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JamnOne
Amarr
Posted - 2008.01.31 17:51:00 - [1]
 

Hi,

Just a quick question -

Is it really possible to have a forum war using EFT?

What I mean is, can you really say a ship is over/under powered because when you do the numbers in EFT it shows it that way?

My opinion is no - it doesn't take into count player's skills (I don't mean skill books) or ability to adjust to one's fighting styles.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.31 17:55:00 - [2]
 

What most "EFT warriors" fail to realize is that:
a) in real combat, enemy NOS/Neuts actually exist
b) optimal and falloff numbers MEAN something for DPS, as well as tracking
c) missiles don't deal full DPS at all times either
d) your enemy does not deal even damage in all damage types

The problem is the regular EFT warrior only cites raw DPS dealt and tanked figures, and not much else.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:00:00 - [3]
 

All EFT can tell you is if your idea of a setup will actually 'fit' onto a given ship. It can give you a guide as to how much damage / tank / cap it will have compared to a different set up on the same ship.

It tells you remarkabley little about how that ship will actually perform vs another in combat.

C.


PredatorPT
Unbound.
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:03:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Cailais
All EFT can tell you is if your idea of a setup will actually 'fit' onto a given ship. It can give you a guide as to how much damage / tank / cap it will have compared to a different set up on the same ship.

It tells you remarkabley little about how that ship will actually perform vs another in combat.

C.




This man speaks the truth.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:21:00 - [5]
 

EFT can tell you a LOT about how your ship will perform, but you have to know what the numbers you're getting actually mean in in-game combat and what is needed to make effective use of them.


A typical example of an EFT warrior would be someone who thinks a Vagabond can do 650 something dps. (Yeah, theoretically it can with high skills, against some targets, but anyone fitting a Vagabond that way is going to die very, very quickly.)

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:26:00 - [6]
 

EFT is great for letting you compare different setups on the same ship. IE, do I get more tank with 2 CPR's and a shild booster or two CFC's and a cap regen? Stuff like that.

It's terrible for comparing different ships. Naturally, this is what most people use it for (Bump all skills to V, throw on all the faction mods they can find, overload them, then complain madly)

Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
EFT is great for letting you compare different setups on the same ship. IE, do I get more tank with 2 CPR's and a shild booster or two CFC's and a cap regen? Stuff like that.

It's terrible for comparing different ships. Naturally, this is what most people use it for (Bump all skills to V, throw on all the faction mods they can find, overload them, then complain madly)


As long as you keep in mind what kind of roll both ships will be put in then you can say reliable which ship is better then the other. 1:1 is a bit more iffy though, because it is very much dependant on how people respond.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:43:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
EFT is great for letting you compare different setups on the same ship. IE, do I get more tank with 2 CPR's and a shild booster or two CFC's and a cap regen? Stuff like that.

It's terrible for comparing different ships. Naturally, this is what most people use it for (Bump all skills to V, throw on all the faction mods they can find, overload them, then complain madly)

Agreed.

EFT is good for comparing the relative effectiveness of different setups on the same ship, or perhaps on very similar ships. Using EFT to claim that one ship is vastly superior to another is useless because EFT does not and cannot take into account any of the hundreds of factors that come into play during actual combat.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Akita T
What most "EFT warriors" fail to realize is that:
a) in real combat, enemy NOS/Neuts actually exist
b) optimal and falloff numbers MEAN something for DPS, as well as tracking
c) missiles don't deal full DPS at all times either
d) your enemy does not deal even damage in all damage types

The problem is the regular EFT warrior only cites raw DPS dealt and tanked figures, and not much else.



Other common EFT-mistakes & misconceptions:

ECMs do not add a single effective hit-point
Officer Modules are not 1M ISK each
Nor are T2 rigs

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:51:00 - [10]
 

I tell from my exprience. I learnt a lot about the game like how to setup a pwnage by looking at some nice dps graphjs prepared by some veterans in the gae. They really do tell a lot on what ships are weak, balanced and imbanalanced.

EFt is just another tool to help to play this game better. Thank god for DPS graphs and EFT. I really wouldn't be able to learn much without them.

DPS graphs and EFT are really sexeh. Smile

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.01.31 18:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I tell from my exprience. I learnt a lot about the game like how to setup a pwnage by looking at some nice dps graphjs prepared by some veterans in the gae. They really do tell a lot on what ships are weak, balanced and imbanalanced.

EFt is just another tool to help to play this game better. Thank god for DPS graphs and EFT. I really wouldn't be able to learn much without them.

DPS graphs and EFT are really sexeh. Smile


You owe me a new sarcasm detector. Mine just burned out.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.31 19:02:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/01/2008 19:01:45
Huh, what do you mean Malcanis?

Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
Posted - 2008.01.31 19:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I tell from my exprience. I learnt a lot about the game like how to setup a pwnage by looking at some nice dps graphjs prepared by some veterans in the gae. They really do tell a lot on what ships are weak, balanced and imbanalanced.

EFt is just another tool to help to play this game better. Thank god for DPS graphs and EFT. I really wouldn't be able to learn much without them.

DPS graphs and EFT are really sexeh. Smile


You owe me a new sarcasm detector. Mine just burned out.



The sarcasm is low in this little one Wink

Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2008.01.31 19:39:00 - [14]
 

I only use EFT to test PG & CPU requirements when designing a setup, sometimes the shield or armor res, and cap consumption if I'm not nosed/neuted.

All the rest depends of to many unknown variables during combat to even think about achieving any kind of decently approximative simulation, be it dps or whatever other aspect.

What I miss is the cap consumption simulator of QuickFit, now that was an handy tool... Crying or Very sad

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2008.01.31 19:46:00 - [15]
 

EFT is a great tool so long as you utilize it's output correctly. So long as the user realizes that there are more subtle attributes that a ship has, that EFT does not take into account, then it is an excellent tool for personal use.

However, using *ONLY* EFT to claim that one ship is better/worse than another is an invalid argument. Of course, this doesn't mean that one should not use EFT when trying to make a claim about a ship. EFT would make a wonderful supplement to in game comparisons between different ships.

Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
Posted - 2008.01.31 20:01:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
it doesn't take into count player's skills


It's up to the player himself to do that. EFT is excellent because it provides all relevant statistics of a ship at a glance. It's a powerful tool that can be misused by those lacking in real combat experience, but in the right hands it's unparalleled.

Dirtee Girl
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2008.01.31 20:10:00 - [17]
 

EFT just gives you what will fit on your ship and also a fair share of what loot the rest of us can expect u to drop becasue you thought EFT was a win button.(go faction!!)Razz


Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.01.31 21:09:00 - [18]
 

EFT warriors can be pretty annoying if they're people who have little or no experience in pvp tbqh.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.01.31 21:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/01/2008 19:01:45
Huh, what do you mean Malcanis?


You're so cute, they should invent a new kind of muffin and name it after you.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.31 21:49:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
You're so cute, they should invent a new kind of muffin and name it after you.

Studmuffin ? YARRRR!!


 

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