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Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2008.04.23 22:20:00 - [1]
 

Why do the drone users dont get any love?

Why dont we have damage mods for drones?
Why dont we have damage rigs for drones? (besides the sentry ones, but what is with other drones?)
Why dont we have any implants which improve our drones?
Why cant we overheat our drones?

And btw did drones got the hp boost too in the hp boost patch?

Where is the drone LOVE?

Mr Friendly
The Lost and The Damned
Posted - 2008.04.23 22:33:00 - [2]
 

damage mods were tested and found to be overpowered

rigs would likely end up op as well

there are skills for increasing speed, hp, optimal etc...all those are indirect damage
boosts for drones... implants might be nice, but the way stacking in this game works,
very quickly becomes overpowered.

overloading a seperate ship doesn't make any sense... drones aren't mods

a hp boost might be nice given shields no longer refilling upon scooping, but isn't a huge lack currently

Drones boats are pretty strong at the moment, tbh.

William Darkk
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.04.23 23:15:00 - [3]
 

I'd like to see a mod that boosted drone resists. Like "Drone Damage Control".

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.04.23 23:32:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mr Friendly
damage mods were tested and found to be overpowered

rigs would likely end up op as well



That mean that damage mods for guns/missiles are overpowered?

I fail to see how one can be overpowered and the other not.

Modules require the use of a slot, probably a high slot for damage mods, maybe they will use cap, have a range not necessarily equivalent to those at wick the drone can operate, ecc., plenty of way to balance them.

Rigs, again can have several drawbacks, for example less bandwidth, CPU usage, grid usage.

It seem more the "drones were a bad idea, they require too much computation power, we should discourage the use of drones" line of thought than a balance issue.

If you look any change in drones in the last year has been negative and even before there was not a positive change in the last two years while there was at least 1 indirect negative change (no buff of hp or damage when ship hp have been buffed).

"Faction" drones are a joke. Beside the incredible rarity they have practically no advantage against the equivalent standard drone. The advantage in HP and speed is more than compensated by the split damage, for PvE it is only a drawback and I hardly see how it can be an advantage in PvP.

Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.24 00:31:00 - [5]
 

Oh come on.

Arbitrator
Vexor
Thorax (yes, it has a large dronebay for being a cruiser)
Rupture (not quite as large as the Thorax, but still)
Myrmidon
Harbinger
Brutix
Armageddon
Megathron
Dominix
Typhoon

All of these ships have some of the largest dronebays in their class.
Notice something else? They're also regarded as some of the best ships in their class.
Yes, even the Typhoon (although it requires mad skills in drones, missiles, navigation and guns).

Commander Thrawn
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.04.24 00:34:00 - [6]
 

ya those drone boats they sure are the sucks Rolling Eyes

Koramaur
Gallente
Amistad Annihilate
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.04.24 04:36:00 - [7]
 

Drone hitpoint rig wouldn't be bad, though I really don't see anyone using it over anything else so it would more than likely end up a useless module.

Lego Maniac
Posted - 2008.04.24 05:44:00 - [8]
 

OP is a troll

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.04.24 06:33:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Oh come on.

Arbitrator
Vexor
Thorax (yes, it has a large dronebay for being a cruiser)
Rupture (not quite as large as the Thorax, but still)
Myrmidon
Harbinger
Brutix
Armageddon
Megathron
Dominix
Typhoon

All of these ships have some of the largest dronebays in their class.
Notice something else? They're also regarded as some of the best ships in their class.
Yes, even the Typhoon (although it requires mad skills in drones, missiles, navigation and guns).


That has little to do with why there aren't more modules/rigs affecting drones at the cost of other options. It is about giving more options, not about increasing the power at no cost.

If a Thorax had the option of increasing his drone damage at the cost of 1 high slot I doubt it would result overpowered.

Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Posted - 2008.04.24 06:38:00 - [10]
 

Bah, who needs drone damage mods when we have this skill Drone Interfacing

Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.24 07:00:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul

That has little to do with why there aren't more modules/rigs affecting drones at the cost of other options. It is about giving more options, not about increasing the power at no cost.

If a Thorax had the option of increasing his drone damage at the cost of 1 high slot I doubt it would result overpowered.


Maybe not the Thorax since it's a Guncruiser with Drone support.

But the Arbitrator, Vexor or the Dominix?
Oh boy...

dolmant
Posted - 2008.04.24 07:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Oh come on.

Arbitrator
Vexor
Thorax (yes, it has a large dronebay for being a cruiser)
Rupture (not quite as large as the Thorax, but still)
Myrmidon
Harbinger
Brutix
Armageddon
Megathron
Dominix
Typhoon

All of these ships have some of the largest dronebays in their class.
Notice something else? They're also regarded as some of the best ships in their class.
Yes, even the Typhoon (although it requires mad skills in drones, missiles, navigation and guns).


