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Beth Heke
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:40:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy


Wow, you're actually going on kb figures.

Did you happen to notice that the rigs had 0 isk value on the kb? Or that t2 ogres were listed as 300k?

Not to mention kb values dont take into account insurance, and are notoriously inaccurate, for a while all the kbs had t2 ammo listed as costing billions/round.Rolling Eyes


The value of the rigs on the Drake were more than the Ishtar's.

Compare the prices on the market.




Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:54:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy

That ishtar probably costed 160m or so to replace, the drake costed maybe 20m at the very most.


Actually, Drake probably did have a loss cost 70-80M, three field purger rigs (don't know their exact price atm really). Not a good fit otherwise, though, and T1 missile launchers for the lol. Without the silly rigs it would've costed a very low 25M to replace (insurance - defacto loss cost of drake hull is about 10M, and it didn't have more then 15M of gear on) at most considering it was fitting.

The Ishtar? Probably about 140M or something. I don't know the price of Ishtars on the market at the moment, but I assume it's about a 100M+ - the rigs for it are 20ish M, the stuff fitted is a bit over 20M, and drones easily another 10M or more. This is all looking at the actual kills.

So, anyway, the Ishtar must've had a loss cost of a very noticeable 130M after insurance, assuming the guy paid premium insurance on a nano-hac Very Happy

I'm running numbers w/out EvE at this machine, so.

Originally by: Beth Heke
From the set-ups of the ships involved, it looks like the Drake and Megathron were ratting in 0.0 then quickly refitted to kill the pirates.



Quickly and wrongly refit to 'kill the pirates' does not really work well. I'd have killed both of you in two Hurricanes (with a similarly fit gangmate), having a loss cost of 62M together (Yes, I've been able to drive the Hurricane loss cost to 31M by smart shopping and module selection).


Originally by: Beth Heke

Even with Precision Heavies, the Drake wouldn't have been able to kill the Curse and at the very best may have been able to force it to flee.


Well, killing a Ishtar and running off his Curse friend would be a pure win (hey, Ishtar probably dropped 20M in loot), and, yes, you could probably do it given that (non-pimped) Curses don't go *that* fast.

You can't kill all the ships you encounter, and yes, you are required to have T2 guns to survive some encounters. Think about how a T1-gun Hurricane fares versus a Vagabond; it dies. On the other hand, a T2-gun Hurricane (or Cyclone, even cheaper) versus your standard T2 Vaga will just shrug it off.

Antic
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:17:00 - [123]
 

Yes speed is fun. But it is fun because you have a credible advantage over others and you can pretty much dictate the battle. If speed is nerfed and something else comes up as the flavour of the month then that thing will become the new "fun" :P

So thats no argument.

Beth Heke
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:25:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko


Without the silly rigs it would've costed a very low 25M to replace (insurance - defacto loss cost of drake hull is about 10M, and it didn't have more then 15M of gear on) at most considering it was fitting.


Drakes need Shield Purgers in order to be able to tank anything worth a damn.

3 x Purgers at 15m each.

Originally by: Cpt Branko
The Ishtar? Probably about 140M or something. I don't know the price of Ishtars on the market at the moment, but I assume it's about a 100M+ - the rigs for it are 20ish M, the stuff fitted is a bit over 20M, and drones easily another 10M or more.


So fairly close to 130m.

The Drake pilot would get a mammoth 19m back on his 80m investment.






Originally by: Cpt Branko

You can't kill all the ships you encounter, and yes, you are required to have T2 guns to survive some encounters. Think about how a T1-gun Hurricane fares versus a Vagabond; it dies. On the other hand, a T2-gun Hurricane (or Cyclone, even cheaper) versus your standard T2 Vaga will just shrug it off.



The problem is that they can't hit the Curse to begin with, which is the whole point of this thread!

The original poster was very diplomatic regarding the Ishtar pilot, but (and let's be brutally honest here) the guy must have been completely insane to slow down, enter the Drake's wb/scram range and try to stand toe-to-toe with it.

If the Ishtar had abused it's massive speed advantage, it would have been 2-0 to the nano-nubs.

Captain Batou
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:37:00 - [125]
 

ShockedMan, you guys whine alot.

