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CCP Saint


C C P
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:49:00 - [1]
 

CCP Ginger and Hutch bring you into the world of the Volunteer program once again. Speaking on YARR, the newest addition to the team and introducing EVElopedia. Check out Keeping the Hoff out of EVE to find out more about the team and how you can become a part of making EVElopedia a success!

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:58:00 - [2]
 

YAARRR!!! YARRRR!!

Trinity Dusk
Art of War
Posted - 2008.04.14 18:40:00 - [3]
 

Surely good guides in single location will help the playerbase, especially newer players. Smile

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.04.14 18:57:00 - [4]
 

evelopedia? err ok... not really all that great an idea. Such a thing already exists and nobody uses it because you sort of need to know what you are looking for in terms of an encyclopedia. Instead there are so many other good options that EVE-official could spend their time in doing?

When was the last time the Item Database was updated?

I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.

What's with all these teams being made that have virtually no purpose?

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=WikiHome
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

I like the grismar one.

Haks'he Lirky
Durgarnir
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:22:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?

I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.


So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Hoshi on 14/04/2008 19:30:30
Not sure if it's still the plan but the main thing that was supposed to make this thing different than other eve wikias would be context sensitive access ingame. If someone clicks the ? button on the scan probe window it would open up the evelopedia article about scan probes (that just might be my guide :) for example.

Lab Technician071548
Astro-Support Services
East India Company
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:31:00 - [7]
 

This sounds like a way for CCP to avoid paying someone to document their game.

I recall a ship reimbursement request that was refused because there was an undocumented and, as far as I can tell, unknown to the general population method for getting out of the situation that I was in.

On the good side, at least this kind of stupid stuff that is generated entirely by CCPs own refusal to document the game adequately will be addressed to some degree.

Yay CCP, way to get people to put in uncompensated time documenting your product for you.

Avalira
Caldari
The Black Light Foundation
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:46:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lab Technician071548
This sounds like a way for CCP to avoid paying someone to document their game.
*snip*
Yay CCP, way to get people to put in uncompensated time documenting your product for you.


It's not the first time they do it, but I actually think this is a good idea. It will be official information and with enough hands it will be properly documented. CCP will probably remove the item database on the website and link it directly to the Wiki.

The wiki has the potential to become much more than this website ever could, holding vast amounts of information and if done correctly it will be easily accessible too.

Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:47:00 - [9]
 

I think an official EVElopedia will be cool. BUT, only if it works in game, and all items (ships, mods, skills, etc) are links to the object's info window. So if you look up "Minmatar battleships", it wont simply list the names of them, but you will be able to click the names, and bring up info windows. Also, as already posted above, the ability to click a ? in the info window or something so you can get the wiki explanation of an item.

Another thing, how can you flame people who aren't on staff, for not doing staff jobs? The people on this team haven't been taken off "fix the game" team, they are unpaid volunteers. You may as well yell at your neighbor for not fixing the database on EVE, it will have the same effect.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.04.14 19:55:00 - [10]
 

I hope that you still make everything tied right into in-game, so that you can read up as if it it was a gaint in game FAQ.

the new welcome page should have a link and such and it should open in-game.

Also make it so you have to have been playing for 3 months before you can edit, because to be honest before 3 months you won't have anything to add.

maybe even more elitle year old players only? new players shouldn't wine about not being able to add info if they don't know how the game works yet.

Lab Technician071548
Astro-Support Services
East India Company
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Reptzo
Another thing, how can you flame people who aren't on staff, for not doing staff jobs? The people on this team haven't been taken off "fix the game" team, they are unpaid volunteers. You may as well yell at your neighbor for not fixing the database on EVE, it will have the same effect.


I don't think anybody has flamed the individuals. The only negativity I see is coming from people, like myself, who wonder why CCP has not documented their own game in the past and why they are now allowing volunteers to do it. I think there are many reasons for why this is so. The newer people who are frustrated that they can't find anything decent to explain how to perform rudimentary tasks in the game come to mind. Or, as in my case, people who get _(*&ed on a petition because of some undocumented feature within the game.

As far as the volunteers are concerned, more power to them in creating the content that CCP should have spent time and money on. I rather suspect that they are not on the verge of bankruptcy.

ISD Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc


ISD YARR
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:50:00 - [12]
 

Just thought I would say hi, and tell everyone that I would love to answer all the questions about the EVELopedia, but I can only answer you questions about the ISD team.

Einsteina TX
Caldari
The Black Light Foundation
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:52:00 - [13]
 

I thinks that some of you forget that EVElopedia was proposed a while back. And as I remember it was proposed as a In game as well as an Out game ressources.

