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Nemori Sanstari
Posted - 2008.01.17 17:58:00 - [1]
 

Greetings all.

While not necessarily new to Eve, I'm new (ignorant) to other races, thus the post being in the "new citizens" forum.

I've trained Caldari my whole life, but if I was to cross-train into another race, mainly for pvp purposes, what advice would you more experienced players give?

I heard Gallente had good synergy with Caldari, and it makes sense. However, what "pro" arguments are there if you were trying to talk someone into training into Amarr or Minmatar?

(PS I should note that I have little or insignificant racial specific gunnery skills trained, so it'd be basically a fresh start if I were to go lasers or projectile. All of my Caldari ships have been missile boats, and my missile skills are decent, so that is a consideration in cross training)

Etara Silverblade
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:07:00 - [2]
 

I'm Minmatar so I will be trying to convince you to go with that. Minmatar ships have a good level of cross-over from both Caldari and Gallente. They have a few missle slots and use drones which makes them really great for cross training. Since your missle skills are already way up there you have a good start in dealing damage with Minmatar ships and all you need to add is some projectile skills. If you were to go with Amarr or Gallente then I'm not sure that your missle skills would get much use.

Matalino
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:10:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Matalino on 17/01/2008 18:10:17
It really depends on why you want to cross-train another race.

If you are simply looking for a change and want a race that shares commons skills here is what I can suggest:

Galente: uses rails and drones

Amarr: some ships use missiles

Minmatar: some ships are effective shield tankers and tend to mix weapons with missiles and drones.

You might want to concider fleshing out your support skills before actually starting your cross-training. IE get your gunnery or armour tanking skills in place first.

Captain Schmungles
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:16:00 - [4]
 

Cross-train Minmatar. Here's why:

1. Pretty much every Minmatar ship can be made into a viable pvp ship.
2. About 1/3 of the Minmatar ships are shield tanks, so whatever shield tanking skills you have won't be totally wasted. You will need to at least learn how to armor tank so that you can fly some other ships, and a healthy dose of navigation skills is also pretty much required.
3. Most Minmatar ships use missiles as, at least, a supplementary weapon. Your missile skills will not be totally wasted. However, you will need to train gunnery skills, but as a Caldari character you should at least have some skillpoints in Gunnery.

Regardless of what race you choose there will be some re-learning, and you must also accept that you will not be as good in those ships as you are in Caldari ships, at least initially. I switched to Minmatar after a year of Caldari ships. I was going to start training for a Nighthawk, but I was just so sick of missiles that I decided to go learn how to fly another race's ships. I was told Minmatar was the easiest transition, so that's what I did. I had no clue what I was doing initially, and I even got shot down in a level 2 mission because I just didn't know how to armor tank, but I learned and now I enjoy them a lot better.

I would highly suggest learning how to fly Minmatar ships by doing level 1 or level 2 missions, since they're a whole lot more forgiving than pvp.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:45:00 - [5]
 

I too suggest Minmatar. Frankly, anything but Caldari would be an improvement.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:57:00 - [6]
 

Actually, I'd advise you to go Gallente. The ONLY SP lost by training Gallente would be the armor tanking stuff, and even that can be used by Caldari since some Caldari ships work as armor tankers in PVP. All the training you put into turrets and drones will be shared by both Caldari and Gallente.

Would you go Minmatar your turret training would different from Caldari and Turret training takes up most of the time.



Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.01.17 19:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Would you go Minmatar your turret training would different from Caldari and Turret training takes up most of the time.


I was looking at it in a different way: OP should train Minmatar because they are so different. One of the benefits of cross-training is that it forces you to train new skills and tactics. It'll take more time but afterwards you'd have a much better rounded Character.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:01:00 - [8]
 

Not neccesarily, that's just diversity for the sake of diversity. If you want to go PVP both Minmatar and Gallente perform. Going Gallente simply is easier to train for as Caldari has some good turret ships and you'll always need drones.