Look, it's like whats-his-nuts said, it's just the flavor of the month. Develop strategies to counter the advantages of your adversaries. It's a gaaaame.Solving problems is part of the fun. Whining to devs to make changes cuz you (boo frickin hoo hoo) don't think it's fair, is lame.
Go play chutes and ladders or WoW. Quit messin with my favorite game or I'll pull this car right over. I mean it. I'll come striaght back to empire and start ganking all the whiners in my super-nano'd-nuettastic-gloryholed-boat-of-doom. Rolling Eyes

L70Rogue
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:50:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Beth Heke
Originally by: Cpt Branko


Without the silly rigs it would've costed a very low 25M to replace (insurance - defacto loss cost of drake hull is about 10M, and it didn't have more then 15M of gear on) at most considering it was fitting.


Drakes need Shield Purgers in order to be able to tank anything worth a damn.

3 x Purgers at 15m each.

Originally by: Cpt Branko
The Ishtar? Probably about 140M or something. I don't know the price of Ishtars on the market at the moment, but I assume it's about a 100M+ - the rigs for it are 20ish M, the stuff fitted is a bit over 20M, and drones easily another 10M or more.


So fairly close to 130m.

The Drake pilot would get a mammoth 19m back on his 80m investment.






Originally by: Cpt Branko

You can't kill all the ships you encounter, and yes, you are required to have T2 guns to survive some encounters. Think about how a T1-gun Hurricane fares versus a Vagabond; it dies. On the other hand, a T2-gun Hurricane (or Cyclone, even cheaper) versus your standard T2 Vaga will just shrug it off.



The problem is that they can't hit the Curse to begin with, which is the whole point of this thread!

The original poster was very diplomatic regarding the Ishtar pilot, but (and let's be brutally honest here) the guy must have been completely insane to slow down, enter the Drake's wb/scram range and try to stand toe-to-toe with it.

If the Ishtar had abused it's massive speed advantage, it would have been 2-0 to the nano-nubs.


This

Thorexion Lynch
Gallente
Pwn 'N Play
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:11:00 - [127]
 

blah blah blah....do you whine about everything you cant kill or are there just a lucky few?

Monologue
Fishing for Compliments
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:14:00 - [128]
 

I don't bother not hitting a nano-ship with "conventional" weapons. Especially if the pilot has faction gear and maybe Snakes. But I think when there is something like Snake implants which give some ships such a high velocity that they can't be hit by anything, there should also be a corresponding implant set which somehow counters this.

Each ship, how expensive it might have been, should have a counter (which is not the same ship!). If that counter is equally expensive, I can live with it.

There are deadspace MWDs and there are faction Webbers (both comparable in price). One could argue if the latter really is a counter to the first, but at least it's a try :). Why does this not apply to implants?

Another thing: If you buy something really expensive which makes you invulnerable (and you thus don't lose it), it practically costs you nothing. On the other hand, if I buy a Minmatar Recon to help my gang to get those nano ships, I will be primary all the time and explode real quick (you can only web three or so ship with it). As a consequence, a counter which is not as invincible as the ship it counters normally is should probably not be so expensive as that said ship.

Ahh nevermind... just remote rep your Minnie Recons pilots and be nice to them :).

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:21:00 - [129]
 

Cynabal 4xdual180mm 2 falloff rigs. Done nanohacs will have serious problems against it and its not that much more expensive than a nanohac. Cheaper than a nanohac with any snake stuff.

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.01.17 14:42:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Squatdog
why not head over to the gate and jump through, or even better hope they come close to web or bump you.

I'm guessing this is a troll...

The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.

Why, sure they would let themselves get into webbing range to bump me off the gate when I'm already jammed! Thanks for playing!

That is if you fitted a mwd and web. If you didn't its a pve fit and this thread is pointless, and should be changed to blah blah blah...

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?




playing EVE isn't really your strong point is it? No, it's not a troll. Yes, you can jump through a gate even though you're warpscrambled. Learn to play the game before you come on the forums and whine. To me it sounds like you got killed due to fighting more experienced players (actually thats doubtful considering you managed to kill 1 ishtar pilot).

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.17 15:41:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/01/2008 15:42:55
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Cynabal 4xdual180mm 2 falloff rigs. Done nanohacs will have serious problems against it and its not that much more expensive than a nanohac. Cheaper than a nanohac with any snake stuff.



