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blankseplocked View from 70+ sp player: remove all learning skills from game
 
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Nylarthotep
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.29 00:50:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
First off, a few facts:
1) Implants first added as agent rewards (Patch 1215, September 2003)
2) Advanced learning skills added, and they required level 5 of the basic to train (Patch 1755, September 2004)
3) Requirements for advanced learning skills dropped from 5 to 4 (Patch 27912, November 2006)

So, when I started, advanced learning skills and implants weren't even in the game (May 2003), but guess what, after almost 5 years of playing I have enough skills to enjoy some of the more advanced aspects of EVE.

When a new player joins they aren't forced to train cybernetics or the learning skills, its optional. And TBH, five years from now, they all should have more points than I have currently because they have these options from the start.

A new player doesn't really need learning skills, they need to learn the basics, indeed learn the game !

Once they have their skills up to level 4, they should have a pretty good idea if they want to continue playing and then they should train learning skills before working on the longer level 5 skills.

*IF* CCP were to remove learning skills, what would we get to replace it ? All attributes increased by 10 ? You do realise that this would also apply to the older players too don't you ?

What would the older players get to replace the lost SP, all the training time invested (= RL cash) into skills of their choice ? Not a simple SP for SP calculation, but the equivalent SPs for the same time investment.

EVE is all about choice, and you can choose whether or not you want to learn these skills to get that advantage, nobody is forcing anyone to train them.

There is no instant gratification in EVE, and nor should there ever be, not even when learning learning skills.



Umm I would like to point out that there is a major difference between instant gratification and waiting(and Paying!) for five years before I can even begin to touch some of the advanced aspects in eve. Now I love eve and I do enjoy it very much, but the whole skill system was a well thought up way to make them more money, there is no other reason period. Eve would have millions of players if the bar of entry to the advanced portions of the game didn't take years of training to enjoy. That is why they can't keep people, it takes years to get to all the really cool fun stuff. That being said, I've been playing since beta, so I don't wanna hear any well I sucked it up and so should you arguments, they are pointless and only serve to not help the future of this game.

Stefx
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2008.03.29 01:46:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: Chith
remove all learning skills


I support this product.

Morag Tong
Posted - 2008.03.29 14:57:00 - [483]
 

Edited by: Morag Tong on 29/03/2008 15:00:07
Edited by: Morag Tong on 29/03/2008 14:59:27
Originally by: Nylarthotep
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
First off, a few facts:
1) Implants first added as agent rewards (Patch 1215, September 2003)
2) Advanced learning skills added, and they required level 5 of the basic to train (Patch 1755, September 2004)
3) Requirements for advanced learning skills dropped from 5 to 4 (Patch 27912, November 2006)

So, when I started, advanced learning skills and implants weren't even in the game (May 2003), but guess what, after almost 5 years of playing I have enough skills to enjoy some of the more advanced aspects of EVE.

When a new player joins they aren't forced to train cybernetics or the learning skills, its optional. And TBH, five years from now, they all should have more points than I have currently because they have these options from the start.

A new player doesn't really need learning skills, they need to learn the basics, indeed learn the game !

Once they have their skills up to level 4, they should have a pretty good idea if they want to continue playing and then they should train learning skills before working on the longer level 5 skills.

*IF* CCP were to remove learning skills, what would we get to replace it ? All attributes increased by 10 ? You do realise that this would also apply to the older players too don't you ?

What would the older players get to replace the lost SP, all the training time invested (= RL cash) into skills of their choice ? Not a simple SP for SP calculation, but the equivalent SPs for the same time investment.

EVE is all about choice, and you can choose whether or not you want to learn these skills to get that advantage, nobody is forcing anyone to train them.

There is no instant gratification in EVE, and nor should there ever be, not even when learning learning skills.