So lets say you have a module's description that you do not understand, you'll just have to click the included EvElopedia link and get a whole lot more of information.

I do hope I'm not mistaken as this would greatly improve the EvExperience.

Ricky1989
Caldari
Militaris Industries
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:56:00 - [14]
 

I've applied for this, I am really interested!

Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:09:00 - [15]
 

We hate Hoff!

Grrrr....

Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:13:00 - [16]
 

May I remind those posting here not to mention that they've applied to ISD? You may want to edit your post. ISD has very strict confidentiality rules.

Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power.
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lab Technician071548
As far as the volunteers are concerned, more power to them in creating the content that CCP should have spent time and money on. I rather suspect that they are not on the verge of bankruptcy.


I can't think of any MMO that doesn't utilize volunteers for everything from documentation to customer service. Documenting any software project can easily be a significant portion of development costs.

But besides the monetary savings, who should document EVE? The developers, instead of fixing bugs and adding features? Have you ever seen the results of a developer attempting to document a system? Ugh!

Should EVE hire contract writers, who never saw EVE prior to shopping for the contract?

It seems clear to me that the only way to even hope to capture all of the nuances of EVE is to have the entire community Wiki it in a semi-moderated fashion.

-Grid

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.04.14 23:42:00 - [18]
 

Good to see this has gotten off the ground, and I hope that the ISD has something special in mind to thank/induct the players who run the 3-4 EvE Wiki's in existence today, as well as the players who contribute to said Wikis.


Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.04.14 23:47:00 - [19]
 

Eve volunteers - doing ccp's job for them.


tla s'hpyt
Posted - 2008.04.15 00:08:00 - [20]
 

seems like a good idea.... i still don't get why ppl are complaining that ccp let us help make eve stuff, it save ccp money (which they can use for say.. a jita specific server) it gives ppl like me who want to get into game making an opportunity to get a little into it, and the ppl complaining don't have to do anything they don't want to.... =s

anyways after reading first 2 paragraphs i thought "there is gonna be a lot of rick rolling coming from the /b/tards who play eve" (if u don't know don't ask) and that was before seeing the link to the video. I hope you make it so only experienced players can edit the wiki and keep good backups so if some alliance desides to go crazy and edit all wiki entries (not mentioning any names) you can bring it back without too much trouble. Other people might try and edit it just because they don't know how it reaally works or have it slightly wrong. Just make sure YARR have there own mini ban hammers to take care of problems like this, and a eve age limit for editing wiki would be good too.

One thing I'd like to see for this is YARR to come up with a list of content that should & shouldn't be in the wiki (just a general guide not a be all and end all of wiki content). content like "this module is effected by *** skills" should go in while stuff like "this module is currently overpowered, as are much of caldari items and ships" should not. It's not always that easy though, eg. a simple version of the tracking formula or some good setups this item can be used in, a in game history of uses of this item (eg. telling the newbs about multiple stacking mwd's of past), rare items like the old mines etc.

Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2008.04.15 00:11:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Katana Seiko on 15/04/2008 00:12:05
Well, if you'd do some things, I'm quite sure that this would be a success:
#1 restrict the writing to paying players only (players should be able to log in with their account info)
#2 restrict the guidelines to topics a little (i.e. "no articles about players, corporations or alliances allowed" and "no personal information may be included")
#3 give it a subdomain of eve-online.com - maybe wiki.eve-online.com
#4 don't call it EVElopedia. "EVEpedia" or "EVE wiki" sound way better.Very Happy
#5 make it multi-language (all languages that EVE supports should be supported in EVEpedia)

halykon
Posted - 2008.04.15 01:12:00 - [22]
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but. The eve-wiki is going to be a web based resource obtainable in game by using the in-game browser.. right? The people who are going to spend the most time looking at it are probably going to be new players, yes?
With that in mind, it means newer players are going to spend a lot more time looking at the horror that is the in game browser, its going to become a major defining feature of the game(the wiki, not the browser). So shouldn't we update the browser a bit to where it'll actually handle most page renders? License it off Mozilla, something. I don't care if I'm able to view a youtube video in the browser or not, but to be able to handle forms correctly would be nice.

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:43:00 - [23]
 

about frakkin time! YARRRR!!

