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blankseplocked A lessoned learned -tips- on skill training to V
 
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gramb0
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:18:00 - [1]
 

Ok I'm writing this to tell people how important certain skills, I had to learn the hard way that getting everything to level 4 is a way to slip by, well unless your packing Faction or complex stuff it isn't. I thought I could get away with all my cap skills to IV(flying amarr *facepalm*) and all the gunnery to IV except small/med which I got to V. Now me flying around in a command ship is not the smartest idea with these skills, my tank was great I had all the mechanics to V but it didn't last long due to lack of cap skills and I couldn't do much dps cause lack of skills. So what I'm trying to say is don't go after the closest T2 cruiser w/o the support skills to V becuase IV will only get you so far. So now i'm spending the next 4-5 months getting all those skills to V.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:40:00 - [2]
 

I'm glad you learned a lesson, but I think you may have learned the wrong lesson...

Shouldn't the lesson be that you should know the limitations of your ship and your skills? Sure training more skills to V will help, and it's a good idea if you've got nothing else useful to train, but it's no guarantee for survival.

gramb0
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:40:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: gramb0 on 15/04/2008 22:42:22
but it surely as hell increases the chance when rolling around in a 300m ship lol

EDIT: well getting gunneries to V increases my dps about 75-100 lol

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:48:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: gramb0
Edited by: gramb0 on 15/04/2008 22:42:22
but it surely as hell increases the chance when rolling around in a 300m ship lol

EDIT: well getting gunneries to V increases my dps about 75-100 lol


But what if you get into a situation where you'd need 200 more instead of 100? Then even your skills at V won't help you. That's why it's more important to know where your limits are as opposed to simply pushing your limits a bit further.

gramb0
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:51:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: gramb0
Edited by: gramb0 on 15/04/2008 22:42:22
but it surely as hell increases the chance when rolling around in a 300m ship lol

EDIT: well getting gunneries to V increases my dps about 75-100 lol


But what if you get into a situation where you'd need 200 more instead of 100? Then even your skills at V won't help you. That's why it's more important to know where your limits are as opposed to simply pushing your limits a bit further.


in a fight every percentage counts it's always that extra 2 or 3 percent that puts that person on top, now if you plan on blobbing hell you can make it with level 3s but not suggested lol

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.04.15 22:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: gramb0
in a fight every percentage counts it's always that extra 2 or 3 percent that puts that person on top


That's true; in fact, there's no way that statement or statements like that could ever not be true. "If A counts, A counts." No ****.

What I've been saying in the previous posts is that you'll have to know when it counts for it to be useful. If you always rush into any engagement without thinking, those extra percentages won't do you much good.

gramb0
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.15 23:08:00 - [7]
 

ahh you mean the great joys of being blobbed, yeah there's that but thats if your around in 0.0 most of the time if your a low sec wanderer like I then yea it really kicks ya in the ass if you don't have it.

William Darkk
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.04.16 06:38:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: gramb0
ahh you mean the great joys of being blobbed, yeah there's that but thats if your around in 0.0 most of the time if your a low sec wanderer like I then yea it really kicks ya in the ass if you don't have it.


Or even if you're just matched poorly. Say you run into a jamming/tackling ship and don't have any ECCM. He'll peck you to death while you can't lock him. This is just a hypothetical example but I'm sure there's situations where you'd be unable to win one-on-one due to fit/ship disparity of focus.

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2008.04.16 15:23:00 - [9]
 

You are in a fight and are doing just enough damage to break your target's tank (say 1% over). Your total effective DPS output is 1% of your total DPS because your target's tank is absorbing the other 99%. If you could increase your total DPS by 5%, you are now going to be doing 6% more DPS than your target's tank can absorb, an increase your total effective DPS (DPS minus tank) of 600%.

As another example, consider the case where you're doing 1% less DPS than your target's tank can absorb. That extra 5% damage is the difference between breaking your target's tank and not.

Other things like locking speed and locking range also see a huge impact from small changes; at 22km you have a target scrammed, at 23km they get away. One more level in Long Range Targeting and you would have had that target locked and scrammed instead of it warping off.

Granted, not every situation will be this extreme, but you can see how small improvements can make a huge difference.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.04.16 17:36:00 - [10]
 

The question is simple - am I better off investing a week taking Skill A from level 4-5, or taking Skills B, C, D and E from level 3-4?

Everything being equal, it's the second option. Of course, everything isn't equal, which is why certain skills must be taken to level 5 asap. Wink

gramb0
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.16 18:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
The question is simple - am I better off investing a week taking Skill A from level 4-5, or taking Skills B, C, D and E from level 3-4?

Everything being equal, it's the second option. Of course, everything isn't equal, which is why certain skills must be taken to level 5 asap. Wink


it depends like cap skills defintely to V but yeah getting everything to IV is a must

Chelone
Outside The Asylum
Posted - 2008.04.22 00:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: gramb0
in a fight every percentage counts it's always that extra 2 or 3 percent that puts that person on top, now if you plan on blobbing hell you can make it with level 3s but not suggested lol


Got some news for you. More than 95% of your PvP fights will not be fairly matched. So in fact, the extra 4.1666% or whatever you gain from those L5 skills, most of the time, won't have mattered either way. Either you will be outclassed, outnumbered, paper-scissors-rocked, or you will do one of those to your enemy.

