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Bahzell McIntyre
Posted - 2008.01.18 05:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bahzell McIntyre on 18/01/2008 05:48:29
Ok, I'm at work and I can't use Quickfit because unauthorized computers are not permitted within the building and none of the comps here have java installed. And I have a question regarding passive resistances, because I'm coming up with rough calculations in my head that total more than 100% resistance.

I'm trying to figure out a Rokh supertank setup essentially. I'm fairly new at EVE, so bear with possible stupidities please. I'm in no hurry to actually fly the ship atm, if it takes a year to get those skils up, so be it. I chose Rokh primarily for the passive resistance bonuses.

Ok, Base shield resistance are EM: 0 Exp: 60 Kinetic: 40 Thermal 20

Ship gets 5% bonus to shield resistance per level, I'm assuming this is across the board and the per level indicates your skill in Caldari battleship. It doesn't really say.

This would mean with level 5 skill EM: 25 Exp: 85 Kinetic: 65 Thermal 45, yes? no?

Now the 85 on explosive damage seems awfully high for someone with no shield skills or gear and it would take very little to boost it to 100% it seems. Is 100% an attainable number? Because we haven't even gotten into the various shield compensation skills applied to active or passive hardeners. Also, there doesn't seem to be a passive "Hardener" in the item database, but there are the Shield Resistance Amps which seem to have that role. Do the Shield Comp skills apply to amps?

I was wondering if it's possible to come up with a build that allows you to break 95% resistance across the board for shield resists. I mean, if level 5 Caldari battleship gives me 85%Exp Resistance, does a single hardener or invuln field make me immune to explosive damage? Is there some stacking calculation involved such as your 25% you gained from Battleship skill is 25% of the 60% native explosive resistance? I know it's a lot of questions, feel free to ignore it and I promise to switch to de-caff any day now...

Here's the skills I'm assuming will apply to my damage type resistances. Let's also assume 2 invuln field 2's. I'm told stacking penalties don't apply until 3+, is this correct? Invuln fiels 2's are 30% each, so that's 60%?

Caldari Battleship 5: 25%

so, my totals are now, EM: 85% Exp: 145% Kinetic: 125% Thermal 105%? That seems and awful easy way to become a God. Add a single passive EM amp and you're unkillable.

I plan to train all Shield comp skills to 5. What are my base resistances in a Rokh, assuming level 5 on all 4 damage types and level 5 Caldari Battleship, for the special abilities mods?

Captain Schmungles
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2008.01.18 05:53:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Captain Schmungles on 18/01/2008 05:55:57
100% is not an attainable resistance, as resistances are calculated thusly:

x%(100-native resistance)+native resistance= resistance with hardeners

So if your native resistance was 80% and you put a t2 hardener (55% bonus) on, your total resistance would be:

55%(100%-85%)+85%= 93.25%

Because of the way this formula works no combination of modules and native resistances can yield 100% resistances to any damage type.

EDIT

And yes, there is a stacking formula. Modules that affect the same attribute get stacking nerfed, so if you have, for example, two invul fields one will give a full resistance bonus and the other's bonus will be nerfed (i.e. still get a bonus but not the full bonus).

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2008.01.18 06:05:00 - [3]
 

Resistances don't add. They subtract from the remaining damage that you'd normally take.

A 50% resist module would resist 50% of the damage that actually damages you. In the case of shields and explosive damage, that base 60% resist means that 40% of the potential gets through. A 50% reduction module would cut that 40% by half, leaving 20% of the destructive force. (80% resist total) A further 50% resist module would boost the total resistance up to 90%. (Not counting stacking penalties)

On ships, resistance modules are also 'stack nerfed', meaning that each additional module boosting the same stat has less and less effect. The second module of a type only gives ~80% of bonus. The third gives even less.

Yes, I know the feeling. Long ago, I once had the bright idea of using 4 Invulnerability Fields (25% to all) on a ship. It don't work.

Bahzell McIntyre
Posted - 2008.01.18 06:30:00 - [4]
 

I think I understand, it's kind of like the old physics example of trying to reach a wall by halving the remaining distance.

Assuming skills are treated like hardeners, would it go like this?

EM: Base 0. so ship skill would be 25%(100-0)+0 = 25% just because there's no native resistance.

Now, I'd like to use a Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 2, passive resistance +37.5%, but I have level 5 EM Shield Comp Skill, which says: To passive shield hardeners: 5% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance. Does this mean that my amp gives me 62.5% EM resistance due to skill or does it give me 25%(100-37.5%)+37.5, or 53.125%? Which would then apply to the formula as 53.125%(100-25%)+25 for a total of 64.84375%? Instead of the 78.125% that seems mine by right.

Is there some priority on the formula? Does ship handling skill applied to base resistance act as the new base for hardeners, which acts as the new base for shield skills? or does it actually make a difference what order the resistance bonuses are applied in?

I'd just like to understand what the hell is happening as I apply different skills and fittings to my tank.

Yargo Metash
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.01.18 06:46:00 - [5]
 

Rokh requires Caldari Battleship 3, so you'll have +15% resist automatically.

Other than that, all the numbers seem to conform to the formula above, just slapping an EM passive amp II in EFT pushes the 25% up to 60.4% with max shield/battleship skills.

Also, the priority for the formula seems to be "Whatever gives the biggest boost goes first." As in, you have an Invul field and a specific hardener, since the specific hardener gives the bigger individual boost, it gets 100% effect, then the invul field unless you have another specific hardener fitted.

Wish I still had my drake to give actualy in game numbers. Rolling Eyes

Pandares
Gallente
hindsight is 20-20
Carebears 'R Us
Posted - 2008.01.18 09:53:00 - [6]
 

just about half-way off topic (seeing as your question has been answered anyway); you can probably use EFT at your office (I do). There's no installation so i'm guessing you could even run it from a flash memory stick, if you'd want.

I personally just burried it a few folders deep so it's not too blatant ;)

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.01.18 10:14:00 - [7]
 

Without using the equations that confuse non rocket scientists the easiest way to understand it is if you add a mod that gives you 50% resist,and your resist is already 50% then your resistance will be 75%...Then another will give you 87.5%...However there are stacking penalties so thats where it usually gets complicated.

Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Posted - 2008.01.18 12:38:00 - [8]
 

BTW, stacking does apply to the second and third modules. The exact formula is p=a^((n-1)^2), where a = roughly 0.87

If you're lazy (like me), you can use this as a guide: 1'st module is scot free, 2'nd is penalized to 87%, 3'rd to 57%, 4'th to 28%, and beyond that it gets ridiculous.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.18 13:40:00 - [9]
 

Clicky numbers in sig to see various interesting info, one of them being what you just asked here.


 

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