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Brisco County
Caldari
The Shadow Plague
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.03 22:49:00 - [61]
 

The rewards just don't follow the risk involved for lowsec mining. A miner can hug empire for more or less the same reward as low sec, or join a 0.0 corp where there is (arguably) less risk than lowsec mining and much better reward.

Tarantelita
Minmatar
Ragna Rok Corp
Posted - 2008.04.03 22:54:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: thoth foc
i vote.. remove low sec.. make the lazy pvp'ers cry

YARRRR!!



1) I say remove all kind of "cyno hauling machanics" (so you need to do real travel).

2) Remove 0 km warp in and change the game machanincs so you cant make ss 300km around gates and stations.

3) Remove all redicules items that gives one ship "endless with shield or armor", or uber resistens.

4) Remove all the "noob patches" that have been made only for the noobs in game.

Today you cant to sh** if your not in a big f****** gang roaming, or in a big alliance. SP:s dosent matter this days.

This game have evolved around the noobs and lamers. Soon EVE will be = WOW.

Twisted Evil


Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2008.04.03 22:59:00 - [63]
 

%
I don't know what most of you all are complaining about. 99.9% of you are not pirates. I can count the number of "true" pirates on one hand.

your nano ships, your ms gate camping, the "originators" of the blob, were pirates. Moo in aunenen with 15 bs tanking the othelo gate guns did it for you, blazed your trail down the road to your own makings, ruin...

Its not the game, its the players that made set your bar so low in the beginning. You have been out-adapted, and lack vision for the next step. Were there one or two still among you(now) who had such a thing, you wouldn't be where you are today...


Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
Posted - 2008.04.03 23:39:00 - [64]
 

Pirating is not dead. Done well you can cover losses from loot fitting your ships T2, best named and faction where needed, and still have isk to spare. I know because we do.

I used to live in 0.0 as a pvper and it was fun but decent targets where few and far between. When we moved to low sec about 8 months ago the target density was excellent. Lately we have noticed a fall off in low sec population and we will need to mix up our hunting grounds to try and help our area regenerate. I suspect the biggest factor hitting our local area is the decline of some long time anti-pirate organisations.

CCP have mentioned they are looking at measures to rejuvenate low sec which may help.

I find the "real men pvp in 0.0" line really funny. In terms of the quality of opponents you find in 0.0 and low sec I've met quality and crap in both. In low sec we have had the pleasure of visits from MDK, Veto, Tri, Snigg, Einherjar Rising, RA, MC, DNA, Red Skull, etc, plus the pleasure of having The Church living next door. Lately there has been a decline in quality opponents but it is hopefully temporary. In the meantime we will have to get out into 0.0 a bit and visit old stomping grounds.

Piracy is not *just* killing people. Many groups come to low sec creating power relations that change rapidly. How you deal with these threats/opportunities shapes your future. We like to shot everyone and prey as heavily as possible on any pirate competition while others build coalitions of blues. Over time you get to see which is more successful - so far shooting everyone is looking good.

Yarrr!



Ackaroth
Gallente
Plundering Penguins
Anarchy.
Posted - 2008.04.04 01:10:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Corwain
Edited by: Corwain on 03/04/2008 03:26:18
Originally by: Princess Jodi
Good. I approve of Piracy being dead.


Ironic since you're a dirty pirate yourself. Just not a -10 one. Guess you've given it up last since I fight your losec Ishtar. Props for not nanoing, -props to me for running away after you jammed me the first two cycles of the fight (lucky b...nah, just kidding).


Didn't read whole thread, but found this funny. The guy is in a corp called Die With Honor and he ran from a fight. Anyway, carry on.

Badgerus
Caldari
Emporium Armo
Posted - 2008.04.04 01:12:00 - [66]
 

Terminate "local" chat, or put into options for turning it to "off" if you wish to not bee seen (and see others) in locsl, for start, and youl have all new world out there...

Lenaria
Caldari
Ursa Ritor
Posted - 2008.04.04 01:45:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Badgerus
Terminate "local" chat, or put into options for turning it to "off" if you wish to not bee seen (and see others) in locsl, for start, and youl have all new world out there...
Do it and you'll never see a single miner or mission runners in low sec ever again.

