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Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:14:00 - [1]
 

Let me first preface this by stating that these are my opinions, not that of my corporation or alliance.

I think all of us knew that sooner or later a large group of players were going to band together to take on BoB.

I'll be the first to state that they're really good at what they do. BoB has some of the most dedicated players out there, bar none.

When everybody started getting in line to take a swing at BoB, I have to say that I was looking forward to what it meant for Eve. Everything had gotten rather stale, with the uber-group of players running the majority of 0.0 by proxy.

Don't get me wrong, the whole "Lords and Vassals" thing was a stroke of genius on their part. They got paid by the renters, and really didn't have to do anything.

When the assault started in earnest, I think that the greater majority of Eve players were rooting for the goontrain to go straight to Delve.

When BoB was losing all their space, they were pretty busy spinning the losses, which I'm sure you can all remember.

Abandoning allies and renters alike, BoB backpedaled all the way to Delve, where they claimed that they did it all for better fights.

So the goontrain switched the tracks to Delve.

And Delve is where they went.

And Delve is where everything lurched to a halt.

Regardless of what the goons do now, there are huge advantages to defending space from NPC stations.

No soverignity to lock you out of stations, jumpclone back and forth to assemble fleets, the list goes on and on.

Sure, your enemies can do the same thing, but it comes down to whose logistical lines are shorter, and I believe BoB has the upper hand in this aspect.

Several of the best Goon allies have gone on to do something different, because dislodging an alliance like BoB out of NPC space is a pretty messy deal, believe me.

I would have really liked to see RA or AAA go head to head with BoB in Delve, but they're off dorking around somewhere. (I've heard RA was in the drone regions, but I don't have any friends there anymore, so who knows...)

That being said, I think we all knew that the whole "Fortress Delve" thing was going to be a big "Run-up to nothing" as it were.

When ASCN was around, they had more resources sitting in Feythabolis than you can imagine. 10 Billion trit sitting in random stations, a stack of 19 million morphite in RIT.

That being said, BoB has had a lot longer to stockpile resources in Delve, and they are logistically a lot better than any alliance I can think of.

So what is the end result? Simple. At some point, the Goon attack is going to peter out (if it already hasn't) and BoB will go back to doing what they do, which is kick people out of their space.

And we end up right back where we started.

What can you do? Pick a side, and fight it out now while you can.

What's the alternative? Going back to another 2-3 years of the same crap.









Jake Noble
Amarr
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:16:00 - [2]
 

tldr please cos this is long and boring

Gareish
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:18:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Gareish on 18/04/2008 00:19:12
Originally by: Jake Noble
tldr please cos this is long and boring


Part 1. Molle lied, BoB died.
Part 2. Molle lied, Goons died.

Yeah us EBIL SPACE OVERLORDS are going redominate EVE and give the small mining man crap. So terrible posts.

Astasia Orian
Minmatar
Black Eclipse Corp
KenZoku
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:20:00 - [4]
 

I thought you were like the spokesguy for blackoutpire or whatever it was called.

Anyway, to address the OP, yes BoB is completely awesome. <3 us.

Erotic Irony
Caldari
0bsession
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:21:00 - [5]
 

caod is driven by ascn tears, fact

Dark Matter
Caldari
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Dark Matter on 18/04/2008 00:29:49
Gungan you're like a girl in a bar room brawl that stands on the table screaming and throwing bottles at the guys fighting, get your hands dirty and put your money where your mouth is. You know where we are.

Edited after looking you up on the bob killboard, last participation was Sunday 24th December 2006.

Hrin
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:29:00 - [7]
 

Whats going on here?

Jehovah Cooper
Caldari
H A V O C
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:30:00 - [8]
 

Wait is the problem NPC stations or cynojammers!?!? Someone please give the authoritative answer for why BoB is not dead, despite me F5ing these threads all day long.

Hey You
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:49:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jehovah Cooper
Wait is the problem NPC stations or cynojammers!?!? Someone please give the authoritative answer for why BoB is not dead, despite me F5ing these threads all day long.


Because we are better then them? Cant people just accept that fact?

This cry for help is pathetic to say the least. So much bitterness left from ASCN days.

80 % of 0.0 had a go and failed. We are better then you. You went home making excuses to public and your members like RzR did and what we do? Same old thing we alwayes do. We kick ass and have fun.

And dude coalition is, unfortunately, dead. Hell even Goons reseted standings let alone others. I wish it isn't becouse i cant find targets close to me anymore, and i have to do 50 jumps to get a fight again, but its dead. End of storie. We won.

Nero Winger
Amarr
Galactic Trading
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:54:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jehovah Cooper
Wait is the problem NPC stations or cynojammers!?!? Someone please give the authoritative answer for why BoB is not dead, despite me F5ing these threads all day long.


i think its the moon layout in delve that is giving us this greaaaattt advantage. oh no, that was in 2006.
maybe pos shields should be changed so tech1 frigs can hit them more efficient? Laughing

i personaly think the problem is that the coalition tactic of "make bob leave delve by using CAOD and not risking anything ingame" didn't really work, gungan is one of the veterans of this strategy.

