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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:33:00 - [1]
 

1. Warp to gate.
2. Jump through.
3. If pirates on gate, ctrl-q.
4. Log in/out a few times to make yourself a safespot.
5. Log back in, warp to next gate, repeat.

Unless they can't kill you in 30 seconds, your golden!

Rolling Eyes

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:35:00 - [2]
 

fofo

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:37:00 - [3]
 

And you're making this publicly available to more people who will use this tactic why? ugh

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:50:00 - [4]
 

I travelled from Curse to Jita carrying 4bil cargo using this exact method pretty much, only I used an alt to scout the gate before logging back in.

The only danger is if they're able to put enough pain on you to kill you before you disappear, but that's unlikely.

Needs a nerf IMO.

Lady Natacha
Minmatar
Water and Power
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:51:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Guide: How-to fly a freighter any ship through lowsec without an escort


Fixed that for ya'. Wink

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.04.19 06:57:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kruel
1. Warp to gate.
2. Jump through.
3. If pirates on gate, ctrl-q.
4. Log in/out a few times to make yourself a safespot.
5. Log back in, warp to next gate, repeat.

Unless they can't kill you in 30 seconds, your golden!

Rolling Eyes


But what if they warp scramble you? If your scrambled I think you don't warp out of the grid - or am I wrong? Thats what I always knew and kept in mind.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.04.19 07:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Amastat
Originally by: Kruel
1. Warp to gate.
2. Jump through.
3. If pirates on gate, ctrl-q.
4. Log in/out a few times to make yourself a safespot.
5. Log back in, warp to next gate, repeat.

Unless they can't kill you in 30 seconds, your golden!

Rolling Eyes


But what if they warp scramble you? If your scrambled I think you don't warp out of the grid - or am I wrong? Thats what I always knew and kept in mind.


If you log off while still cloaked after jumping through a gate, you will simply dissapear from space about 40 seconds or so. This is why its pretty much an exploit, but one ccp cannot fix.

Terminus adacai
Caldari
Racey Bee
Posted - 2008.04.19 07:29:00 - [8]
 

Thanks..... This is new?

Franga
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2008.04.19 07:37:00 - [9]
 

No.

Inflexible
Shokei
Posted - 2008.04.19 07:38:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
If you log off while still cloaked after jumping through a gate, you will simply dissapear from space about 40 seconds or so. This is why its pretty much an exploit, but one ccp cannot fix.

Of course they can. Reset logoff timer if ship takes damage, prevent ship disappearing when warp scrambled... For some dubious reason they don't want to do it.

Timaios
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:01:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Inflexible
Originally by: Gamesguy
If you log off while still cloaked after jumping through a gate, you will simply dissapear from space about 40 seconds or so. This is why its pretty much an exploit, but one ccp cannot fix.

Of course they can. Reset logoff timer if ship takes damage, prevent ship disappearing when warp scrambled... For some dubious reason they don't want to do it.


I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.

Also, I could imagine that if the aggro timer could be reset after the ship had logged off, the new way of killing supercaps would be to find their safespot, wait until they have logged off, cause aggro and then jump in dreads or w/e to finish the job - the supercap will never vanish from space and is unable to defend.

I hope you see that both of these possibilities might cause some problems. Razz

Nobody wants EVE to be PvSOTCFBBDJC (Player versus stationary objects that cannot fight back but drop juicy loot).

Kano Sekor
Amarr
Burning Steel Inc.
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:14:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Kano Sekor on 19/04/2008 09:14:18
Originally by: Timaios

I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.



If you get random disconnects you shouldnt do lvl 4 missions.

Mia Mandalore
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kano Sekor
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 19/04/2008 09:14:18
Originally by: Timaios

I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.



If you get random disconnects you shouldnt do lvl 4 missions.


Care to explain why?

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kano Sekor
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 19/04/2008 09:14:18
Originally by: Timaios

I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.



If you get random disconnects you shouldnt do lvl 4 missions.


If you can’t see consequences outside of your narrow field of vision, you shouldn’t have opinions.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Kano Sekor
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 19/04/2008 09:14:18
Originally by: Timaios

I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.



If you get random disconnects you shouldnt do lvl 4 missions.


If you can’t see consequences outside of your narrow field of vision, you shouldn’t have opinions.


Actually, you're wrong. Why should the game allow for or be balanced with people DCing in mind? If you lose connection, tough luck. This whole game is based on the "if you have bad luck you're fekked" idea, why should mission runners (who already are doing a no-risk thing) be exempted from that?