Dr Kojak
Gallente
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 08:29:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Lenaria
Originally by: Badgerus
Terminate "local" chat, or put into options for turning it to "off" if you wish to not bee seen (and see others) in locsl, for start, and youl have all new world out there...
Do it and you'll never see a single miner or mission runners in low sec ever again.


So, what's new?

MADDOGzors
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 08:31:00 - [69]
 

How about you take a look at a few good pirate corp killboards, then try to cry about pirating going downhill. There's plenty of targets and always will be. Some pirate corps just don't realize when they've dried up an area and it's time to move.

We pirate for fun and the isk, and neither is running out. Learn to adapt you nubs.

Dr Kojak
Gallente
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 08:41:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Dr Kojak on 04/04/2008 08:54:46
I am not saying that there is a scarcity of targets, it is just that when you compare todays situation to that of a year or two ago it is concernably different.

Lowsec has got a reasonably good potential for both pirates and industrialists/miners/missionrunners; it is just that CCP has failed implement lowsec as a good alternative to highsec and 0.0.

As to your comment on moving around when targets in one area is depleted; well it is very much doable if the corp is small or if the time-to-next-move is longer than a couple of weeks. Other than that it is either a logistic hassle or a nice way to loose members that are fed up with having to move all the time.

Dr K

MADDOGzors
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 08:58:00 - [71]
 

It's actually quite easy to move when you have carriers and jump freighters. Also, if you have half a brain you realize that you don't have to move far to see a surplus of targets again. If your corp strictly pirates, you don't need more than 20 active pilots. When it's a slow night you go roaming or whatever you need to do to find targets.

There's plenty of smaller alliances living in low-sec to find good fights with. There's ****** role-players like CVA always trying to bring a fight. There's plenty of 0.0 alliances roaming low-sec trying to hot drop caps on us, that continue to fail I might add.

I'll even use our corp as an example. We moved into Aridia a few months ago. We killed the traffic in the area badly and we moved to Kor-Azor. There was another pirate corp in the system we wanted to make home so we kicked them out. Now that we're close to a major market hub there will always be traffic as well as the smaller alliances to pick on in the area. We adapted and are enjoying the benefits. Pirating is easy and there's never a lack of fights so I don't see what everyone is complaining about.

Leilah Eldgorn
Caldari
Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
Posted - 2008.04.04 08:59:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Leilah Eldgorn on 04/04/2008 09:00:29
Pirating isn't dead it's just not profitable in low sec and 0.0. That's if you mean pirating is solo/small gang ganking for ISK.

You don't see much haulers or miners with profitable loot (unless they make some funny mistake or are just otherwise silly) in low sec or 0.0. I tried once low sec mining. It was pretty much crap, like all mining is.. except mining crokite or arkonor etc. in -1.0 true sec with maxed skills and hulk. In 0.0 specially, hauling is too risky with normal hauler so everyone moves stuff with carriers/jump freighters and pirates will never see them (unless they make some silly mistakes).

Mission running in low sec/0.0 is only viable option if you find peaceful place for it. Otherwise you have like 20 wannabe pirates wanting to gank your mission running raven, even though it would have crap loot.

Major problem for all this, in my opinion, is that ships/players and divided into carebearing ones and pvp ones. This discourages mission running etc. in "pvp" areas like low sec and 0.0 since your mission running raven is just sitting duck against anything bigger than t1 frigate. If you could really do missions or other carebearing (like mining) with a ship which could at least have a chance to realistically kick back it would be much more lucrative idea to be in low sec.

Furthermore, I think pirating mechanism is pretty much not working atm. Security status is a kind of e-peen joke. Pirating in high sec seems more profitable than anywhere... etc. I don't think low sec alone needs any oomph but, oh well. Let's say you go roaming for 40 jumps in 0.0 for few hours and gank like 10 battleships, you might get maybe 10mil worth of loot and lose 300mil after getting blobbed in some random bubble camp etc.

Just my 5 cents.

Dr Kojak
Gallente
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 09:23:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: MADDOGzors
It's actually quite easy to move when you have carriers and jump freighters. Also, if you have half a brain you realize that you don't have to move far to see a surplus of targets again. If your corp strictly pirates, you don't need more than 20 active pilots. When it's a slow night you go roaming or whatever you need to do to find targets.



