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Mitch Taylor
Caldari
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.01.12 15:32:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
do u realy thing original guy still owns this char ?


ahh apologies fella, the original owner was a muppet.

XoPhyte
Gallente
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.12 15:36:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 12/01/2008 15:53:42
We like PVP, pure and simple, and we have been in wars for a LONG time (it's really what we do). Just look at the fleet battles section to get an idea of what really occurs (rather then listening to CAOD).

Originally by: Endeva
in eve

blob > skills


This tbh. CCP seems to be bent on making every ship the same. A good solo ship becomes available, a couple of forum whines begin, a CCP nerf ensues. Now it's bringing more ships to the fight that insures victory over better setups, tactics and skills (which include SP). And so we are stuck with grids that dont load, waiting 20 minutes for a module to activate, being shot by "invisible" people etc.

Gankageddons, blasterthrons, superfast crows, long range sniping in fleet etc. etc. are things of the past. Long gone are the days of "wave of mutilation" videos by farjung, or -A- warping @ 200+ KM and obliterating an ASCN fleet 5 times their size at range because the newer players in ASCN at that time (I was one of them) didn't have the necessary skills to fight fleet battles at that range or calibar (You can watch the E3 conflict video to see this). Watching BS fleets warp in at range, snipe, warp out, reset up for another strike etc are gone. Now have hundreds of ships jump in and warp 100km from each other and press f1-f6(f8) and get the "waiting for module to activate" message over and over again.

Recruitment used to be based on SP, specialization, experience with PVP etc. Merc corps are really a thing of the past, small lethal highly skilled players that could wreak havoc on large alliances are gone (like burn eden). So you see smaller corps and alliances merging so they to can form a blob. Recruitment is now based upon a warm body to fly a ship, the ship type or the skills sadly no longer makes that big of a difference.

Eve is simply a "bring more ships to the fight" game anymore Crying or Very sad

ExTrEmM OCL
Minmatar
AdAstra.
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.01.12 15:38:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
One reason bob get such favorables K-D ratio is that they generally have a spy on the enemy's TS telling them who is going to get called primary/secondary, so they can lock him to remote him, who's calling the shots so bob kill him first, etc...

They're good at pvp, but wouldn't get such favorable ratios without metagaming.

jealous ?need more skills ?

BoB Peon
Caldari
Stop Posting on COAD You Tards
Posted - 2008.01.12 15:39:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: BoB Peon on 12/01/2008 15:40:04
Originally by: Evil Thug
Thats why bob came to catch to fight with us + RA (2.5k member total), and bring MC and 7+ pet alliances Rolling Eyes


So how many times have you fired your DD since the titan nerf anyway Mr Thug? How's your life of living inside a bubble? Maybe someday you will find those lost balls and join us outside.

Buzee
Caldari
Flight Of Fantasy
The OSS
Posted - 2008.01.12 15:42:00 - [65]
 

I hear PL blobs you on a steady basis and loses , they have a really bad k:d ratio. And yeah either the losses are delayed or a lot of members haven't supplied their API keys :P

Cpt Pugwash
Caldari
Rubra Libertas Militia
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:01:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Angelus X
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
To respond to the OP, reasons I found Bobs killboard to be inaccurate (and it's been a long time since I was in the south) were.

[b]1 Bob do not always post their losses.


Glad to see the bitterness doesn't fade with time CptStabwash Very Happy


I don't believe my post was neither bitter or even comes accross as bitter, I cannot however say the same for your post.

Originally by: Angelus X
It's well known that all BoB pilots post their lossmails, and on the rare occasion that any do get missed, they are more than welcome to be sent to any BoB CEO or Director and said pilot gets a spanking. YARRRR!!


So do All Bob pilots post their loss mails or do they on the rare occasion get missed? (option 1 then I apologise for my inaccuracy, Option 2 my statement stands)

As i mentioned in my first post I have been in the north a long time now so maybe things have changed but i very much doubt it.
Previously regardless of what Allaince leadership thought or desired Bob pilots were not posting many loss mails,(not all not even a majority but a significant proportion) it is yet another example of Bob arrogance that you expect pilots to be bothered to send killmails to your leaders to correct your KB, frankly most pilots just don't care enough about Bob stats.

Originally by: Angelus X
The problem with allied mails is unavoidable, short of giving every single pilot that's ever been on a KM aside a BoB pilot access to our killboard...


We agree it is a problem and not one in my opinion worth the effort of sorting it out.

Originally by: Angelus X
I'd like to see another alliances killboard more accurate than ours.


And to think I had thought Bob had learnt to supress it's arrogance Sad



Lord Shreder
Caldari
Anvil Inc.
Superior Eve Engineering
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:08:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
Stuff


You must be new or trying to push propaganda with infactual information (probably both). Bob has always had a long standing policy to post all mails. As the saying goes, proof or STFU.

Mang0o
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:09:00 - [68]
 

lol when i saw this thread first time i told my self, this will start the forum battles.. haha and it didLaughingLaughingLaughing

Cpt Pugwash
Caldari
Rubra Libertas Militia
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:19:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: YouShallKnowFear
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
Stuff


1 My post very specifically mentioned it was a long time since i was fighting Bob in the south certainly pre API killboards. I am under the impression however that API has problems with losses and they may not get posted.

2 Does the Bob killboard hold logs on when posts are made? if so I think it would be interesting to see how many get posted on a different day to their timestamp.

