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CCP Saint


C C P
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:03:00 - [1]
 

Have we completely lost our mind? Removing NPC sell orders on shuttles? How on earth are you supposed to travel around EVE without shuttles if you donít like the color of your ship? Wonít shuttles end up costing a fortune? A fear not dear plebeian, our very own economist, Dr. EyjoG, is here to explain just why we did this and how you can still roam the galaxy even if you canít always find a shuttle. As an added bonus the good doctor will also explain the importance of Veldspar (stop drooling, Chribba) and how manufacturing and selling shuttles can be the next big thing in the world of EVE. Head over and read all about it in Shuttles no longer sold by NPCs.

ThisAlt IsUseless
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:16:00 - [2]
 

nice

Gold Rogers
von Dutch Enterprises
G String University
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:20:00 - [3]
 

Sounds interesting

Louis DelaBlanche
An Outlying Variable
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:35:00 - [4]
 

I sense a Chribba related conspiracy at the real heart of this change

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:44:00 - [5]
 

Good to see that the good Doctor is still alive!

Good blog, right to the bone and all that.

Moar blogs with my favorite dev please! Wink

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.04.17 15:48:00 - [6]
 

Perhaps now we can get invention runs on shuttle BPOs to make T2 shuttles?

Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:27:00 - [7]
 

Awesome Smile

LancerSix
Regeneration
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:29:00 - [8]
 

This is actually one of the smarter changes made to EVE in recent memory. I've had a lot of RL friends that wanted to join EVE, but quickly lost their way and quit due to the inability to make any real money out of the gates. Some of them I ended up just giving handouts and paying for their gear (I, at the time, was Torp Raven ratting in Fountain Cool), but that sort of defeats the whole purpose of playing the game in the first place.

This is a damn smart change, it will probably cause a bit of inflation (production costs go up, profit margins on T1 gear already effectively nill, prices go up), but in the long run it makes it far friendlier to newbies who don't know 0.0 PVP Alliance members.

Vek NaVek
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:37:00 - [9]
 

Fight for the economy .. really?

CCP Chronotis said 4 months ago:
Quote:
We do agree that the demand for components will only increase due to invention removing the limiting factor of a fixed original blueprint supply and new tech II ships being introduced. This has warranted a fresh look at the moon mining and construction component processes which has been ongoing for a while since we first confirmed we were introducing so many new ships and also making some big changes to invention which have lead to a very in-depth look at the industry from top to bottom.

Linkage


What about putting that Doctor brain of your into a higher gear, and comment on some of the more complex issues of the market, rather than the babystep attempt of removing a trit price cap.

Notice I didn't say do something, just comment on it

Potes
Amarr
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:38:00 - [10]
 

Dr. EyjoG... i really love this guy! good move on behalf of ccp 4 getting him involved!
Onwards with EyjoG!

potes

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:57:00 - [11]
 

My shuttle BPOs and I support this change 100%. Twisted Evil

Princess Morenta
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.04.17 16:57:00 - [12]
 

Quite a stupid change...

Who will buy a shuttle now when you can get a free rookie ship and fit some mods to improve your survivability?

Shouldve just removed refine amounts from shuttles but as usual ccp sledgehammers the solution.

Hebik Fane
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.04.17 17:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Princess Morenta
Quite a stupid change...

Who will buy a shuttle now when you can get a free rookie ship and fit some mods to improve your survivability?

Shouldve just removed refine amounts from shuttles but as usual ccp sledgehammers the solution.


Shuttles have significant speed and sig radius advantages over rookie ships.

Paddlefoot Aeon
SiN. Corp
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2008.04.17 17:57:00 - [14]
 

While I think that a ready/unlimited supply of tritanium (as supplied by the shuttles) gave us was bad, I still stand by what I wrote in my thread on how this breaks the risk/reward model for EVE.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:19:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Princess Morenta
Quite a stupid change...

Who will buy a shuttle now when you can get a free rookie ship and fit some mods to improve your survivability?

Shouldve just removed refine amounts from shuttles but as usual ccp sledgehammers the solution.


by your logic why would you get a shuttle before change? rookie ships have always been free.

SPIONKOP
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:22:00 - [16]
 

You could have put the price up rather than simply remove them.

I make stuff and simply can't be arsed making shuttles that take up valuble factory slots and market slots.

To much like hard work for very little reward.

Romanee Conti
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:40:00 - [17]
 

Removing the ability to reprocess Shuttle would have led to the same effects, without removing the convinience of finding a shuttle everywhere.

Smart move ? Mindless move I'd say !

Aslann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:41:00 - [18]
 

Another great example of devs having no ****ing clue how the game works, great that there is warp to zero and free rookie ships, but if you want to autopilot a lot of jumps a shuttle is vastly superior to the rookie ship, as their speed is way higher.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:43:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
But again, the beautiful workings of the invisible hand will help us (thank you Adam Smith) due to the greed we have for ISK. With higher tritanium prices, mining of veldspar will become very profitable, and since it is readily available in safe areas, needing only low cost equipment to mine, we should see the veldspar flowing very soon and tritanium prices stabilize, but at what level? At this point your guess is just as good as mine.