Zoi Opia
Opia Investments
Posted - 2008.04.15 05:47:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Katana Seiko
#2 restrict the guidelines to topics a little (i.e. "no articles about players, corporations or alliances allowed" and "no personal information may be included")


I don't think this would be such a good idea. New Eden has a rich history created by these players, corporations and alliances, and not allowing it in would be a mistake. What better place for new players to learn about Chribba and Veldnought, The Great Northern War, Fall of ASCN, or even the current State of the Goonion than an official encyclopedia?

That being said, the volunteers should enforce neutral point of view on all articles, protect them from vandalism when required, and include disclaimers on articles discussing current events and thus subject to rapid change.

CDLPeacemaker
Posted - 2008.04.15 06:24:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: CDLPeacemaker on 15/04/2008 06:24:35
Give a man a Fish and he will eat and be happy for one day.
Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day, happy for the rest of his life.

PC5
Against Polish Authorities
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2008.04.15 11:47:00 - [26]
 

Another BORING dev blog. Mad

CCP Fear

Posted - 2008.04.15 13:04:00 - [27]
 

Just to answer a few questions about the wiki itself;

It will be accessible in-game. It was designed to be rendered within the IGB. The exact way of how it will function with the "?" is not yet decided, but that was it's intended purpose.

The item database will be available within it, will all relevant information and will be up to date ;)

The basic principle behind a wiki, is that it is updated quickly by those who know. If it is a favourite setup of a ship, nice systems to mine in etc. whatever, it is your tool to use.

Only paying accounts will be able do edit and add pages to the wiki. Others will have view access only

The subdomain will be under the eve-online.com, but there might be a seperate domain as well.

The name went through months of name calling, conventions and so forth, we thought about the "EVE Wiki" and "EvePedia" etc, and we settled on the EVElopedia as it's final name.

It uses MediaWiki, and that has built in multi language support. However, that is up to you guys, to populate in your own language as well.

The guidelines for the wiki are similar to the forums, constructive and helpful. Which it all is about. The same rules apply, cause problems and you aren't allowed back.

The wiki is thought as a community tool for you, which we will moderate to keep it in tact and not a huge mess of inflamatory stuff that nobody will then want to read.

But there will be more news about this once we are closer to release.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.04.15 13:11:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?

I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.


So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?


Why do volunteers and informal figure so heavily into the CCP corporate thinking? It boggles the mind given their incredibly lackluster record. Volunteer rp people, volunteer bug reporters, volunteer translators (especially terrible at that), volunteer documenters, volunteer forum moderators, volunteer reporters...

What ever happened to professional distance?

Do we have volunteers doing ship balancing, handling petitions and server administration too?

Unreal.

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.15 13:25:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: DEVILSENIGMA on 15/04/2008 13:28:37
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Jason Edwards
When was the last time the Item Database was updated?

I'm amazed the rorqual got included and nothing else... evemon and eft both seem to keep on top of things.


So you want volunteers to update the Item Database? Why?


Why do volunteers and informal figure so heavily into the CCP corporate thinking? It boggles the mind given their incredibly lackluster record. Volunteer rp people, volunteer bug reporters, volunteer translators (especially terrible at that), volunteer documenters, volunteer forum moderators, volunteer reporters...



Because Eve is a really huge game, with a lot of players. A lot of ideas are made possible due to help of volunteers. Its simple, CCP is providing you a way to help the game. If you want to help out then join, otherwise dont.

Think of it this way, instead of having a un-supported Eve wiki run by fans, CCP is providing its support for a wiki. I think that is a step up. How many companies do you see allowing players to help better the game? If you could make game <X> better by helping out, wouldn't you?

If I had the time to help Eve (and didn't work for a rival gaming company) then I would definitely join. I don't see what problem you have with volunteers.

Quote:

What ever happened to professional distance?

Do we have volunteers doing ship balancing, handling petitions and server administration too?

Unreal.


All those are done by dedicated devs and always has been, no need to spice up your post by posting ridiculous notions. Razz

PS; Forum moderators are no longer volunteers

PPS; Is this the real "Erotic Irony" or has his char been sold?

Brutal Psycho
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2008.04.15 13:30:00 - [30]
 

I wonder why it is sometime that people are so quick to complain.
Look at the Microsoft model of thing: Tight control on development and input. Result: Windows Vista, the new laughing stock of operating systems with more bugs than could be imagined.

Now Look at LINUX: Completely developed by those skilled real world individual under open source compilation. Result: Far more stable system

Having volunteers is a great way of making a product better. If you invest your personal time and effort in to something your more apt to do it right than if you get payed for it else you would not have volunteered your services. So instead of complaining all the time why not get involved? Adding negative things to this thread or others has not improved a single thing about our collective game experience. Get involved and it will. That's just my 2 cents.


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