We used to have many more members than we have today; two years ago we could easily provide 200 members with fun around a lowsec area and in the 0.0 regions close by. Then, targets slowly left lowsec for 0.0 and it became difficult to maintain a large corp. I agree with you in carriers and jump freighters being great assets when moving, but when your numbers are large you will have to move fairly often, too often really.

Of course it is easy to move around when you have 20 members, but that low numbers usually mean that you will have to avoid larger blobs altogether. Some of us prefer to spank the blob instead of running, like I know you have to do with 20 active members if the blob is 40+.

There is a solution to every problem. However, I do not think having to downsize a corporation is a good thing to be able to thrive in lowsec. I would rather have CCP pull their act together and make a final decision on what they want to accomplish with low-sec.

Kosh Ohura
Caldari
Deep Space N00bs
Posted - 2008.04.04 09:24:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Leilah Eldgorn

Major problem for all this, in my opinion, is that ships/players and divided into carebearing ones and pvp ones.



This is actually very true and I would like to underline that again.
I mean, I can understand that haulers oder dedicated mining ships won't have a chance against pvp ships, and this is okay.

But why, oh why do you even have different game mechanics for fights against players and npcs? Why are people that do pve forced to use a ship fitting which will definitely be a sitting duck for any pvp wise fitted ships? What fun is there to be had for the mission runner sitting in his jammed, scrambled and webbed ship, waiting for the pvp fitted player to finally break his tank? Noone in his right mind can enjoy that happening to him regularly.






Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.04.04 09:36:00 - [75]
 

Rolling Eyes pick a good system, targets a plenty,

Yogos
Gallente
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
Posted - 2008.04.04 09:44:00 - [76]
 

It is very simple what CCP need to do.

They must kill local chat.
Or at least make 5 min deley same as on other chats.

And IMO also it will require changes in scanner because plp will klick all the time on scanner.

Without local pvp will take new dimention.
And pvp corps will grow once more with not so sure intel this small fast gangs lunched from low sec will have bigger chances to find good fun in 0.0


Now it looks like there is msg on intel that gang is incoming and all smart plp hide on station/pos/ss with cloaked or are making fast counter BS gang.


Kosh Ohura
Caldari
Deep Space N00bs
Posted - 2008.04.04 09:56:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Kosh Ohura on 04/04/2008 09:59:09
Yeah right, god forbid that people might actually change to their pvp fittings and use ships that could counter yours Rolling Eyes

Sokratesz
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 10:17:00 - [78]
 

cant say i care, there's a few 'good' pirats out there but most of them are looking for an easy gank not a good fight, so **** them

Tuberider
Caldari
Pothouse Cartel
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.04.04 11:55:00 - [79]
 

i aint a pirate i'm a low sec ganker Rolling Eyes
gotta love it when a 0.0 alliance calls you that Twisted Evil
oh no a velator in our space,miners dock up,too the blob mobile batman Laughing

Pirating aint dead as long as you have jump out of low sec suckers
YOU JUST WISH IT WAS Razz



Valgren
Caldari
IDLE GUNS
Posted - 2008.04.04 12:00:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
cant say i care, there's a few 'good' pirats out there but most of them are looking for an easy gank not a good fight, so **** them


Any "true" pirate is looking for the easy gank, not a good fight. I don't know why I have to keep explaining this to people...pirates are here to kill you and take your stuff, and/or ransom your ship/pod. They are in it for the money, not the fight. If you're in it to fight, you're a combatant, not a pirate.

To the OP, i'm not really sure what you're going on about. I had 447 kills last month, all in low sec. Also made a little over a billion isk...granted not nearly as much as some rat farmer in 0.0, but considering I didn't have to kill a single rat or mine a single roid, i'm pretty happy with it.

But, since piracy is apparently dead, I guess i'll have to go back to 0.0. Rolling Eyes


Val


MADDOGzors
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 12:07:00 - [81]
 

You see that's my point, you don't need 200 pilots to pirate, that's overkill and a logistics/management nightmare. Why do we need 200 pilots when we already have control of our area with 20 good pilots. 40 man blobs? Anytime a gang comes looking for us we're outnumbered 90% of the time and I'll fight your 40 man blob with our 20 and hold the field. But if you feel the need to field 40 pilots against pirates you obviously have a lack of confidence in your alliance.

