open All Channels
seplocked EVE New Citizens Q&A
blankseplocked Please c&c my Cormorant build
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:00:00 - [1]
 

I'm a bit of a noob at all this so looking for a bit of assistance. I found a thread on Cormorant builds but everyone has their own preferences and there was no "oh that's uber" build. All I want to do is PvE some Rats and mine the ass out of the Haatomo / Ikoa area at present, until I get enough dough to get a cruiser.

This is what I came up with for the Cormy:

High Slots
2x 125mm Carbide Railguns
2x 125 mm Compressed Coil Gun
2 x Dual Pulse Mining Lasers
1 x Salvager I
1x Std Missile Launcher (or maybe Limos Rocket Launcher)

Mid Slots
1 x Ore Scanner
1x Medium Shield Extender I
1x Small Shield Booster I

Low Slot
1x Power Diagnostic System I (Iíd really like to use an Extended Cargo but I donít know whether I can do without the PDS)

The reason the guns are different is purely because I have them already but hope it doesnít make too much difference. I can buy others if it does.

Whatís the best ammo for the guns/launcher to take out the Rats fast? Kinetic dmg isnít it?
Is a rocket launcher better than a missile launcher?
Will 4 guns and a Launcher be okay to keep me healthy as all the builds I saw used 7 guns, which I really donít want to go with. I could possibly drop one of the Mining Lasers I guess but only if absolutely necessary.

Thanks for any help Smile

Sandeep
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:10:00 - [2]
 

You don't need a survey scanner because your cycle time is not long enough to need one.

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:19:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Xennith on 17/01/2008 10:25:25
Ok, you already know that you dont want to mix weapon sizes if you can avoid it, so upgrade your guns as and when you can afford it, but if you want to mine you may well be better off in a bantam as they get bonuses to mining lasers.

try to have a clear purpose for each ship design, its not so important now but as you progress you'll be wanting to say "this ship is for mining, and that ship is for pve". mixing guns and miners means that yes, its a ship that can do either, but cant do either very well. however, for your purposes it should be fine, as you're just going to be wandering around in belts trying your hand at mining/salvaging.

i think what i would do is fit the destroyer out as follows:

7 * 125mm Railgun 1,
1 * Salvager

Small shield booster 1,
2 * Invul field 1, (or rat specific hardners)
- Spare mid / After burner if you can fit it.

Micro aux power core if needed.

Its cheap and should be able to rat quite happily in highsec, hopefully netting you enough cash to get your cruiser.


Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:26:00 - [4]
 

I'd toss out the mining lasers and focus strictly on ratting and salvaging. Mining isn't really that profitable unless you go all out on it. And for all out mining you are better off in a Bantam than a Cormorant.

Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:35:00 - [5]
 

@ Sandeep: I dont understand why I dont need a scanner mate. Its so I can see where the asteroids are with the best ore rather than the lower return ore.

@ Xennith: Actually I didnt know it was bad to mix weapon sizes, but also they are the same size (125mm)

@ Shanur: Hmmm thats two of you with that view. I would seriously consider it but the Rats arent really that frequent around there. You'll maybe see a group of 2-3 in every third or fourth mining trip. At say 35K ISK a load (with the extra cargo hold)thats over 105K ISK as opposed to an unknown Rat return.

However if I run the Bantam instead its painful to have to run and hide when rats do eventually turn up and not be able to salvage.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:38:00 - [6]
 

get a second cheap batam for mining.

now fit another gun and a slavager.

slavage is like mining but wrecks :)

don't forget even if it's not your wreck and you can't loot it without getting killed you can salvage anything no matter who owns it!

Also the ship gets bonuses to guns right?
lose the missle and put another gun there too :)


also your two types of guns are the same size right?
there is nothing wrong with mixing named guns :)

hell sometimes I just fit whatever I can find :)

Sandeep
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:41:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks
@ Sandeep: I dont understand why I dont need a scanner mate. Its so I can see where the asteroids are with the best ore rather than the lower return ore.

Because you can see the asteroids on the overview. Survey scanner is for attentive exhumer pilots to predict the exact time needed to pop a roid, so they can turn off the strip miners to reduce wasted cycle time.

