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Ivy Axisur
Posted - 2008.05.08 19:57:00 - [1]
 

Have the devs commented recently on the suicide gank?
Iíve seen SO many posts on this but no dev comments.

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:06:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Plave Okice on 08/05/2008 20:06:17
Originally by: CCP
Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ďkamikazeĒ attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipís wreck.

This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.



Read

Ivy Axisur
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:13:00 - [3]
 

How old is that article?

This situation seems to be getting out of hand. I see it almost daily.
It hasnít happened to me yet, but since there is no defense against it, it seems like a clear case of harassment.



Heartcarver
Goat Gangbangers
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:17:00 - [4]
 

Gankers are almost always in .5-.7 and in major pipelines. Don't wanna get ganked, tank your ship, don't fly afk, bring a remote repper if needs be. It's only out of hand because so many people do stupid things allowing themselves to get ganked. Its worth a little sec status for a bil isk profit in 5 minutes...

The problem is autopilot and laziness, there are ways to avoid it regardless...

Ivy Axisur
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:34:00 - [5]
 

Is there really prevention? Or are you just guessing?
Other than not flying anything good which is a lame solution, and ruling out having a logistics escort with you at all times (my eve friends have better things to do). Is there really a defense?

Iím not stupid, never afk in a valuable ship or with valuable cargo; but Iíve been seeing fitted mission battleships who where clearly not afk get ganked and killed in less time than it took concord to respond in .6

But anyways, I donít want this to turn into another gank thread, just wondering if the reality of this situation is being addressed or if CCP is still assuming that it only happens to the lazy, macros, and akf.

Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:41:00 - [6]
 

It's not always fun and games, you know YARRRR!!

Lunch Money
The Scope
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Heartcarver
Gankers are almost always in .5-.7 and in major pipelines. Don't wanna get ganked, tank your ship, don't fly afk, bring a remote repper if needs be. It's only out of hand because so many people do stupid things allowing themselves to get ganked. Its worth a little sec status for a bil isk profit in 5 minutes...

The problem is autopilot and laziness, there are ways to avoid it regardless...

You realy dont have a clue about how ganking looks like.
You jump to system where you have mission, at gate there are like 5-7 ravens waiting for you. you are dead at this point and nothing will help you. if you try to warp out they will scram you and pop you, same if you log off. no defence. NO WAY TO SCOUT becouse you never know if those guys are just waiting for someone with who they are in war.
EVE is lossing much becouse of those grefiers and CCP isnt doing anything.
PPL who will lose a lot of isk becouse of those exploits and other bugs will LEAVE GAME -> CCP lossing money

Drair Malone
Gallente
Don't U Forget
Last Refuge
Posted - 2008.05.08 21:01:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lunch Money

You realy dont have a clue about how ganking looks like.
You jump to system where you have mission, at gate there are like 5-7 ravens waiting for you. you are dead at this point and nothing will help you. if you try to warp out they will scram you and pop you, same if you log off. no defence. NO WAY TO SCOUT becouse you never know if those guys are just waiting for someone with who they are in war.
EVE is lossing much becouse of those grefiers and CCP isnt doing anything.
PPL who will lose a lot of isk becouse of those exploits and other bugs will LEAVE GAME -> CCP lossing money


On the other side of the coin, more people will be attracted to the game when they see how free-form the options are when it comes to what you can and can't do in the game.

There will be a constant influx of new players wheras the chance of someone quitting over being suicide ganked isn't always 100%. It's simple business, when you figure it out, let us know.

Gentle Miner
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.05.08 21:20:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Gentle Miner on 08/05/2008 22:47:17

There should be some module or skill to prevent scanning, give false/incomplete results or at the very least an indicator telling you that you have been scanned and possibly by what type of scanner and who is doing the scanning. In this game everything generally has a counter (At least that's how it appears to me) so why can't people counter the ship/cargo scanning? again it favours the <Blah> who want to act like <Blah> in the game.

Replace <Blah> with whatever fits.

I'm tired of hearing that Eve is a harsh and cold game because I know it isn't the game that's harsh and cold it's just some people.

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2008.05.08 21:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ivy Axisur
This situation seems to be getting out of hand. I see it almost daily.
It hasnít happened to me yet, but since there is no defense against it, it seems like a clear case of harassment.