The L5's are good, they will help you, but for the big picture, you are blowing them way out of proportion.

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.04.25 22:33:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: gramb0
in a fight every percentage counts it's always that extra 2 or 3 percent that puts that person on top, now if you plan on blobbing hell you can make it with level 3s but not suggested lol


Got some news for you. More than 95% of your PvP fights will not be fairly matched. So in fact, the extra 4.1666% or whatever you gain from those L5 skills, most of the time, won't have mattered either way. Either you will be outclassed, outnumbered, paper-scissors-rocked, or you will do one of those to your enemy.

The L5's are good, they will help you, but for the big picture, you are blowing them way out of proportion.


QFT.

If 1v1's were really all that common, especially 1v1's of evenly matched ships, there'd be more to the argument of the extra 5% making or breaking. It's easy to give an example which shows an extreme example of breaking a tank by 1% and make a big deal out of the lvl 5 skill versus lvl 4. However, in a small gang and larger, one skill on one player being boosted by 5% is rather trivial. It definitely helps, but don't make it out to be more than it really is.

Also, did you take this shiny new command ship out in pvp, or lose it pve? I'm guessing pvp. Did you lose it 1v1? Or more likely, did they just call you primary first and pop your shiny new ship? Razz

Pteranodon
Caldari
Rekall Incorporated
Posted - 2008.06.11 12:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bronson Hughes
You are in a fight and are doing just enough damage to break your target's tank (say 1% over). Your total effective DPS output is 1% of your total DPS because your target's tank is absorbing the other 99%. If you could increase your total DPS by 5%, you are now going to be doing 6% more DPS than your target's tank can absorb, an increase your total effective DPS (DPS minus tank) of 600%.

As another example, consider the case where you're doing 1% less DPS than your target's tank can absorb. That extra 5% damage is the difference between breaking your target's tank and not.

Other things like locking speed and locking range also see a huge impact from small changes; at 22km you have a target scrammed, at 23km they get away. One more level in Long Range Targeting and you would have had that target locked and scrammed instead of it warping off.

Granted, not every situation will be this extreme, but you can see how small improvements can make a huge difference.


I always have situations in missioning when the rats seem to know the limitations of your current skills and fly 1 km outside your maximum targetting range. B*ST%$#s!!

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: gramb0
in a fight every percentage counts it's always that extra 2 or 3 percent that puts that person on top, now if you plan on blobbing hell you can make it with level 3s but not suggested lol


Got some news for you. More than 95% of your PvP fights will not be fairly matched. So in fact, the extra 4.1666% or whatever you gain from those L5 skills, most of the time, won't have mattered either way. Either you will be outclassed, outnumbered, paper-scissors-rocked, or you will do one of those to your enemy.

The L5's are good, they will help you, but for the big picture, you are blowing them way out of proportion.


QFT.

Athamai
Posted - 2008.06.13 14:12:00 - [16]
 

Sure it's great to have a bunch of 5's... But the choice early on is really 1 level V or 5.6 skills to Level 4. Honestly the 5 skills to IV is generally superior. Skills go like this:

I 0.0804% Total Training(250 SP)
II 0.4548% Total Training(1414 SP)
III 2.5730% Total Training(8000 SP)
IV 14.5552% Total Training(45255 SP)
V 82.3366% Total Training(256000 SP)

82% of your total training time on that skill is getting it to Level V.

This is for a Rank-1 skill. If it's a rank-2 multiply everything by 2 :)

Originally by: gramb0
Ok I'm writing this to tell people how important certain skills, I had to learn the hard way that getting everything to level 4 is a way to slip by, well unless your packing Faction or complex stuff it isn't. I thought I could get away with all my cap skills to IV(flying amarr *facepalm*) and all the gunnery to IV except small/med which I got to V. Now me flying around in a command ship is not the smartest idea with these skills, my tank was great I had all the mechanics to V but it didn't last long due to lack of cap skills and I couldn't do much dps cause lack of skills. So what I'm trying to say is don't go after the closest T2 cruiser w/o the support skills to V becuase IV will only get you so far. So now i'm spending the next 4-5 months getting all those skills to V.

Rawblin
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.06.14 01:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Athamai
Sure it's great to have a bunch of 5's... But the choice early on is really 1 level V or 5.6 skills to Level 4. Honestly the 5 skills to IV is generally superior. Skills go like this:

I 0.0804% Total Training(250 SP)
II 0.4548% Total Training(1414 SP)
III 2.5730% Total Training(8000 SP)
IV 14.5552% Total Training(45255 SP)
V 82.3366% Total Training(256000 SP)

82% of your total training time on that skill is getting it to Level V.

This is for a Rank-1 skill. If it's a rank-2 multiply everything by 2 :)


I think we should just stick to multiplying the SP needed by 2, and leave the percentages as is... Wink


 

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