Miki Fin
Gallente
New Eden Population Control
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:42:00 - [16]
 

How To Kill A Freighter In Low Sec

1. Use your brain.
2. Bring friends.
3. ??????
4. Profit.

Inflexible
Shokei
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:42:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Inflexible on 19/04/2008 09:49:47
Originally by: Timaios
I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.

Make it "prevent ship disappearing when warp scrambled by player".
PvE was not my concern tbh - I only wanted to point out there are solutions for the problem.

Originally by: Miki Fin
How To Kill A Freighter In Low Sec

1. Use your brain.
2. Bring friends.
3. ??????
4. Profit.

Point 3 is "repeat 1 and 2 until you have stupidly enough brains and friends to kill freighter before diasppearing" Rolling Eyes

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2008.04.19 09:54:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/04/2008 09:54:25
someone who logs while jumping in a system cloaked should have their ship start warp instantly, therefore uncloaking them for the full 2 minute timer rather than part of the timer being wasted on cloaking time currently

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:02:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Pohbis on 19/04/2008 10:04:27
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Actually, you're wrong. Why should the game allow for or be balanced with people DCing in mind? If you lose connection, tough luck. This whole game is based on the "if you have bad luck you're fekked" idea, why should mission runners (who already are doing a no-risk thing) be exempted from that?

Why should it even be balanced for people? Why should you be allowed to log out just cause you got to, say, work?

This whole game is based on the "if you have a real life you're fekked" idea. It's a game, why should it be even remotely enjoyable if you can't play 23/7?

Answer: It's a game! Rolling Eyes

Buhooo, I can't gank freighters in low-sec. Waaahhh..... People seem to do it fine in high-sec. If you can't do it in low-sec, you're doing it wrong.

Timaios
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:11:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Inflexible
Edited by: Inflexible on 19/04/2008 09:49:47
Originally by: Timaios
I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.

Make it "prevent ship disappearing when warp scrambled by player".
PvE was not my concern tbh - I only wanted to point out there are solutions for the problem.



I don't really care about consequences to PVE either, I was just making a point that must be taken into account when revising any game mechanic, especially as fundamental as this.

But the mechanic would still be the way to kill supercaps, which is something that just won't do, even in it's revised form (aggro timer reset after player-generated warp scrambling).

The jump-logoff -mechanic is annoying, yes (esp. in lowsec where you can't setup bubbles to cause an aggrotimer reset). I know, been on the receiving end and missing kills due to that. But if weighted against the alternative where someone can just keep me in space and kill my ship without me even knowing about it, I'm kind of siding with keeping the mechanics as they are. If I log off without an aggro timer, I want to be sure that I'm really logging off, not leaving myself open for a poke from a civilian gatling gun from a covops and then blown up. This is EVE online after all.

For what it's worth, I think CCP have went quite far to discourage logoff-tactics: in 0.0 you can stop that with bubbles. Granted, lowsec is an another issue, but at least they acknowledge the issue.

Firkragg
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:13:00 - [21]
 

Just make agro follow from system to system. so if you shoot them with somone on the other side and they jump to escape and log then they are still agressed.

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:16:00 - [22]
 

Balance it by eliminating 15 minute GCC timer after jumping through a gate Very Happy.

Ooooo....people would hate that one.


Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:19:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Timaios


Also, I could imagine that if the aggro timer could be reset after the ship had logged off, the new way of killing supercaps would be to find their safespot, wait until they have logged off, cause aggro and then jump in dreads or w/e to finish the job - the supercap will never vanish from space and is unable to defend.





The mechanics aren't exactly the same, but its how at least one of the first two titans destroyed was killed. A paid spy smart bombed it, or some such, giving it an agrro timer so that there was time to scan and scram and kill it. Been a while since it happened, so I may not be 100% exact in details, but it was some such similair method if not exact.


Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Kano Sekor
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 19/04/2008 09:14:18
Originally by: Timaios

I can understand that it would cause issues with people who suffer from random disconnects. CTDing in a lvl4 mission with even a single scrambling frig would be 100% certain annihilation or at least the ship would stay in space and pounded by targets until the next downtime.



If you get random disconnects you shouldnt do lvl 4 missions.


If you can’t see consequences outside of your narrow field of vision, you shouldn’t have opinions.


Actually, you're wrong. Why should the game allow for or be balanced with people DCing in mind? If you lose connection, tough luck. This whole game is based on the "if you have bad luck you're fekked" idea, why should mission runners (who already are doing a no-risk thing) be exempted from that?