Minee Ze
Gallente
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:24:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Minee Ze on 17/01/2008 20:36:44
Edited by: Minee Ze on 17/01/2008 20:27:30
OK lets look at the strengths of all races:

______________Amarr______Galente_____Minmitar_____Caldari
Missiles______minimal____minimal_____some_________yes
Hybrids_______no_________yes_________no___________some
Projectiles___no_________no__________yes__________no
Lasers________yes________no__________no___________no

Armor_________yes________yes_________some_________no
Shields_______no_________no__________some_________yes
speed_________no_________some________yes__________no

remember this is a generalization.

if you look at this the galente are closest to the caldari. so for optimizing existing skills you should go galente all you would need to do is make your existing hybrid and turret skills better and train hull upgrades to lvl 5 for active tanks and add armor compensation for passive tanks.

another rout would be to go minnie that would force you to diversify alot yet this will be a longer skill train due to having to train projectiles. i assume you have hybrids to larges at least to use the rokh and ferox if not then you are more free to choose.

also dont forget the amarr for pvp they sniper geddon has some of the best dps of any of the snipers due to not needing to change ammo also the amarr recon ships are extremely nasty.

chears,

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:35:00 - [10]
 

Caldari uses projectiles? o.0

Nice list though, and it restates; easiest to train for is Gallente... it will give you the most overlap in skills.

Wolf Fang
2plus2isfive
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:37:00 - [11]
 

I went from caldari to gallente as I had use hybrid weapons with caldari in the past and since Gallente ships mostly use these weapons it seemed like the sensible choice. however with more people moaning that Amarr ships are now using a mix of missiles/guns it may be a good idea to look more into them. Minmatar is very skill intensive so they would be your longest skill training choice.

The good thing is that your now gonna learn some armor skills so even if you go back to flying caldari ships they will be stronger because you'll have more armor on them now :)

Minee Ze
Gallente
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:37:00 - [12]
 

lol, oops fixed the bug, i blame t20 for giving caldari uber buffs.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.01.18 06:16:00 - [13]
 

The question is just, why does the OP want to cross-train? Do you want an easy expansion to quickly increase your ship repertoire? Gallente. Do you want a vastly different race for rigorous cross-training that will take time but ultimately make you quite formidable? Minmatar. Do you just want to fly sexier ships? Amarr.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.01.18 07:48:00 - [14]
 

As he stated, he wants to PVP.

ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
Posted - 2008.01.18 08:20:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: ZerKar on 18/01/2008 08:21:45
For Matari:

- Some Matari ships use Shield Tanking which may be in line with your skills.

- Matari ships often use missiles as a 2ndary weapon system.

- With Projectiles you can still pick your Damage type as with Missiles.

- Matari ships are FAST, so Fast you will either love it from the start and NEVER fly Caldari's crap boats again or you will be overwhelmed by it and never want to touch the Matari again. However, it can really help in avoiding Damage and they are very useful for PvP for the ability to tackle and choose their fights due to this speed.

- Matari also offer Armor Tanking which is what you really want in PvP anyway and have faster locking times than Caldari by a significant margin.

- Matari Ships offer more drone capacity than Caldari giving you more ability to flex those Drone Muscles.

- Matari Ships generally cost a bit less than others due to having smaller Mineral Requirements.

- Autocannons have IMMENSE ammounts of Ammo stored in the Gun for long peroids of fire vs. reloading.


Against Matari:

- Matari ships are much weaker in their Tanks than Caldari ships so you will have to pick targets more carefuly.

- Matari do not specailize in very useful EWar so you will be a bit left out there.

- Matari Artilleries Lack Rate of Fire and are not as long Ranged as Rails or Missiles.

- Artillery have very few shells loaded into the gun for shorter peroids of fire vs. reloading.


For Gallente:

- Gallente do everything any other race does better in one ship or another save EWar.

- Gallente ships have Massive Drone bays for much use of a variety of deadly little helpers.

- Gallente ships largely Armor tank leaving your Mids open for Ewar and tackling gear which you will want.