That has little to do with why there aren't more modules/rigs affecting drones at the cost of other options. It is about giving more options, not about increasing the power at no cost.

If a Thorax had the option of increasing his drone damage at the cost of 1 high slot I doubt it would result overpowered.


It would not, but what sort of requirements are we talking here?
High cpu? then these monsters would be easily able to fit massive armor tank and neut setup, or this could fit on many people's current setups, in their spare high slot like my domi has, acting like a direct drone boat boost, which we all agree is not required.
High powergrid? Then x-large shield booster would fit like a dream on something like a dominix (which many pilots currently fly relying on drone dps alone), whilst damage dealing (in the realms over 500 dps) is taken care of by ammo less, cap less, bonus ed weapons, that don't (initially) require fitting. This could dramatically change game play, with an increase in the use of smart bombs, etc, requiring even more balancing.

The domi is now acceptable because it cannot fit a full setup, e.g. it cannot fit all heavy neuts and a tank, etc without grid modules.

Also, even if you consider this a stupid/illogical argument, i would prefer CCP put more work into bug fixing, streamlining, and developing ambulation ;) than have to then spend ages re balancing these drone boats for a single extra module a lot of the eve community feels is unnecessary.

My 2 isk

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.04.24 07:30:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zubakis
Why do the drone users dont get any love?

Why dont we have damage mods for drones?
Why dont we have damage rigs for drones? (besides the sentry ones, but what is with other drones?)
Why dont we have any implants which improve our drones?
Why cant we overheat our drones?

And btw did drones got the hp boost too in the hp boost patch?

Where is the drone LOVE?



You need to work on your poetry skills; it wasn't that good, IMO.

Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2008.04.24 08:23:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Lego Maniac
OP is a troll


OP is not a troll, gtfo alt.

So why are damage mods/rigs for guns and missiles are not overpowered?
Why are implants for guns and missiles are not overpowered?

Jeetah
Posted - 2008.04.24 09:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Lego Maniac
OP is a troll


OP is not a troll, gtfo alt.

So why are damage mods/rigs for guns and missiles are not overpowered?
Why are implants for guns and missiles are not overpowered?



Because as others have stated above, there's already a skill that doubles all drone damage.
And because, quite frankly, all this drone businness is overpowered, because a large drone bay (especialy if it comes with drone bonuses) can free up all your highslots, which is why CCP nerfed nos in the first place. You're not supposed to do uber damage without weapons imho.


Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2008.04.24 09:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jeetah
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: Lego Maniac
OP is a troll


OP is not a troll, gtfo alt.

So why are damage mods/rigs for guns and missiles are not overpowered?
Why are implants for guns and missiles are not overpowered?



Because as others have stated above, there's already a skill that doubles all drone damage.
And because, quite frankly, all this drone businness is overpowered, because a large drone bay (especialy if it comes with drone bonuses) can free up all your highslots, which is why CCP nerfed nos in the first place. You're not supposed to do uber damage without weapons imho.


So one skill equates to all the things you can do with gun/missiles? You have so much posibilites to increase your gun damage: skills, implants, modules (faction modules, yummy), rigs, faction & t2 ammo and heat. What options do you have as drone user? Yeah, some skills and t2(faction) drones.

And lol, NOS was nerfed because it was a broken module, drones have nothing to do with it.

And you forget something, this uber damage you speaking of is destroyable.

shiro kiu
Posted - 2008.04.24 10:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Zubakis

And you forget something, this uber damage you speaking of is destroyable.



And its destroyable by a 2mil sp drake pilot.

Jeetah
Posted - 2008.04.24 11:54:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Jeetah on 24/04/2008 11:54:36
Originally by: Zubakis
So one skill equates to all the things you can do with gun/missiles? You have so much posibilites to increase your gun damage: skills, implants, modules (faction modules, yummy), rigs, faction & t2 ammo and heat.


in other words, a missile/gun boat needs all these things to make up for what a single skill can do with drones.

Originally by: Zubakis
And lol, NOS was nerfed because it was a broken module, drones have nothing to do with it.


Nos was only broken on certain ships, like typhoon, domi, eos, pilgrin, curse, etc. Ships that don't need their highslots to kill stuff. Nobody was concerned about nos-ruptures afaik.

Originally by: Zubakis

And you forget something, this uber damage you speaking of is destroyable.