I setup mine differently, but yes, it is preety nice for catching nano pilots who try to get close to actually do any damage. Also, just one falloff rig, still debating what else to fit in rigslots Very Happy

Anyway, people with BCs with expensive rigs, T1 guns, lousiest named webs and afterburners fail and shouldn't be allowed to whine in the forums really.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.01.17 17:21:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/01/2008 15:42:55
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Cynabal 4xdual180mm 2 falloff rigs. Done nanohacs will have serious problems against it and its not that much more expensive than a nanohac. Cheaper than a nanohac with any snake stuff.



I setup mine differently, but yes, it is preety nice for catching nano pilots who try to get close to actually do any damage. Also, just one falloff rig, still debating what else to fit in rigslots Very Happy
2 tracking rigs?Laughing

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.17 17:29:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
2 tracking rigs?Laughing


Might be nice for interceptor ganking, actually... ;)

Although with the bonus to tracking it gets (which is preety awesome), 1x tracking and 1x falloff would probably give me better performance.

Captain Schmungles
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:02:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus

No, you're missing the point. The thing that people complain about, is that in order to 'deal' with a nanoship/gang, you NEED to counter fit. It's not about what tactics work, and what don't. It's about the opportunity cost of _having_ to do so.

Most ships and setups, sure, if someone's got a well co-ordinated gang/tactic going, they have an advantage. That's entirely fine. But having a situation where _either_ you have a counter fit to this particular tactic, or you JUST DON'T ENGAGE because you're guaranteed to lose, is, and remains the problem.



So, basically you want everyone to change so that you don't have to? Riiiight. People fly nano ships in pvp because they work. If you are out looking for pvp you need to be prepared for nano ships, and so you will need to fit accordingly.

The whole world is not going to change just because you claim it's "not fair."

Madla Mafia
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:08:00 - [135]
 

Curse is not a HAC...

Ione Hunt
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:24:00 - [136]
 

This thread is kinda stupid...

There are counters to speed! Will you beat a speed setup PVP ship in your ratting Raven or Drake? Not unless the speed ship pilot's a moron. Should you beat him just because your ship's bigger? No!

Eve is a game of variety. There's no setup that can beat all or is a jack of all trades (except for the good old NOS domi...but it got nerfed). The Vaga is a behind enemy lines ship, it lives for 1on1s. Facing a smaller gang it sucks. And even in 1on1s you often have to warp away because you can't break any really good tanks. Neuts will screw you, webs will screw you, webbing drones (!!!) will screw you, a clever pilot will screw you...

Same goes for other ships. An Ishtar sounds nice on paper, but once your enemy shoots your drones it's run or die unless he's got a really weak tank.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:29:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Ione Hunt

Same goes for other ships. An Ishtar sounds nice on paper, but once your enemy shoots your drones it's run or die unless he's got a really weak tank.


I've cost a particular Ishtar pilot over a hundred mil in drones alone during just a few encounters. Of course, I took a preference for shooting his T2 drones... Laughing

-Liang

Flashmurder
Gallente
Deadly Addiction
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:39:00 - [138]
 

Take a dual webbing huggy with you. Problem solved.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:43:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Flashmurder
Take a dual webbing huggy with you. Problem solved.


Dude, I've suggested probably 30-40 completely valid and working counters that anyone can do or fit in this thread. This thread's no longer about viable counters or how to deal with nano ships.

This thread has turned into a whine fest on why they don't want to actually *DO* anything. You know, they just want the nano ship to warp into the belt (with them and their officer spawn) and simply explode.

The OP was so mind numbingly uneducated that I thought I'd got ahold of some Novocaine. Then this thread persists (though his question was answered quite thoroughly) because people insist on whining for no valid reason.

-Liang

Flashmurder
Gallente
Deadly Addiction
Posted - 2008.01.17 18:48:00 - [140]
 

Fair enough, I didn't really read it since I'm only on here because I have 30j to do right now. NanoHACs aren't imba'd and they don't need nerfing, my personal fave fix is bringing a friend with a huggy, my blasters hurt them alot moar when they're doing 10m/s.

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2008.01.17 19:19:00 - [141]
 

Whiners, this is what you do:

1: Buy and fit a faction web
2: When encountering nanoship, overheat web, approach with mwd and shoost
3: Scoop loot

Seriously, it's not that hard. Pilots who fly nanoships shell out hundreds of millions for paper thin ships that can be countered with a single mod worth 65m.