Umm I would like to point out that there is a major difference between instant gratification and waiting(and Paying!) for five years before I can even begin to touch some of the advanced aspects in eve. Now I love eve and I do enjoy it very much, but the whole skill system was a well thought up way to make them more money, there is no other reason period. Eve would have millions of players if the bar of entry to the advanced portions of the game didn't take years of training to enjoy. That is why they can't keep people, it takes years to get to all the really cool fun stuff. That being said, I've been playing since beta, so I don't wanna hear any well I sucked it up and so should you arguments, they are pointless and only serve to not help the future of this game.



Hmmm... I don't agree AT ALL. The skill tree is Eve's way of "leveling-up". I don't know of too many games(actually I don't know of ANY)in which you can level your toon OFFLINE.

T best aspect of Eve is the fact that someone who has a life can continue to advance while they spend time with things like a job and family.

As far as millions of players...no thanks. I have played MMO's with "millions of players" and if I never hear some punk kid shouting in chat that he can "PWNZOR JOO NOOB" it will be too soon. There is a maturity level(not an age level) that comes with games that take thought and patience. And it is a welcome change from the lag fest/hack party/spawn camped/chinese farming "popular" games that are currently out.

TRYPTIC
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.03.30 13:08:00 - [484]
 

Edited by: TRYPTIC on 30/03/2008 13:09:20
Edited by: TRYPTIC on 30/03/2008 13:08:45
I agree with Nylarthotep. The whole idea of a skill-tree is CCP's attempt to keep players in the game long term. Their idea worked. But they've created a monster.

The skill-tree has become so labyrinthine that all Eve players look with concern (disgust in my case) at every new patch roll-out as new skills, nerfs, buffs are introduced.

I've played this game for 3 years. It was much simpler to progress through the skill tree back then. There are now so many branches to becoming more powerful that just buying the right skills is a pain in the ***. And, once you think you've found the right road to go down skill-wise, a new patch comes out that neuters you.

It's depressing.

Edit: Not my sig anymore.

Shin Ra
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.03.30 13:19:00 - [485]
 

I wouldn't say remove them. Just give all new players max learning skills.

Ambien Torca
Posted - 2008.03.30 13:26:00 - [486]
 

Agreed. Give everyone max learning skills, nobody is going to quit over it even if they are making a ruckus about it in forums. And voila, no more useless timesink for new players.

Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2008.03.30 14:30:00 - [487]
 

Without reading the entire 17-page topic, the only fair way to do this would be to start every character from now on with 5 in all the learning and advanced learning skills, and give everyone currently in the game level 5 and advanced level 5 in those skills...

Any other approach would make all old characters well overpowered... Like you said in the OP, it's the view from a 70mil SP player... Take them out! You've had your 5 years of learning skills to get to 70mil SPs... Without the learning skills, you'd be on less than 60 for sure, probably more like 50mil, and what's 20mil SPs? For a newbie, the first 20mil SPs is everything in the world! Maybe it doesn't mean that much to you and you may even say "Take 20mil SPs away from me, I don't care", but that won't work either.

So if you really want to make it fair, give every character level 5 in all the learning and advanced learning skills, and make every new character start with level 5s in them both. Either that or take them out, and increase all character's attributes by 10. Just taking them out will cause massive arguments and is way more trouble than it's worth.

Though I do agree that the most pointless skill tree is the one you have to do when you start... Especially if you have a friend that's sponsoring you... You'll generally also have to train up Cybernetics 3 and get some +3s in as well.

Thinking about it, if you do abolish the learning skills, the next argument will be on attribute enhancing implants, so maybe we should just leave things the way they are...

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.03.30 15:40:00 - [488]
 

No time to read it all... but truth is you can get ALL your basic learning skills to at least level 4 VERY quickly. Then just train up whatever player skills you want. Advanced learning skills can be trained whenever.

System is fine I think. I'm actually waiting for EXPERT learning skills! Come CCP!

Vinchester
Posted - 2008.03.30 16:04:00 - [489]
 

signed. give every1 max learning skills. i want to make a new trader char, but after thinking about alllll the training ill need to do on learning skills i changed my mind. and this means no 3rd account from me, CCP.


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