Seatoo
Caldari
Akemi Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:56:00 - [11]
 

I went to delve for an hour and made 12 billion isk etc etc dev hacks and t2bpos were floating everywhere

i came. twice.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:57:00 - [12]
 

Look at all those Cryalition's tears, mwhahahahaah

enjoi
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:59:00 - [13]
 

You forgot that it's obvious that the chasm-like skill points difference between us and the rest of eve gives us a ridiculous advantage too.

PhantomLord
Minmatar
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:11:00 - [14]
 

Can i be on your side ?

Noshi
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:16:00 - [15]
 

I still love you gungan, your sigs are pwn. <3

You should never have mentioned the alliance that shall not be named.

Bad luck and curses to all coad posts.

Bumkin
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:19:00 - [16]
 

dislodging bob from npc stations??? that doesnt make sense, cause they have 25 outpost they own in delve.

DigitalCommunist
Gallente
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:20:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/04/2008 01:24:57
You get props for trying to see the big picture, but your analysis always falls short of full points.

A long term war of attrition isn't determined by game mechanics in the least, its just something people use as an excuse when they're frustrated. Even when game mechanics are not flawless, everyone is forced to play by the same rules. At the very least they're fair.

Plus, the mechanics we have today are much better than the ones we had when the war broke out. That didn't stop the fight then, so why should it stop now? (hint: because people want it to end)

This war ground to a halt because BoB, whilst outnumbered by simple comparison, has been fighting for one single reason since inception. One agenda vs dozens of often conflicting agendas. One alliance vs dozens of often conflicting alliances. Its pretty elementary crap, sir.

When all is said and done, most of the Coalition participants were satisfied enough by some combination of recognition, purpose, riches, security or territory. Half of them wouldn't exist today without this easy option.

Satisfying egos has always played a large part, but a year has gone by and the enemy has improved. The amount of people willing to do 90% of the effort for 10% of the gains simply to satisfy their ego is measured in the dozens.

Attacking an alliance like BoB isn't going to get the same show of hands now, and most of the people in Delve now are doing it for the sake of PVP, boredom and moral high ground. Alliances get invaded when they present the attacker with opportunities, either by being weak or direct provocation. That's the next phase of the war, where those few dozen people try and convince the rest using whatever BoB does next as leverage.

They've already started building expectations; that if BoB tries to regain its former size, they'll be beaten back in the same way. I'd keep going but I have a bluberry fritter in front of me, and its actin' all ****ty and whatnot.

DigitalCommunist
Gallente
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:26:00 - [18]
 

Damn that was a good fritter.

Ja La
Amarr
Red Ballz
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:39:00 - [19]
 



Gungankllr,

Some thing else happened also.

As BoB fell back to Delve and one by one its allies were removed from their space , BoB recruited from the now defunct / removed Alliances. So as time went on BoB and friends became mostly BoB , being in one Alliance make campaign logistics and goals easier.

Goons & their extended NAP at times joined fleets but for the most part they had their own agendas and once their goals were meet they went back to doing their own thing. For example AAA only limited NAP and participation when its route to High Sec was threatened. Once each Alliance no longer felt threatened they mostly dropped out of the fight and the majority of those in the NAP never saw combat in the south.

In the end , BoB will regain at least 2 Regions possibly more and IAC will continue to lose SOV in Catch.






Hrin
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:46:00 - [20]
 

This thread was pretty bad until BoB came in and told us how awesome they are for getting rid of those regions they didn't want.

Thats when it got good

Orar Ironfist
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:48:00 - [21]
 

Look ma another thread about goons and bobs.

AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:50:00 - [22]
 

Pretty sure I'm over over-simplifying it.

The side that runs out of resources and willpower to deploy an effective capital fleet at a time and place of their choise first will be your loser in the great conflict.

Let's face it. Takeing, and holding, station systems while your foe has an effective capital fleet holds exactly zero value. Only need to look at RA two years ago for a shineing example of this.

fugazii
Minmatar
TunDraGon
Posted - 2008.04.18 02:37:00 - [23]
 

I'm loving the new excuse to failure being thrown around the past week. Delve is now npc space, and everyone knows npc space can't be takenRolling Eyes. Bob apparently are the only one's who can use jump clones in those systems, and ofc we can't forget that the only reason BoB isn't locked out of Delve has nothing to do with them not losing stations but because theres npc stations preventing them from losing sovereignty in other systems.