It has always been this way, there's just more people whining about it now.

Want to avoid it? Don't be a target, it's simple.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2008.05.08 22:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Plave Okice

It has always been this way, there's just more people whining about it now.

Want to avoid it? Don't be a target, it's simple.

Quote for truth. Never been suicided although ive afk'ed lots of times while studying so ive spotted people scanning me and stuff like that. I just never carry anything worth suiciding in one haul, simple as that. If I do I dont afk and if im scanned i just dock at the next station and finish hauling later.

Ivy Axisur
Posted - 2008.05.08 22:23:00 - [12]
 

Carebears donít play games where they are harassed.

Pirates donít play games where they have no targets.

To quote myself:
ďItís ironic that the gankers, greifers, and so called ďhard coreĒ players are too stupid to realize that the more they boost themselves to make their chosen path easier the fewer targets they have.

Perhaps their most outstanding hypocrisy is their constant crying about risk vs. reward. The real hardcore players are the 0.0 combatants and empires they protect. Not the lazy who avoid PVP at all costs until they find an easy target to overpower.Ē

Hanneshannes
Posted - 2008.05.08 23:20:00 - [13]
 

Don't make yourself a target.

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.08 23:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Plave Okice
Edited by: Plave Okice on 08/05/2008 20:06:17
Originally by: CCP
Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ďkamikazeĒ attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipís wreck.

This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.



Read


Seems like this statement refers to ganking of haulers. In another thread a dev said they don't want to change the insurance payout to gankers because some newbs who mistakenly fire a smartbomb might leave the game if their frigate isn't reimbursed.

Tbh i think the devs are out of touch with what is currently going on on TQ. A combination of overheat and torp dps boost made ganking easier than ever before, and the current ship prices (86m for a raven, which then costs less than 10m (+ few mil. for t1 gear) after insurance) makes it cheaper than ever before. It's getting more and more a mass phenomenon in contrast of the occasional gank here and there in the past.

And it starts to take it's toll, check out the current user online alltime graph ->here

The longer the devs wait with a fix, the bigger the damage for the game, i hope they act soon.


Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.08 23:55:00 - [15]
 

the worst in suicide ganking is the fact how easy it is to create suicide character and then biomass him when his security status is below acceptable... 2 days of training for any character and you can get destroyers lvl 3, guns lvl 3

combat oriented characters will sometimes start with frigate lvl 5, missiles/guns lvl 5 - these do not require any training. They go ganking right away.

if you need a Battleship ganker character, you training time varies from 5 days to 2 weeks, and then you can do simple mission to keep security status high enough (provided that you do not want to biomass the character)

If you go ganking with your main, then it is your risk... If you throw tons of suicide alts, made for biomassing, now i am offended.

Suicide ganking is too easy, especially when others main characters have expensive tech 2 modules in high sec


Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.09 00:20:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Opertone
the worst in suicide ganking is the fact how easy it is to create suicide character and then biomass him when his security status is below acceptable... 2 days of training for any character and you can get destroyers lvl 3, guns lvl 3

combat oriented characters will sometimes start with frigate lvl 5, missiles/guns lvl 5 - these do not require any training. They go ganking right away.

if you need a Battleship ganker character, you training time varies from 5 days to 2 weeks, and then you can do simple mission to keep security status high enough (provided that you do not want to biomass the character)

If you go ganking with your main, then it is your risk... If you throw tons of suicide alts, made for biomassing, now i am offended.

Suicide ganking is too easy, especially when others main characters have expensive tech 2 modules in high sec




a.) The vast majority of suicide gankers are not alts.
b.) You should petition those that are alts.
c.) Quit spewing disinformation all over the forums.

Originally by: Opertone
Suicide ganking is too easy, especially when others main characters have expensive tech 2 modules in high sec


lol @ "expensive T2 mods"

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.09 00:58:00 - [17]
 

by expensive i mean hulk's tech II strip miner, tech II mining upgrade, tech II shield tank

besides, haulers have expensive items in their cargo holds, you go for the cargo

suicide alts do not bring expensive tech 2 modules, they bring cheap tech 1, that cost 30 thousand isk on the market

ganking with mains is not impossible, but there is less danger from the mains... the danger comes from the alt toons

why would I be able to petition suicide atls?

where is disinformation?