Because your argument can be boiled down to “real life actions or events (logging off) shouldn’t effect in game matters” but the logic works both ways, ie: “having a less than perfect internet connection shouldn’t penalise you too harshly.”

Do you want RL to let people occasionally escape, or do you want people to suffer harshly due to a situation out of their control?

I won’t make any assumptions about what country you live in (really hate it when people do that) but chances are there are those from other countries with far far less stable internet infrastructure than you or i have, and even in the most developed countries, some ISP’s just suck, is it really fair to punish people who are doing nothing wrong, just to punish the few that do?

I’m arguing this, because at the beginning of the year my old ISP went completely FUBAR, and I couldent stay connected to Eve for more than 10 minutes at the best of times, and often suffered major lag that was not due to CCPs servers, this forced me to take a month long break from Eve as any PVP with that kind of instability was a death sentence, and thats with only the current game mechanics.

Now my new ISP Rocks, so such a change wouldn’t effect me in the slightest, since i don’t logoffski and have only ever dropped connection due to node crashes since switching service providers, but knowing first-hand how much a bad connection absolutely kills your ability to play Eve already, I don’t think its worth it.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:34:00 - [25]
 

How to possibly kill a logging freighter:

1. Sit on gate cloaked waiting for freighter to appear
2. Aggress freighter with smartbomb.
3. Warp in gank squad or drop probes.
4. Hope that you aggressed him before he logged!

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:51:00 - [26]
 

How to fly a freighter through lowsec without escort: DON'T.

Timaios
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2008.04.19 10:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Radcjk
Originally by: Timaios


Also, I could imagine that if the aggro timer could be reset after the ship had logged off, the new way of killing supercaps would be to find their safespot, wait until they have logged off, cause aggro and then jump in dreads or w/e to finish the job - the supercap will never vanish from space and is unable to defend.





The mechanics aren't exactly the same, but its how at least one of the first two titans destroyed was killed. A paid spy smart bombed it, or some such, giving it an agrro timer so that there was time to scan and scram and kill it. Been a while since it happened, so I may not be 100% exact in details, but it was some such similair method if not exact.




Yes, but the difference is that the spy used the smartbomb while the titan pilot was logged in - he simply didn't notice it but he could have. Perhaps he had damage notifications disabled or was just not paying attention.

The possibility to aggress logged off ships is in completely different ballpark and much more dangerous, as there is no way to know that someone is doing that to you.

I'm hoping someone would have an idea on how to prevent logoffs (keeping such ships in place) while allowing, for example, missioning ships to warp to safety while disconnecting (here's where player-generated effects come into play) and still making sure that "legitimate" logging in space would not be penalized. I don't have a solution (yet), sorry. Sad

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.04.19 11:22:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lady Natacha
Quote:
Guide: How-to fly a freighter any ship through lowsec without an escort


Fixed that for ya'. Wink


Most ships will be dead in the time it takes to dissapear.

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2008.04.19 11:24:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
How to possibly kill a logging freighter:

1. Sit on gate cloaked waiting for freighter to appear
2. Aggress freighter with smartbomb.
3. Warp in gank squad or drop probes.
4. Hope that you aggressed him before he logged!


Doesnt work.

When he logs in and out quickly, his ship is in EWarp - and then ewarps again when it lands. thus creating safes. He is already out of the game when he lands, so your smart bomb wont give him a timer. And your pober has only got less then 30 secs from when he lands until he vanishes to find him > and IF your prober getes their in his little covops he cant do enough damage to kill it, your BS's even alinged and on him fast only have literaly a few seconds left before POOF hes gone outa game, vanished.

and then he repeats, until he gets into a nice safe with time to warp to the next gate and Whoosh, jumps outa system

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2008.04.19 11:27:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Sorted on 19/04/2008 11:27:45
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Lady Natacha
Quote:
Guide: How-to fly a freighter any ship through lowsec without an escort


Fixed that for ya'. Wink


Most ships will be dead in the time it takes to dissapear.


Depends on the camp size. 10BS's+ tacklers and scouts, the loot doesnt split down very well. More ships is more chance to kill, but using a blob to counter this is the only solution as I see it. and its not ideal.

I pefer to camp with the min number of ships tbh. but sod it. . lets blob the hell outa of it.. if your blob cant melt a frieghter in under 10 secs then its not big enough! sweetRolling Eyes


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