The fact is Delve is a relatively easy region to take.
1)It's on the border of empire, with multiple entrance routes in.
2)There's npc stations for your enemy to base out of, making their supplies invulnerable and impossible to kick them out.
3)The current political map has the region surrounded on all sides by enemies, bad for BoB but for the coalition allows easy 100% friendly supply routes directly to npc stations.
4)The stations have been there for longer than 1 year, meaning there has been over a years time to stockpile supplies in a invulnerable station.(yes this works both ways)

Until you dislodge them from their stations you cannot complain that its hard taking them out of npc space. Because your not kicking them out of npc space at this point in the war, your kicking them out of the 15+ stations they still own in Delve. Your talking as if the defence for NOL and other Delve stations was won by sitting in the 1 Blood Raider constellation in Delve, it wasn't it was won by being in non-npc space.

Onionico
Gallente
Slacker Industries
Posted - 2008.04.18 04:44:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Hrin
This thread was pretty bad until BoB came in and told us how awesome they are for getting rid of those regions they didn't want.

Thats when it got good


Superslam.jpg

Onionico
Gallente
Slacker Industries
Posted - 2008.04.18 04:46:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Look at all those Cryalition's tears, mwhahahahaah


This post is the best post.

Skoot
Gallente
Local Threat
Posted - 2008.04.18 04:58:00 - [26]
 

Im really surprised... or wait no im not.. wait Im not sure... Is this a pro goon or pro bob thread?

the Poet
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.04.18 05:07:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Skoot
Im really surprised... or wait no im not.. wait Im not sure... Is this a pro goon or pro bob thread?


This is a bob killed ASCN thread, in other news Goons and MC are allies... again LaughingLaughing


Defying
Minmatar
MASS
Posted - 2008.04.18 05:50:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/04/2008 01:24:57
You get props for trying to see the big picture, but your analysis always falls short of full points.

A long term war of attrition isn't determined by game mechanics in the least, its just something people use as an excuse when they're frustrated. Even when game mechanics are not flawless, everyone is forced to play by the same rules. At the very least they're fair.

Plus, the mechanics we have today are much better than the ones we had when the war broke out. That didn't stop the fight then, so why should it stop now? (hint: because people want it to end)

This war ground to a halt because BoB, whilst outnumbered by simple comparison, has been fighting for one single reason since inception. One agenda vs dozens of often conflicting agendas. One alliance vs dozens of often conflicting alliances. Its pretty elementary crap, sir.

When all is said and done, most of the Coalition participants were satisfied enough by some combination of recognition, purpose, riches, security or territory. Half of them wouldn't exist today without this easy option.

Satisfying egos has always played a large part, but a year has gone by and the enemy has improved. The amount of people willing to do 90% of the effort for 10% of the gains simply to satisfy their ego is measured in the dozens.

Attacking an alliance like BoB isn't going to get the same show of hands now, and most of the people in Delve now are doing it for the sake of PVP, boredom and moral high ground. Alliances get invaded when they present the attacker with opportunities, either by being weak or direct provocation. That's the next phase of the war, where those few dozen people try and convince the rest using whatever BoB does next as leverage.

They've already started building expectations; that if BoB tries to regain its former size, they'll be beaten back in the same way. I'd keep going but I have a bluberry fritter in front of me, and its actin' all ****ty and whatnot.



good post,

covers everything and i think nails whats going on with the coaltion
If bob try grow and expand back out in the same fashion as before everyone will band together

but right now only goons and PL have resolve to try finish the job, i just dont think its enough.
imo once the slugfest is done and the stalemate is recognised, bob will have delve to wreak havoc amongst the former coalition while goon sit back and say you should of finished them when we had the chance


Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2008.04.18 06:26:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/04/2008 06:26:54
Originally by: Gungankllr
When ASCN was around, they had more resources sitting in Feythabolis than you can imagine. 10 Billion trit sitting in random stations, a stack of 19 million morphite in RIT.



A lot of issues were not because of the stockpile ASCN had, rather its unwillingless to use it. For example, simple stuff like a cov ops pilot trying to get a cov ops cloak was so difficult and expensive, that it was common for people to travel to Jita to buy one and bring one back as it was cheaper and often quicker this way. Often ASCN fleets were left blind or partially crippled in this manner due to PvPers having the perception of being ripped off. Other simple stuff like getting a rack of t2 guns or a hac was basically extreamly fustrating since a lot of the focus was in greed rather than alliance need. The only things that were cheaper in ASCN space was rat loot, since there was so much of it for sale, people had to drop below empire price to sell it off!

Basically, the only mirror in my opinion between the coalition and ascn is that ASCn never worked as a alliance, rather it works like a collection of corps with a blue list with most trying to get peaceful mining/ratting time. Coalition was pretty much the same, they ended up working less like a coalition and as a collection of groups with a blue list with most trying to get peaceful mining/ratting time.

Amanda Blue
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 06:27:00 - [30]
 

LOL in a GBC cirlce jerk thread \0/


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