B) How are you planning to balance against blob tactics? Not just in terms of 300 ships vs 2 frigates but in raw troop numbers. The early concern was that the Caldari are the most common race, what is to stop the Caldari Militia just steam rollering the rest of the cluster?

C) I would imagine with the investment in FW it is a mechanic you want in place for some time. I doubt we will see the end of this war within the space of a few years if at all. How does any faction 'win' without bringing an end to FW? (I can understand you not answering this one, it's like Kirk looking into the camera and informing us that the Enterprise won't blow up because it will be needed in next weeks episode.)

Yes, I am curious. Yes, I should make the effort to get on SiSi but RL keeps me really busy at the moment. Yes I should just STFU and wait patiently.


... are we there yet?Laughing


- A day in the militia is like a day on the farm. Every meal a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade. -

Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Posted - 2008.05.18 02:24:00 - [419]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
..
Can you all come to an agreement on a ruling council for a NEW corp, named after the alliance you would be leaving behind? Perhaps CCP could even help you out by moving things along and deleting the old name out of the database to usher you along a little. Ushra'Khan would cease to be (insert corp number here) corps, and become one, led by the CEO's of each as a ruling council that made choices as a unit..


This idea certainly has merit and it is one that has come up in alliance. My take on this (and I know many of not most in U'K agree) in terms of Ushra'Khan is a flat 'no'. Not being difficult, our scenario is not as clear cut in RP terms. We are Matari but we are not Republicans (ok, some of us still have loyalties to the Republic, we are tribal, it's never easy to speak in absolutes). For us to just join the Republic Fleet after '1 ISK For Midular' or after helping Muritor defect while stealing a large chunk of Republic Fleet hardware would be a crime against RP.

Now, when war breaks out we, as a fringe element of Matari Freedom Fighters, will continue to fight the Amarr just as we have been doing for years. That is Amarr supporting player factions as well as NPCs like the Amarr navy or the Saracens in the Bleak Lands. I will not serve Midular though, my loyalty is to the Ushra'Khan.

In time I can see Midular losing power and someone like Shakor (who is a Brutor Defiant just like Muritor as well as a famous freedom fighter) taking over. At that point in RP terms I would expect to see the Defiants welcomed back to the fold and groups like Ushra'Khan brought in from the cold as allies, not militia members.

In game terms I see the first stages of FW focusing on the smaller units of corps and individuals. In time I see the mechanics extended to bring closer interaction with alliances. Maybe a whole new model, alliance level agents, alliance wide standings, alliance wide LP to be spent and distributed by the Executor perhaps? In essence alliances should be treated as sovereign allies to the militia, not militia themselves.

The Ushra'Khan are the third oldest alliance in the game. To the best of my knowledge we are the only player alliance to inspire the creation of an NPC group (The Bloody Hands of Matar) rather than the other way round. In my opinion there is not enough justification in this for us to take down the blood fist banner so we can join up with Midular's Militia. In RP terms why would Telemicus want to give up being a Wing Commander in the Ushra'Khan to be a militia grunt. We have been fighting this war for years, this is not about Ushra'Khan coming to help the Republic, this is about the Republic finally coming to help us! ( Razz )

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For groups like PIE or EM I would think this is a stronger option. After all they are totally supportive and loyal to the factions that inspired them. As they have stated, they want to retain the artwork, tools and membership filtering that comes with being a sovereign entity. For them this will be a hard choice.

Rob Otosan
Posted - 2008.05.18 09:18:00 - [420]
 

How about faction militia's stay as they are with only corps and individuals allowed to fly for them, where as alliances are able to align themselves to a faction directly outside of the militia.
This would mean affectively the aligned alliance falls under the empire they have chosen to represent, so all the rules applying to the militia apply to them, and any outposts or sovereignty they hold goes to the empire they have chosen to represent. A downside to this which would put off many sovereign alliances would mean the outposts are empire controlled meaning anyone can dock there.

As an example Amarr would look like this:

Militia (NPC Controlled)
CVA
VV
etc etc


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