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks

@ Xennith: Actually I didnt know it was bad to mix weapon sizes, but also they are the same size (125mm)


yeah, you want your guns to have the same range really, that way you maximise damage output if you can stay at that range, the carbide and compressed coil have differing optimal ranges (only about 1k, so its slight). its not that important, and saving cash by using what you already have might appeal to you more than neatness :)

ill knock you up a bantam fitting for mining if you want.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Jester Banks
@ Sandeep: I dont understand why I dont need a scanner mate. Its so I can see where the asteroids are with the best ore rather than the lower return ore.

Because you can see the asteroids on the overview. Survey scanner is for attentive exhumer pilots to predict the exact time needed to pop a roid, so they can turn off the strip miners to reduce wasted cycle time.



add asteroids to your overview :)
and bam that's all you need.

the scanner is to see how many are left.


Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.17 10:49:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks
@ Sandeep: I dont understand why I dont need a scanner mate. Its so I can see where the asteroids are with the best ore rather than the lower return ore.
Hmm. You mean you use the survey scanner to find the roids that aren't plain Veldspar? I think you better play around a bit with your overview filters mate. Start by right clicking on the arrow in the top left of your overview and selecting "Load default mining", and then go to "Overview settings" to tweak this to your liking. Without some well set up overview filtering defaults this game is going to become a royal headache to you quickly. And you'll see that there are much easier ways to find the Kernite among the Veldspar than flying around pinging a 15Km survey scanner several times Very Happy

@ Xennith: Actually I didnt know it was bad to mix weapon sizes, but also they are the same size (125mm)
Actually it isn't so much the size as the difference in optimal ranges. Each weapon has a range at which it will work the best. Go over it and it receives a negative accuracy modifier, go under it and it will start to have trouble tracking your target unless it heads straight for you or remains stock still (most rats will actually circle around you like crazy if given the chance). By having all your weapons use the same optimal range, you can use all of them to their fullest effect, rather than have some fully effective and some partially effective.

@ Shanur: Hmmm thats two of you with that view. I would seriously consider it but the Rats arent really that frequent around there. You'll maybe see a group of 2-3 in every third or fourth mining trip. At say 35K ISK a load (with the extra cargo hold)thats over 105K ISK as opposed to an unknown Rat return.
Try warping between belts instead of waiting the rats out. Jump to some adjacent systems too. If you find the rats rather than let them find you (make sure to stay between 0.8 and 0.5 security), you'll reap a lot more in rat bounty alone than the value will be of the ore you could rake in in that same timespan.

However if I run the Bantam instead its painful to have to run and hide when rats do eventually turn up and not be able to salvage.
True. Mining and salvaging don't go well together actually, which is why you'll come across hulks surrounded by the wreckage of rats shot down by their drones. It is possible to fit a Bantam so it can tank high sec rats however, and higher end mining ships come with drones that can do the shooting without costing you precious high slots.


As a beginner, mining may be low treshold, but ratting and missioning yield better rewards. Especially in high sec. To make mining really profitable requires a pretty steep investment in skills to fly a mining barge and refine with minimal wastage. Otherwise you are generally better off just blowing stuff up and raking in the bounties and salvage.

Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 11:36:00 - [11]
 

Christ theres so much good information I just havent a clue about lol. Almost all of this above is unknown to me, from changing settings to gun stats.

I'm particularly interested about the "you can salvage wrecks even if theyre not yours" bit.

To salvage a wreck it has to be empty first right? So I can only salvage the ones with the empty "uppy-downy triangle". But you're saying I can salvage yellow empty "uppy-downy triangles"? I didnt know that lol (and a lot of swearing at the amount of yellow wrecks I've flown past).

Okay I bow to your mass wisdom and tonight will kit out my Cormy with 7 x guns all the same and try the salvaging/jumping trick. I've got about 3.5 million ISK to play with. Looking forward to kicking some ass lol.

Berkam
Caldari
Missions Manufacturing Mining Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 11:55:00 - [12]
 

A wreck doesn't need to empty to salvage as it will drop a can with any loot, should you salvage a wreck with loot in, if the wreck is not yours, if you take you will be flagged as an agressor to whomever created the wreck.