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.09 02:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Opertone

suicide alts do not bring expensive tech 2 modules, they bring cheap tech 1, that cost 30 thousand isk on the market



Suicide alt's typically don't gank anything other than shuttles and maybe frigates. That being said, I've yet to see a so-called "suicide alt" all the suicide gankers I've seen have been mains. Do you know why? Support skills. Mains have them, alts don't, and they (most of the time) contribute more to alpha/overall DPS than the racial ship skills and racial weapon skills. There is easily a 50% difference in DPS/alpha between an alt that is minimally able to fly a ship and use its weapons, and a main that is properly specced in said ship and has the supporting skills to back it up. This is a very big difference. Gankers. Do. Not. Use. Alts (99% of the time).

Originally by: Opertone

why would I be able to petition suicide atls?



Because it's against the rules and multiple Devs have stated such. You cannot recycle characters to get around the security status penalties.

Originally by: Opertone

where is disinformation?



Your posts are full of it, intentional or otherwise. You have demonstrated that you have, at best, a limited familiarity with suicide ganking; and as such, your posts tend to be incorrect. From my perspective, it seems you are either parroting that which others on this forum have (incorrectly) said, or distorting facts in an attempt to make suicide ganking appear easier, more lucrative, and more prevalent than it actually is.

Valentina Gallatoire
Posted - 2008.05.09 05:35:00 - [19]
 


Honestly, I wish CCP would make suicide ganking easier and more profitable. Hell, I wish CONCORD would just go on strike for a month and stop showing up at all. Maybe that would cause these whinging losers to leave the game and stop posting threads like this. You don't want to get ganked? Don't make yourself a target. You run a risk every time you undock. This risk is lesser or greater depending on what security space you frequent and what sort of ship you fly, but the risk is always present. If risk is unacceptable to you then perhaps you are playing the wrong game.

/me facepalms.







Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.05.09 07:14:00 - [20]
 

There is no (realistic) defense from suicide ganking. A flock of logistic ships is not a counter, it's just stupid.
There is no real cost to do it.
There is no way to not be a valuable target.

Your best best it to not undock in anything worth shooting for any reason. Or fly in super fast small ships if you do. Because gankers in practice will shoot whatever comes their way if they get bored, whether it's worth 200 or 20 mil. Because they are still making almost pure profit.

Knobbing Everyone
Posted - 2008.05.09 07:31:00 - [21]
 

Well from the obvious pirate posts here I guess we'll see more high-sec ganks, and in a few months, when they can't find anything but chinese isk farmers to gank, they will be repeating the whining about not being able to find targets anywhere..

Killed everything killable in low sec, whine on forums about lack of targets. Try kill in 0.0, but find that having 2 carriers, 1 mothership and support fleet drop in on them isn't fun, whine about stupid blobbing, and capitals being overpowered. Go to high-sec, suicide gank (t1 mods are far cheaper than polycarb'd recons after allVery Happy) and whine about Concord...

Welcome to Yarr online?Twisted Evil

Hanneshannes
Posted - 2008.05.09 07:43:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Wet Ferret
There is no (realistic) defense from suicide ganking. A flock of logistic ships is not a counter, it's just stupid.
There is no real cost to do it.
There is no way to not be a valuable target.

Your best best it to not undock in anything worth shooting for any reason. Or fly in super fast small ships if you do. Because gankers in practice will shoot whatever comes their way if they get bored, whether it's worth 200 or 20 mil. Because they are still making almost pure profit.


Since when is a T2 fitted battleship a valuable target? You spend maybe 200-250M on such a ship and most of it are the ship and rigs which can't be recovered if it is destroyed...

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.05.09 07:55:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Hanneshannes
Originally by: Wet Ferret
There is no (realistic) defense from suicide ganking. A flock of logistic ships is not a counter, it's just stupid.
There is no real cost to do it.
There is no way to not be a valuable target.

Your best best it to not undock in anything worth shooting for any reason. Or fly in super fast small ships if you do. Because gankers in practice will shoot whatever comes their way if they get bored, whether it's worth 200 or 20 mil. Because they are still making almost pure profit.


Since when is a T2 fitted battleship a valuable target? You spend maybe 200-250M on such a ship and most of it are the ship and rigs which can't be recovered if it is destroyed...