The problem is, a lot of us that turned to piracy, left 0.0 to avoid blobs, lag, and capitals. Most of the time when a 0.0 alliance comes to fight us they hot drop carriers because the previous times they fought us they left in pods. It's almost like they can't win an even numbered fight without lighting up a cyno. Just be careful who you hot drop, you'd be surprised of some pirates capital capabilities.

As far as piracy in low-sec not being profitable, that's a bunch of crap. Maybe if you fail at pvp and lose ships left and right I can see your point. There's plenty of isk being made and will continue to be that way. Just ask CVA about their 8bil vindicator that got too ****y with his damnation and bhaalgorn buddy one night.

Flashh Gorden
Caldari
Exile Consortium
Nihilists Social Club
Posted - 2008.04.04 12:15:00 - [82]
 

Camping a low sec gate hoping for idiots to jump in might be dying but piracy itself is as big today as its ever been.
Its moved on and evolved. Instead of individual players being held ransom its high sec industrial corps that are the victims.
Being Mercs we are constantly getting contract reqests to deal with these type of people.
The days of the low sec gate camp will never be completly over but the more intelegent of the pirate fraternity worked out that industrial corps avoid low sec and decided to take their piracy too high sec instead.

Tzrailasa
Gallente
Tzrailasa Corp
Posted - 2008.04.04 13:02:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Yogos
It is very simple what CCP need to do.

They must kill local chat.
Or at least make 5 min deley same as on other chats.

And IMO also it will require changes in scanner because plp will klick all the time on scanner.

Without local pvp will take new dimention.
And pvp corps will grow once more with not so sure intel this small fast gangs lunched from low sec will have bigger chances to find good fun in 0.0

Now it looks like there is msg on intel that gang is incoming and all smart plp hide on station/pos/ss with cloaked or are making fast counter BS gang.

As much as I like the concept of this, realistically it'll not work.

Taking away local will give hunters a devastating advantage, meaning soon there'd be no prey!
Currently hunters already outnumber the prey! No wonder the prey stays away!
The real solution if this is taken into account is to make pirating harder, not easier!
The effective pirate feasts, the less effective starve!

Let CONCORD protect stations and gates in low-sec. People could then get into and around low-sec with relative ease, but once they start earning money there they're vulnerable.

(and no, increasing low-sec earnings is not an option....)

Dr Kojak
Gallente
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.04 13:55:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Dr Kojak on 04/04/2008 13:55:46
Originally by: MADDOGzors
You see that's my point, you don't need 200 pilots to pirate, that's overkill and a logistics/management nightmare. Why do we need 200 pilots when we already have control of our area with 20 good pilots. 40 man blobs? Anytime a gang comes looking for us we're outnumbered 90% of the time and I'll fight your 40 man blob with our 20 and hold the field. But if you feel the need to field 40 pilots against pirates you obviously have a lack of confidence in your alliance.

Just be careful who you hot drop, you'd be surprised of some pirates capital capabilities.


It is not about having 200 people to pirate. It is about having fun around low-sec and still have the possibility to spank entire alliances in larger fights, be it low-sec or 0.0. Of course we pick our fights like all pirates, or low-sec gankers or call-it-whatever; but often opportunities present themselves that a small corp cannot handle on their own. (no pun intended)

Personally I am very found of small gang on gang warfare, but I do enjoy some large high-stakes fights every now and then. Since our numbers started to go down (Infinitus Odiums that is), we changed locations accordingly and are going back to where we started out after the beta. I agree that one has to adapt and change and have no problem realising that larger corps face a better future in 0.0 as it is now; however I do not agree that going 0.0 should be the only way to go. Whats the point of low-sec?

For your viewing pleasure; this is what we used to be able to do in lowsec as well as close-by 0.0: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=419740

Dr Kojak
Infinitus Odium
The Church

Lucius Ventrue
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.04.04 14:19:00 - [85]
 

just make HIC bubbles work in low sec

problem solved

Hobblah
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.04.04 15:32:00 - [86]
 

Currently there is overabundance of pirates and random gankers. It is fairly easy now and if it would be made any easier, there just would be more of said professions.