If you expect to kill expensive ships, you're gonna have to start shelling out some isk of your own. Or if you're strapped for cash, bring some friend launchers.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.17 19:41:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/01/2008 19:41:36
Originally by: Flashmurder
Fair enough, I didn't really read it since I'm only on here because I have 30j to do right now. NanoHACs aren't imba'd and they don't need nerfing, my personal fave fix is bringing a friend with a huggy, my blasters hurt them alot moar when they're doing 10m/s.


I fully approve of not reading this thread and blobbing it with useless crap.

Btw, that tracking rig wasn't such a bad idea, just toying with it.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.01.17 19:51:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Grimpak
2 tracking rigs?Laughing


Might be nice for interceptor ganking, actually... ;)

Although with the bonus to tracking it gets (which is preety awesome), 1x tracking and 1x falloff would probably give me better performance.


good man, if there's one thing I learned is that there is no "too much tracking". ever.

only bad tracking and good tracking.

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2008.01.17 20:41:00 - [144]
 

Every thread on the board seems to become a *nerf-Nano!!* thread these days and its getting really annoying.

Here is my 10 step guide to combatting nano ships:


1) Learn how to use heat

2) fit a webber

3) fit a heavy neut

4) fit tracking mods

6) fly a nano

7) have a friend fly a nano

8) shut up and don't ***** on the forums

9) forget the forums exist and don't post anything about nanos there

10) quite eve, contract me your stuff


and btw, I don't fly nano ships except for my Crow which if someone tells me tells me its unfair to hit 7km/s plus in I will scream. Rolling EyesConfused

Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.01.17 21:19:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus

No, you're missing the point. The thing that people complain about, is that in order to 'deal' with a nanoship/gang, you NEED to counter fit. It's not about what tactics work, and what don't. It's about the opportunity cost of _having_ to do so.

Most ships and setups, sure, if someone's got a well co-ordinated gang/tactic going, they have an advantage. That's entirely fine. But having a situation where _either_ you have a counter fit to this particular tactic, or you JUST DON'T ENGAGE because you're guaranteed to lose, is, and remains the problem.



I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of having different sizes and types of ships and a huge assortment of different modules to encourage diversity and tradeoffs that result in ships that fare differently against different opponents? In other words, there's always opportunity cost whatever you fit. If nanoships are such a huge problem, wouldn't the opportunity cost of NOT fitting for anti-nano be higher than the opposite?

I dunno about others but a lot of this thread I read "I play high dps sturdy tank, everyone else should too" and/or "It hurts my dps/tank to fit against nanos -> nanos need a nerf because it is inconceivable and utterly unfair that I should actually trade my tank/damage for antinano mods". Makes for a dull game imo and I'll be sorely disappointed if all this whine results in anything more than maybe balancing polycarbs or possibly reconsidering the bonuses in implants.

Ione Hunt
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2008.01.17 21:47:00 - [146]
 

Best tip ever: WATCH LOCAL AND USE YOUR SCANNER!!

Reason I'm posting this...I sometimes have the impression these threads get started by the same people who rat in Ravens without watching local. They die of course and then come whining on the forums instead of using the better remedy...watching local.

StarLite
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.01.17 22:36:00 - [147]
 

get an inty with a web in the gang and web the curse ;)

DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.18 00:29:00 - [148]
 

The annoying part of nano hacs is their hability to run away... the rest of the setup is a laugh..no damage, no tank... just speed. Besides small stuff, haulers or ratting ships, they have to engage in groups so they can be effective, aka gank, but I guess any ship is good at ganking... but they run fast so they are popular.


Lil Mule
Posted - 2008.01.18 00:58:00 - [149]
 

Two words - Energy Nuetralizer.

If you had dropped a Neut on the curse it would have been dead in the water in 2 seconds, seriously. Only if he had Force Recon 5 would he have been out of range of a Heavy energy Neut 2..and very few pilots in this game have Force Recon 5.

Neut's ftw against Nano gangs.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.01.18 03:35:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Lil Mule
Two words - Energy Nuetralizer.

If you had dropped a Neut on the curse it would have been dead in the water in 2 seconds, seriously. Only if he had Force Recon 5 would he have been out of range of a Heavy energy Neut 2..and very few pilots in this game have Force Recon 5.

Neut's ftw against Nano gangs.


Even if he had force recon five, he has to enter neutralizer range to warp disrupt you. ;-)

-Liang


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