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2008.01.17 11:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks

To salvage a wreck it has to be empty first right? So I can only salvage the ones with the empty "uppy-downy triangle". But you're saying I can salvage yellow empty "uppy-downy triangles"?


that used to be true, but its been changed now so that if you salvage a wreck with loot in it, the loot gets ejected in a can. stealing from the can will still allow the owner to blow you up, but looting the wreck will not.

as long as you dont take anything from cans, you can salvage any ship without worrying about becoming attackable, it can be great cash for a newbie, but try it in minmatar space because the angels drop better salvage than the gueristas.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:25:00 - [14]
 

you may slavage wrecks with loot in them :)
as long as your don't take the loot :)

be careful in low sec sometimes pirates leave wrecks as bait.


Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:33:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Shanur on 17/01/2008 12:36:21
If you are mainly after salvage, seriously consider running missions. The bounty on mission rats is lower than on belt rats, but their salvage drops are identical and you'll run into many more ships in mission pockets than in asteroid belts=much more salvage. For maximum effectiveness, run missions in Minmatar(Angel cartel), Amatar(Sansha's nation) or Amarr(Blood raiders) space. The primary rats of these areas (which will affect the opponents of the mission) have the best chance of yielding alloyed tritanium bars.

And don't worry about difficulty. Level 1 missions are designed for a modestly equiped combat frigate (Kestrel/Merlin). Destroyers, while unsuited for level 2 make mincemeat out of level 1 mission rats and are great for clearing out missions pockets where you are not really supposed to clear out the rats (like WC).

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Shanur on 17/01/2008 12:36:42
Ugh! Replied instead of updated. Ignore.

Vordakr
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:15:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Vordakr on 17/01/2008 13:22:22



Having a common Gun size isn't that important early on. The fact that you don't have to spend more money on guns is.

Also - keeping all your weapons the same size is highly over blown as a tactic - especially against Rats.

What you want to be able to do against low level Rats is to kite them along by using your afterburner while you kill them with your long range guns as they come up.

For this - however many 150mm's you can fit will be more effective than just putting all 125's on there to fit a theory. Same goes with that missile.

Your real problem with weapons fitting - is your power grid. Usually - you don't happen to have enough power to fit a full suite of guns of the same size - unless they are all small guns. Giving up the power and range of larger guns just so you can have them all the same - is foolish.

As to taking off the missile launcher just so you can have all 8 guns ... you have 8 high slots - 7 turret and 1 missile - this means you cannot take off the missile launcher and put a turret there. The most weapons this ship can carry is 7 guns and 1 missile because of the hard point restrictions. Now ... what else you might be able to put there besides a missile ... I'm not so sure. Tractor Beams and Salvager's may or may not fit in that missile slot.

I can't seem to log in right now ... so I can't check.

Yes - it is probably best to go ahead and buy a ship for mining and use it for that. Here's the thing. Cargo hold size is the thing that matters most - if you are solo mining and don't want to jet can. You can fit really good Lasers, have Mining trained up to level 4 or 5 and - the number of times you have to stop and haul your ore back is going to mean more than any of that.

So - look for a ship with a lot of low power slots you can put Expanded Cargo Holds into. Do not use the Civilian Expanded Cargo holds. The Expanded Cargo Hold II's are what I like best but they aren't cheap.

It is because it has only 1 low slot that the Cormorant is a crummy miner - though the mining ship bonus helps them - the mining frigates cargo hold sizes are more important.

Now - if you can jet can mine all that changes (some) - you'll need an Industrial to haul it away in though. If you are mining into a jet can IT provides you with 27,000m3 of space ... against which the cargo hold of any frigate is irrelevant. Then you could put 7 miners on your destroyer and keep dumping the ore into that jet can.

The problem with jet can mining - is that if you don't have a buddy or alt sitting right there in his industrial to grab the ore out of the jet can (leave a book mark in it to keep it open) then you are vulnerable to ore thieves.

What I've done is to take my beginning characters and get them first a Level II Miner - then a Level III Combat Frigate. Then a Destroyer. Then an Industrial.
Eventually, if mining is going to be a big part of their career - I get them into a mining barge. I also have more than one account so I can have two guys team up - one mining the other hauling.

As to the advice about making more money on missions than mining - that was not true for me - but then I had an alt I could team mine with ...