Even though I'm not a pirate, I like Eve becouse you can be pirate or a merc or part of territorial army or industrialist or politician.

What I would like to see more is might have some kind of impact on the fun of pirates. I would like to see some kind of ISK sink for industrials. Some kind of endgame, a purpose for the money, something that would give them reason to get more ISK without making huge inflation. At the same time the blance between Hi-Low-Null sec should be adjusted.

Currently it seems that many people just hoard isk and get lazy when they have enough or throw the ISK to PVP. First leads to situation where there are no targets for pirates, second leads to overpopulation of people fighting for sake of fighting (wannabe pirates).

I dont have good suggestion how to really do this. Something in form of structures or achievements that gives industrialist (or mission runner or trader) feeling of success. Something like killmails are to random gankers.

I want to see situation where industrialist/mission runner thinks of his operation and sees that he/she gets more from low-sec but with higher risk.

If the low-sec (and mayby 0.0) is made easier for pirates and more profitable for non-pirates, there just will be more pirates. I would not like to see any alliance claiming (and succeeding in enforcing the claim) the low-sec either. That could happen in certain situations.

Johnny Gurkha
Caldari
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.04.04 16:21:00 - [87]
 

Turn Local chat into Constellation chat so if you don't speak your not seen. Bring back the local bug dammit! That was hella fun... YARRRR!!

Murtala
Caldari
Mushin Market
Posted - 2008.04.04 16:44:00 - [88]
 

Removing local won't work in getting people to lo-sec.

The hunter will simply drop a few probes and warp to the target that won't know what hit him till he wakes up in his new clone.

"Local" is of greater benefit to the prey than the hunter.

Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War
Posted - 2008.04.04 17:06:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Yakov Draken on 04/04/2008 17:07:58
Originally by: Valgren
Originally by: Sokratesz
cant say i care, there's a few 'good' pirats out there but most of them are looking for an easy gank not a good fight, so **** them


Any "true" pirate is looking for the easy gank, not a good fight.

Seriously - "true" pirate? ugh

I live off piracy and the ganks are fun but if it was just ganks I'd be back in 0.0. Last couple of weeks we have only had one decent sized good fight and the guys are getting a bit edgy - they want their fix. The adrenaline rush of committing to a situation not knowing what the outcome will be is too good to miss. For us the point of all the phat loot is to spend on ships we lose in the real fights. Sure we have good fights where we lose nothing against theoretically superior forces but if you aren't losing ships you arn't commiting to truly close fights. That might seem smart but for what is a fat bank account? We are not real life pirates we are Eve pirates replete with clones and insurance on ships - we can afford to be aggressive.

I think Kojak has a point. His lot have been pirating a long time and while newer outfits have been born to deal with low sec as it is the older ones grew out of a more vibriant low sec. I've read the stories from Moldenheath and the fights with the anti-pirates - it sounded like a heap of fun. Since then it seems carriers, and now jump freighters, have slowly whittled away at low sec population forcing old style pirate corps into 0.0 or to become smaller. From what I saw of the Church you guys were simply to big, and cap heavy, to settle into Placid. I'm hoping CCP can take us back to the days of a bustling low sec through faction warfare but I know that day might never come.

Anti-pirates seem to be an important part of keeping the population up in low sec - I miss COE. :(

Orar Ironfist
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.04.04 18:00:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Tarantelita
Originally by: thoth foc
i vote.. remove low sec.. make the lazy pvp'ers cry

YARRRR!!



1) I say remove all kind of "cyno hauling machanics" (so you need to do real travel).

2) Remove 0 km warp in and change the game machanincs so you cant make ss 300km around gates and stations.

3) Remove all redicules items that gives one ship "endless with shield or armor", or uber resistens.

4) Remove all the "noob patches" that have been made only for the noobs in game.

Today you cant to sh** if your not in a big f****** gang roaming, or in a big alliance. SP:s dosent matter this days.

This game have evolved around the noobs and lamers. Soon EVE will be = WOW.

Twisted Evil




So more or less you want ships to not be able to fly/fit any mods/and make it so capital ships can use stargates? Wth are you smokin?!Shocked


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