Which is why i'm happy about drone boats being as uber as they are. But you see, all ships have a weakness. In exchange for your drones being destroyable, you're partially immune to ECM / sensor dampener (since your drones will go after the target even if you can't lock them), totally immune to tracking disruptor, and still have a couple of very useful higslots.

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:13:00 - [19]
 

And the reason there are no named drones and drone mods is? There would be OP too? You have not just plethora of mods but faction ammo too, drone users have zilch.

Tell me any good reason besides CCP is utterly and completely lazy.

Dahak2150
Arm of Orion
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Forge Lag
And the reason there are no named drones and drone mods is? There would be OP too? You have not just plethora of mods but faction ammo too, drone users have zilch.

Tell me any good reason besides CCP is utterly and completely lazy.



No named drones? Huh? Would you like some help coming out from under that rock?

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:23:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Forge Lag
And the reason there are no named drones and drone mods is? There would be OP too? You have not just plethora of mods but faction ammo too, drone users have zilch.

Tell me any good reason besides CCP is utterly and completely lazy.



No named drones? Huh? Would you like some help coming out from under that rock?


The word you mean is "faction", boy.

FawKa
Gallente
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:28:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Mr Friendly
damage mods were tested and found to be overpowered

rigs would likely end up op as well



That mean that damage mods for guns/missiles are overpowered?

I fail to see how one can be overpowered and the other not.

Modules require the use of a slot, probably a high slot for damage mods, maybe they will use cap, have a range not necessarily equivalent to those at wick the drone can operate, ecc., plenty of way to balance them.

Rigs, again can have several drawbacks, for example less bandwidth, CPU usage, grid usage.

It seem more the "drones were a bad idea, they require too much computation power, we should discourage the use of drones" line of thought than a balance issue.

If you look any change in drones in the last year has been negative and even before there was not a positive change in the last two years while there was at least 1 indirect negative change (no buff of hp or damage when ship hp have been buffed).

"Faction" drones are a joke. Beside the incredible rarity they have practically no advantage against the equivalent standard drone. The advantage in HP and speed is more than compensated by the split damage, for PvE it is only a drawback and I hardly see how it can be an advantage in PvP.


You are right on in @ OP.. I've been saying this since forever.

The drone dmg mods was found to be overpowered because of the Moros (I cant find the damn dev reply but its freaking old anyways). If we follow up on old ideas and make it an active highslot the moros would give its guns for more drone dmg - therefor not overpowered.

I really wish there would be giving something to drone users. A dominix using drones gives 470 dps if its maxed or something right? Feel free to take of some turret hardpoints if we get drone dmg mods!

It's and endless discussion without CCP replies so..

Stork DK
Minmatar
Risky eXplosion
Death or Glory
Posted - 2008.04.24 12:49:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Forge Lag
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Forge Lag
And the reason there are no named drones and drone mods is? There would be OP too? You have not just plethora of mods but faction ammo too, drone users have zilch.

Tell me any good reason besides CCP is utterly and completely lazy.



No named drones? Huh? Would you like some help coming out from under that rock?


The word you mean is "faction", boy.


Faction? as in Domination Beserker or Shadow Serpentist Ogre?
The new Drones are in fact Named.
'Integrated' and 'Augmented' is similar to 'Arbalest.

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2008.04.24 13:07:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Stork DK
Faction? as in Domination Beserker or Shadow Serpentist Ogre?
The new Drones are in fact Named.
'Integrated' and 'Augmented' is similar to 'Arbalest.


And the method of their aquisition is the same as named and totally unlike faction and the game lists them under "faction" category by mistake because there is no drone NPCs at all.

What about you kids go to school and learn to read already. All the arguments you have is your own ignorance. How very fitting for the topic.

Even if you were right and i was wrong, show me what your ignorant bunch would be calling "faction" drones then and while at it show me the faction/named/T2/whatever drone mods. I mean, even the mods that are in the game are far from finished feature.

AnKahn
Caldari
The Blood Wraiths
Posted - 2008.04.24 14:38:00 - [25]
 

So, after the battle you ask the 2 million SP Drake pilot "how many drones did you kill?" Too bad that stuff does not get on the kill mail.

You are primaried by a bunch of drone boats and have maybe 50 drones shooting at you. Guess that's what smart bombs are for. Does that really work well? I actually have not seen that happen and would like to know.

Kusha'an
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.04.24 15:51:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
Because as others have stated above, there's already a skill that doubles all drone damage.
And because, quite frankly, all this drone businness is overpowered, because a large drone bay (especialy if it comes with drone bonuses) can free up all your highslots, which is why CCP nerfed nos in the first place. You're not supposed to do uber damage without weapons imho.