My suggestion would be to do both - because doing just one of them all the time becomes boring.

Believe me - once you've got your ship fitted out right - to borrow a phrase ... you are "farming" no matter what you do. You are farming ore or you are farming rats - but farming is what you're at and farming rats can become just as boring as farming ore.

Lastly ... what you had was not a bad setup for a general purpose ship. The thing is ... specialization helps. If you only have one ship - then - that's not so bad.




Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:08:00 - [18]
 

Well I feel I have mined a heck of a lot since starting the game a couple of weeks ago and having the Cormy is the first time Ive actually felt like I can releive a bit of agression on some Rats. I kind of like the idea of hunting them down like....erm...Rats.

Im not even going to ask what Trillium bars are lol.

I'm pretty sure I tried to put a gun on the missile slot once and it wouldnt allow it, so I dont expect Salvage 1 to fit but will try. Also Im not trained on Medium guns or tractor beams and cant canister yet but I hope to change both those situations soon.

Once again thanks for all the suggestions. I'm copying & pasting all the answers into a doc so I can take it home to refer to later when I do my build tonight (at work atm with 3hrs to go..yawn!).

So whats the best ammo for these guns to get rid of the filthy scum?

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:16:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks

Im not even going to ask what Trillium bars are lol.



tritanium bars. all you need to know right now is that they are payday ;) its a salvage drop and 4 of them is worth about as much as your entire ship (fitted).

Quote:
I'm pretty sure I tried to put a gun on the missile slot once and it wouldnt allow it, so I dont expect Salvage 1 to fit but will try.


oh ye of little faith. :) it'll fit.

Quote:
cant canister yet


right click something in your cargo hold (1 ammo is good) and click "jettison"


Stela'Artois
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:25:00 - [20]
 

You got some really good advice above, and some that is so so...so here is my condensed .2isk answer.

Choose one path, and dedicate to that as far as your money making goes for now. If that is the #1 thing on your agenda.

If you choose to rat I recommend this:

Fit your destroyer with 6 guns(of the same size), 2 salvagers. In the mids put an afterburner, a shield booster, a shield extender/hardener to taste (see the setups page for advice). Head to a .5-.7 system and start jumping to each of the asteroid belts. Kill all you see, salvage the wrecks...when you are full, head back to dock...you will soon learn what sells well, and what is a waste of cargo space.

Alternatively, you can look up a level 1 agent, and start doing missions for him. Over time, you will gain access to a level 2 agent, and the isk/hour ratio will go up. As was said, mission rats have a lower bounty, but they are guaranteed to be where you warp to...and the salvage/loot is the same.

If you want to be a miner: Check out some of the mining guides found in these forums. Go specifically for ships with bonuses to mining....i.e. Bantam and then the osprey. The osprey is a solid mining ship that can be fitted to defend itself well against hi-sec rats.

Either way, if you need some help/advice/financial assistance, look me up in the game, or eve-mail me and I will help you out as soon as I can.

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:36:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Jester Banks

Im not even going to ask what Trillium bars are lol.



tritanium bars. all you need to know right now is that they are payday ;) its a salvage drop and 4 of them is worth about as much as your entire ship (fitted).




This.

I mentioned it as the OP mentioned a high emphasis on raising money for the next ship. Just a few of these babies can easily finance a sweet Caracal build that will see you trough to Level 2 missions. Sadly though, the salvage resulting from Guristas rats is very poor (Armor plates as the most valuable salvage, but also a lot of stuff that sells for nothing more than chickenfeed), so you'll need to leave the comfort (if you can call the area of Jita comfortable) of Caldari space and hunt in another empire. Amarr are allied with Caldari so hunting there won't make you enemies with your own people, and both Blood raiders and Sanshas have good salvage, including the Alloyed trit bars that everyone associates with the salvage jackpot.

Vordakr
Posted - 2008.01.17 15:04:00 - [22]
 

Melted Capacitor Consoles are pretty good too. 400k ea. or so.


Oh ... and don't worry about having to wait until you get home ... the game login is borked for a lot of people ... (they're working on it) so you may not be missing anything.