- Gallente ships can out Tank & Gank their class competition by notable margins.


Against Gallente:

- Gallente ships are "generally" not that much faster than Caldari which could be a pain.

- Gallente ships do not utilize missiles all that much.

- Gallente ships are generally fairly expensive by comparison.

- Gallente ships and their set-ups are rather well known due to heavy usage.

- Gallente ships generally require the constant feeding of Cap Boosters to keep their Tanks running.

- Gallente ships have a harder time fitting Damage Boosting Modules because of their Armor Tanks but due to natural bonuses and depending on how immense you require your tank to be this may not be an issue.

Considered
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.01.18 13:57:00 - [16]
 

There is no "the best race" type.

Caldari have the advantage in torpedoes, missiles, shield tanking and PVE.

Gallente tend to have the edge in PVP, armor tanking and hybrid turrets

Amarr are armor tankers to and use laser turrets.

Minimatar are like a hybrid race, but tend to speed tank, and use projectile turrets.

Personally, I train Gallente from my Caldari Achura for the attributed I get.

I do have an alt I'm training to fly interceptors and intredictors.

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.01.18 14:10:00 - [17]
 

i'm also a Caldari that also cross trained another race.
i chose Gallente. Hybrid skills work for both races, so do the armor tanking skills (ECM on Caldari ships for example). drones also work for both races, while Gallente is more drone intensive then Caldari, Caldari still make good use of these drones.

i personally don't really enjoy missiles, i tend to go for guns rather then missiles. you can really see that in my skills, i've 8.2mil sp in gunnery and 2.5mil sp in missiles. all those gunnery skills were trained after the switch to Gallente, and both my Eagle and Rokh pwn now.

i'd really go for Gallente, speed is still somewhat overpowered, so i bet there is gonna be a swing with the nerfbat again. Gallente can go for both nano setups and pure tank setups. while Minmatar generally only goes for just nano setups (due to slot layout, most minmatar ships aren't made for taking dps, also look at their hulls, those don't look that sturdy).

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.01.18 14:24:00 - [18]
 

Meh, minmatar are easiest to cross train from caldari, seeing as most of their ships use missiles to some extent and many are sheild tankers. For gunnery its only the actual projectile turret skills u need to train, maining u can have t1 up to bs level very fast, and go onto t2 from there. In my experience minmatar is the best race for pvp. Gallente only cross train well in terms of gunnery, few of their ships use missiles to any extent and none sheild tank. Also if u r caldari u probably didnt focus too hard on drones either. For amarr the addition of khanid missiles boats means that having hi missiles sp isnt a waste any more, especially if u have trained rockets/hams to any degree. On the other hand all amarr ships are very definately armour tankers.

Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Eclats de verre
Posted - 2008.01.18 16:03:00 - [19]
 

I know people who make good shield tanks on gallente ships... Maybe they are mad, but they are usually called successfull.

And there's a reason for this :

Take an hyperion, forget the repair bonus.
Fit a scrambler, a web (or let you gang mates web and scramble), a mwd, a big shield booster and an invulnerability field.
In lows, fit 3 magstabs, some speed mods and some power diags for general improvement (you choose wht you prefer...).
Then, you have a blasterboat which hits damn hard, tanks as bad as a hard hitting blasterboat but is faster.

So, this may work, just some cap issues, but fights should be short.

The same guy told me the dominix is as flexible and proved it... agin with a high damage fit that was performing well with an under average shield tank that totally surprises the ennemies.

Well, different things can be done with gallente ships because they have sometimes enough med slots!

Now, cross training for gallente if you have hybrid skills could be a good option.
Minmatar have some real shield tankers that could work in pvp well too and use your missile skills.
Amarr, I don't know what to say, erm... I'm not sure it's the easy way even they have some good ships for pvp.

Corporate Pawn
AWDAMA
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:21:00 - [20]
 

wow not to kill everyone's helpful bubble but i think repeating what they had already said at the top of the thread at the bottom is rather useless.


 

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