The macro miners who mine a signifiant part of the high-sec ores mined each day are sooo going to love that...

While I agree the price cap had to go, there are some things that are more a bit more pressing. For example, the 100+ billions that a handfull of alliances make each month with the moons of a single region. Or why, more than 6 months after the low supply of dysprosium bacame apparent, you still haven't done anything about it.

Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.04.17 18:49:00 - [20]
 

The blog didn't say anything about number of titans or motherships were produced did it? :D

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.04.17 19:34:00 - [21]
 

A good change overall. Let us hope that the fight against RMT progresses well enough to avoid macro-miners profiting from theoretically increasing tritanium prices.

Silver Night
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.04.17 19:49:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Aslann
Another great example of devs having no ****ing clue how the game works, great that there is warp to zero and free rookie ships, but if you want to autopilot a lot of jumps a shuttle is vastly superior to the rookie ship, as their speed is way higher.


And pretty much anywhere you should be auto-piloting (read: Not 0.0 or low sec) you should be able to find a cheap tech 1 frigate and a couple ODs and go even faster than a shuttle.

Only reason to AP is if you are afk. And if you are afk anyway, why do you care that it takes a little longer?

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2008.04.17 19:51:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Hebik Fane
Shuttles have significant speed and sig radius advantages over rookie ships.

Except it appears that shuttles do not, in fact, tank very well. As a result, the alt spy who loses a shuttle will now have a much more difficult time replacing it. This might even lead to a downward trend in the use of alt spies in shuttles.

Myrdyr
Posted - 2008.04.17 20:17:00 - [24]
 

Call me lazy, but what's the price cap lifted to, and by what module?

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.04.17 20:21:00 - [25]
 

This seems pointless to me; it will just mean that the new price support moves up a bit, to the next best NPC-produced refinable, and has the cost of making shuttles unavailable in any low-populated area.

Instead of this, the refine value of shuttles -- and all other NPC-built refinables -- should have been dropped, as was done with bombs (ie, the ones allegedly used on stealth bombers).

Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
Posted - 2008.04.17 21:24:00 - [26]
 

Dr. EyjoG, can you please explain, why you didnīt change the mineral composition of shuttles? Each other ship consists of at least 4-5 minerals, only the shuttle is completly made out of trit. If this would be changed, you could still sell shuttles by NPCs without any problems with the trit-price.

Btw: The building time of a shuttle is too long to make profit out of it (with selling at reasonable prices)

Nekopyat
Posted - 2008.04.17 22:41:00 - [27]
 

The part I haven't heard a good explanation for yet is what prevents the market from simply finding another cap based off some other fixed price NPC module?

Seems like a better (and more consistent) solution would have simply been to remove NPC sell orders for refinable items completly rather then one particular item that does wonders for convience.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2008.04.17 22:50:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 17/04/2008 22:51:34
I, for one, welcome our new player-driven-economy overlords!

edit: FWIW, I prefer scooting around with my Slasher, even for one-way trips. Every now and then I get the Hoarder out and pick up the two or three frigates I've got lying around the place (along with the ammo, books and modules).


Poco Curante
Blueprint Haus
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.04.17 22:56:00 - [29]
 

Good. Excellent. Thank you!

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:53:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 18/04/2008 00:58:19
Quote:

The benefit from removing this price cap is that the price of tritanium will be more in line with the underlying demand for tritanium at any given time. This makes the mining industry more profitable in the long run and will balance the benefits between mining and other professions in EVE.


The problem is that this is just plain not true. The cap on trit was holding up the other minerals this increased their profitability.

Mining Bistot is likely still going to be more profitable than mining veldspar. Because of this the cap was a net benefit to miners who could mine bistot, sell bistot at a rate above the mining rate of tritanium, then buy and refine shuttles netting more tritanium with less effort.

Ergo mining nerf.

If the prices on other things don't move and only trit increases then its simply a general nerf to the economy, by increasing the cost of all ships. This is a relative advantage to people flying tech 2 ships and using tech 2 items[since the base price of the ship has very little correlation to the cost of the final item]

Dr. E is confusing "effect" with benefit and clearly doesn't understand domestic markets with imports and exports

Why?

Well, the best model for eves economy is as a domestic market with importers and exporters selling at fixed prices[so its equilibrium foreign markets]. I.E. NPCs. When you remove the ability of these foreign markets to trade with our domestic market you decrease the general welfare of the entire population.

To put this in language Dr. E can understand, you just put a Tariff or Quota on tritanium and tariffs and quotas are universally bad because they disrupt the free market.

edit: You need to understand that everything you are doing with regards to the economy is a balance change and not an economic change. Making economic change for the sake of economic changes does not work in a system where the gods could come down and spawn stuff for everyone[I.E. the devs could add stuff to the game for everyone].


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