Dommie Jax
Caldari
Phoenixfire Industries
Socius Inter Nos
Posted - 2008.01.17 15:36:00 - [23]
 

Ah i remember the time i got my first Trit Bar, i couldnt believe how much they were worth, then i got another salvage (had a blue background instead of red) and sold them both, that paid for my caracel and the fittings for it

The good thing is even after you leave your destroyer and move up to cruisers you will still find your self using a destroyer as a salvage boat

Someone in my Corp skipped destroyers and went to cruisers, i decided to spend 2 mill ISK and fitted him out with a ready to Cormorant Salvager, he was sooo happy

But to be honest i think the guys above me have given you loads of advice on how best to fit you destroyer out,
Happy hunting out there

Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 16:10:00 - [24]
 

I think Amarr space is only a short hop for me from Citadel to Domain so thats sweet Cool

Ive got a bit of cash floating about from extensive (for me anyway) mining so I'm going to get the best 125mm guns I can find and load up for bear.

Hope the log in issue is resolved for tonight.

Matalino
Posted - 2008.01.17 16:35:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks
I think Amarr space is only a short hop for me from Citadel to Domain so thats sweet Cool

Ive got a bit of cash floating about from extensive (for me anyway) mining so I'm going to get the best 125mm guns I can find and load up for bear.

Hope the log in issue is resolved for tonight.
A quick warning, the rats in Amarr space deal a lot of EM damage that will rip up your shields more than the rats in Caldari space. You might want to switch to EM specific hardeners if you head over to there.

Even so, a destroyer should be overkill for the belt rats in hi-sec space anywhere, so you should be fine.

Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.18 08:20:00 - [26]
 

I just wanted to say that last night I tried to kit out my ship "properly". I plundered the Corp hanger and ended up with 6 x 125mm guns of 3 different types and 1 x 150mm (or was it 250mm?) gun.

I went out asteroid field jumping in 0.6 space and made roughly 1 million ISK over about 3.5 hours. Amazing!

The punishment these guns deal out is fantastic.

Unfortunately, yesterday some other Alliance declared war against ours so I cannot say any more atm. Also I think I'll have to tone down the flying on my main for a bit and create an alt character. Annoying as hell lol.

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.01.18 09:16:00 - [27]
 

Just get yourself a merlin with a cheap blaster fitting on it (with scrambler and web), have your corpmates do the same and see if you can make the corp war deccing you decide that maybe they should try a pure industrial corp next time. Hunting in packs can be fun and is in fact a very good way to deal with wars when the attacking corp expects you to be a bunch of cattle huddling afraid in the station ripe for the slaughter.

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2008.01.18 09:24:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jester Banks

Unfortunately, yesterday some other Alliance declared war against ours so I cannot say any more atm. Also I think I'll have to tone down the flying on my main for a bit and create an alt character. Annoying as hell lol.


Wasnt us was it? :) if it wasnt, then just make sure that you fly in packs, keep an eye on local and give as good as you get.

if it was us, then please continue to fly around solo, ignore local and dont align out when ratting ;)


Jester Banks
ISK Inc
Posted - 2008.01.18 09:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Xennith
Wasnt us was it? :) if it wasnt, then just make sure that you fly in packs, keep an eye on local and give as good as you get.

if it was us, then please continue to fly around solo, ignore local and dont align out when ratting ;)[/quote



lol well I dont know who it is. Its all new to me and I even had to look up what it all meant. Alliance chat last night was all about tactics and reports on info gathering etc. Seems like the other corp or someone who knows them have been a bit "helpful" to us so I gather we're pretty well prepared.

A couple have decided to hide but even the newbies like me have seen it as an opportunity to experience PvP, but not at the sake of losing a main and decent ship. Fortunately we can build Merlins, etc very easy, and getting an alt for me up to that std can only take a few hours at most.

Oh and we're travelling in groups, plus I've decided its probably best to dock in another systems station from our HQ. I might be cannon fodder but Im gonna go down expensive for you, or whoever it is. Bring it ooooon!! Twisted Evil

Adrianna Ravenwood
Posted - 2008.01.18 10:31:00 - [30]
 

Yeah basing yourself out of some where other than the corp. HQ is something I thought of but don't know how well that should work.

This sounds like a good opportunity to fly around with some of your more experienced mates and learn a thing or two.

GL



Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only