I was referring to mainly hauling practices. Sorry for not being clearer Razz Ofc the average mission ship doesn't have much to worry about, as it will probably be tanked enough to survive a ganker or two.

NRGsting
Posted - 2008.05.09 10:36:00 - [24]
 

The problem with Eve Online in the cu current stage is that it's exactly like the Southpark episode called "Make love not WoW". The problem is even more serious in Eve since there are far more "no life" players that can kill everyone with little or no consequence. So... if you are a 5 mil. sp. or less casual player looking to relax and have fun a couple of hours a day in an MMO, then tough. You will soon realize that there are no such things as safety or enjoyable experience in this game mainly because there are no safe areas and the developers don't really care about new players (30000 subscribers is enough). And don't think that killing boars in the forest for one month will level up your char. to the point that gankers will think twice about killing you. 200 mil sp won't help you either as 100 10 mil sp ships > all. All the answers you'll get for whining is a ******ed "Don't be a target" comment from a no life looser whose main goal in life is to kill as many noobs as possible (coz he's like the noob killer ugh).
My advice to CCP is to look closer into the basics of what makes a successful MMO and treat all their players as costumers looking for an enjoyable experience. Oh.. and before I get comments like "go back to wow" .. Shuv it. I never played wow i was just making a sarcastic comparison.
Why do I bother?? No idea.

Blancanieves
X-Ray Industries
United Pod Service
Posted - 2008.05.09 11:00:00 - [25]
 

That you can't see if you're being scanned might be bad, I agree that there should be some way to protect against it. Being scanned is probably the best evidence of being considered as a target for ganks.

But you know what? You could use the scanner yourself and find out what those Ravens waiting at the next gate have fitted or in their cargo. If they have expensive gear fitted, they're probably not suicide gankers and waiting for war targets instead...

You could also collect intel on suicide gankers and share your knowledge with other carebears. Nothing prevents you from doing so. You could even infiltrate the local suicide gankers in your area :).

As a last note, maybe it's time for CCP to finally show all fitted weapons on a ship, not only the turrets. This is a clear advantage for ships with neuts, missile launchers and other offensive weapons other than turrets. From the turrets you can easily tell what type of turret and if it's tech 2. Give us that info for missile launchers etc., too!

Sun Zhaou
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.05.09 11:42:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Sun Zhaou on 09/05/2008 11:42:38
1) Avoid HUBs
2) Web the freighter
3) Deap space/‹ber faction moduls are for kids with lots of USD
4) Avoid the bloody mission HUBs!

Pop the suicided guy's wreck. I have done it for a couple of hauler's wreck in Sivala.
You should have seen the local chat after that. YARRRR!!

Hanneshannes
Posted - 2008.05.09 13:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sun Zhaou
Edited by: Sun Zhaou on 09/05/2008 11:42:38
1) Avoid HUBs
2) Web the freighter
3) Deap space/‹ber faction moduls are for kids with lots of USD
4) Avoid the bloody mission HUBs!

Pop the suicided guy's wreck. I have done it for a couple of hauler's wreck in Sivala.
You should have seen the local chat after that. YARRRR!!


Hehe, yeah :D

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.09 13:11:00 - [28]
 

high sec penalty as death to concord should reduce you security status lower than in low sec...
this fixes it, kill 3 ships, die to concord 3 times and you become -1.0 - this is fair solution

punish suicide gankers with higher penalties of being killed by CONCORD

if you mess with CONCORD then you are a bad criminal - killing in empire high sec is more severe crime than killing in low sec

it will solve it

Blancanieves
X-Ray Industries
United Pod Service
Posted - 2008.05.09 14:05:00 - [29]
 

On average, you already get harder sec hits when committing a crime in high sec than when doing it in low sec: The sec hit depends on your current sec status. Of course you need a higher sec status for being in high sec, so your sec hit will be greater. So why add an additional variable?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.09 15:10:00 - [30]
 

OMFG JUST SHUT THE **** UP SERIOUSLY SHUT THE **** UP, OMG WHY THE HELL WONT YOU GUYS SHUT THE HELL UP!!! ITS YOUR OWN GOD DAMN FAULT, SERIOUSLY ITS NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN*!!!



*getting jihad swarmed maybe not really your fault. where it is your fault is when mining ice in a cluster of 8 with civ shield booster tanks


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