Advanced Weapon Upgrades (RANK 6)

Controlled Bursts (RANK 2)

Gunnery (RANK 1)

Large Blaster Specialization (RANK 8)

Large Hybrid Turret (RANK 5)

Large Railgun Specialization (RANK 8)

Medium Blaster Specialization (RANK 5)

Medium Hybrid Turret (RANK 3)

Medium Railgun Specialization (RANK 5)

Motion Prediction (RANK 2)

Rapid Firing (RANK 2)

Sharpshooter (RANK 2)

Small Blaster Specialization (RANK 3)

Small Hybrid Turret (RANK 1)

Small Railgun Specialization (RANK 3)

Surgical Strike (RANK 4)

Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration (RANK 8)

Trajectory Analysis (RANK 5)

Weapon Upgrades (RANK 2)

VS

Advanced Drone Interfacing (RANK 8

Combat Drone Operation (RANK 2

Drone Interfacing (RANK 5)

Heavy Drone Operation (RANK 5)

Scout Drone Operation (RANK 1)

Sentry Drone Interfacing (RANK 5)

Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Posted - 2008.04.24 15:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: AnKahn
So, after the battle you ask the 2 million SP Drake pilot "how many drones did you kill?" Too bad that stuff does not get on the kill mail.

You are primaried by a bunch of drone boats and have maybe 50 drones shooting at you. Guess that's what smart bombs are for. Does that really work well? I actually have not seen that happen and would like to know.


If you do it right it can work really well. A corpmate of mine was flying a domi and had several large smart bombs in his highs. He ended up getting caught in a belt by a mixed recon, hac, stealth bomber gang and was able to kill a number of drones by letting off his, I think 3, large smart bombs. It gave his attackers a good surprise, but at the same time he didn't survive.

To the people talking about the ability of drones to be killed, yes that is definitely an issue with drone boats but I do not think it under powers them. This I see because if you are in a dedicated drone boat the odds are that you will have extra drones. All you need do is cycle them. Is this harder now that their shields don't auto recharge, yes, but if you are in a dedicated drone boat you have enough drone bay that you don't have to send the same damaged drone back out.

For smart bombs, I have rarely seen many ships carry them. If they did, most drone ships carry cap warfare mods. If you see your opponent firing off the smarties, pull your drones in, cap the guy out (since smarties aren't the most cap friendly weapons) and when you are satisfied that he is caped down, send your drones back out.

AnKahn
Caldari
The Blood Wraiths
Posted - 2008.04.24 16:16:00 - [28]
 

The poster above points out the disparity between guns skills and drone skills. I think there is balance because you are never going to get 1300 DPS out of sub Capital drones. Maybe Drones plus guns on certain ships.

I have 5 mil SP in missiles I'm not using at the moment because I'm trying to learn drones, crosstraing from Caldari to Gallente, which is a sensible move I feel. Even tho there's the Rokh and training hybrids is on my list of things to do, FOR SURE guns are skill intensive. WE GET IT.

The strength of drones, per my limited knowlege of all things EvE, is the fact that you can radically adapt your tactics and capabilities in the middle of a battle. Nanos bugging you, pull out your fast drones. Someone sniping you, pull out your sentries and snipe back. Nose to nose, Ogre them and nuet them.

Everyone else has to fly back to the station and refit or bring a different ship.Very Happy

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.04.24 16:17:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
Why dont we have damage mods for drones?
Why dont we have damage rigs for drones? (besides the sentry ones, but what is with other drones?)
Why dont we have any implants which improve our drones?
Why cant we overheat our drones?

Well max training and the most dps a drones do is like 475 or something. Which is fine. What we need is a non-tech 2 set of drones without the need of higher skills like heavy drones 5. But appropriately higher cost of the drones.

Essentially the difference between 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun vs 425mm railgun T2

There's no difference at all. You get the EXACT same stats. The difference however is that they are much more expensive without the skills needed.

That's what drones need. We dont need ****ty augmented or whatever drones that nobody at all uses.

Miss Xerox
Posted - 2008.04.24 16:20:00 - [30]
 

Drones, bah!

What about other things we actually have an implant set for? Halo & Talisman sets affect things that only ship bonuses affect, namely Sig Radius (Halo), and Energy Transfer (Talisman).

These sets get the lowest bonuses, and there are no modules/rigs/squat that affects their focus. Now, look at speed/armor/shield cycle sets and marvel. They get insane bonuses by set, and there are countless modules/rigs/bonuses to those attributes already.

Seems logical that they look at drone-affecting modules, but also look at the pittiable boni on sig & energy transfer sets since there are no items in game that alter them beyond ship bonuses.


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