3 I am not part of the coalition, I don't speculate how many allies Bob has remaining. even according to your off the top of your head figure of 90% then allies account for roughly a 10% killboard inaccuracy. Significant enough for me to mention when responding to the OP as a factor in the killnoard stats.

4 It is entirely possible Bob have changed their fleet makeup since I fought them. I do not have the benefit of forum spies or Database knowledge/access enough to examine the killboard. A quick look at the the KB does suggest that Bob lose a lot more Tech II cruisers than they do battleships.

5 K/D stats may be as good as ever but the stats here Eve Territorial Maps suggests they are on the wrong end of the mother of all beatings

Lord Shreder
Caldari
Anvil Inc.
Superior Eve Engineering
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:22:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Cpt Pugwash

5 K/D stats may be as good as ever but the stats here Eve Territorial Maps suggests they are on the wrong end of the mother of all beatings


Ok goonalt Very Happy. The question was around the KILLBOARD and FLEETBATTLES, not how many regions has bob taken or lost. post with your goon main, and we all know your saying. It's not K/D ratios, but about the end objective. Don't work so hard to push your propaganda.

Will Hunter
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:27:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Scavok

Most of BoB's large fights in the last week have been turkey shoots with people thinking they have the edge, jumping into them, and then dieing because nobody can load. The only reasonably safe way to enter a lagged system is through a jump bridge at an armed POS, but nearly all of the systems that BoB are fighting in are jammed, so there's not much choice if BoB manages to rep the jammer and form up before your fleet enters the system. Other alliances like TCF, IAC, and GS never really have a choice since we don't own titans. Many of their systems also have jump bridge arrays that work in jammed systems so if those aren't knocked out they don't even need to take their jammer down at any point to enter the system safely with any ship, including titans, so you can't always sneak a capital fleet in system when BoB brings theirs.

The 2 or 3 times BoB was willing to jump into us in 9-9 once we had the jammer up the results were mostly the same. I can't think of any other systems that BoB fought a POS war in that had the jammer on our side. 25S and FAT were jammed but Goonswarm wasn't really involved there when BoB took it so I don't know much about it, aside from the jammer frequently being offlined for god knows whatever reason. It certainly doesn't look like it was a turkey shoot for them though.

Even the fight tonight against MC where it looks like BoB wiped the floor with them was at an armed POS since MC needed the jammer down.

So not counting doomsdays, I'd attribute 95% of the fights where they get absurd ratios to lag and defensive advantages CCP put in with the titan nerf. If you get them in a fight where two fleets with the same types of ships both have the grid loaded then their ships die just as easily as anyone else's, but BoB avoids these types of fights like the plague and cyno jammers make it easy to do so.

As for significant losses when they pulled back, just about every time BoB pulled out of a region it was after a pretty significant defeat. After 9-9 they gave up in Tenerifis, after 66- they pulled everything out of Omist. We killed over 70 large armed POS of theirs between those two systems, they didn't exactly sit by the entire time, we traded a lot of fleets and capitals. In 2-R after BoB failed to kill any GS towers and lost 10 capitals trying to re-reinforce them the next day, they gave up trying to defend K-9/2-R and went back to 25S/FAT. When the last RISE towers were exiting reinforced in 5P-, BoB was unwilling to jump into the GS, TCF, and UNL fleets and ended up pulling out of the rest of ASCN space without a significant fight. V2-, 5-N, and most of fountain they let go to wave their **** in front of MC. In FAT they pulled out after the cyno jammer POS went down, and in 25S they pulled out after we killed something like 8 carriers and a fleet trying to save the jammer POS for few losses.


quoting the truth , becouse im down

Jakiri
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:29:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Watching BS fleets warp in at range, snipe, warp out, reset up for another strike etc are gone.



This may be because every time I've been in a fleet that had a drive-by attempted against it the attackers lost some BS and generally killed nothing.

Cvuos
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:29:00 - [73]
 

BoB does not always post their losses, but they are way better at it than most. The GF killboard is leekspinned at the moment so I can't link comparisons but mostly it's new BoB members with dumb fittings that don't post. I'm sure there's mistakes and forgetfulness as well, but I don't care because I play Eve Online not killboard.com.

Cvuos
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:31:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Cvuos on 12/01/2008 16:31:47
Also there's a lot of conspiracy theories about BoB in fleet battles, what they do best is the most important thing in Eve combat: don't jump into lag.

I've been on a gate that BoB jumped into and got eradicated, I've jumped into a BoB gate and been eradicated myself. It's real simple. But sometimes you have to do it...

Cpt Pugwash
Caldari
Rubra Libertas Militia
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:33:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Lord Shreder
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash

5 K/D stats may be as good as ever but the stats here Eve Territorial Maps suggests they are on the wrong end of the mother of all beatings


Ok goonalt Very Happy. The question was around the KILLBOARD and FLEETBATTLES, not how many regions has bob taken or lost. post with your goon main, and we all know your saying. It's not K/D ratios, but about the end objective. Don't work so hard to push your propaganda.


And I andswered the OP's question to the best of my ability including some background which wasn't directly a reason for the K/D figures but a some addition info regarding the Bob Killboard

My anti Bob cridentials go way beyond the formation of Eve Goons and right back into the pre Bob era with emnity toward Evolution and ATUK/DICE stretching back as far as 2003.

and wasn't it DBP who liked to quote: It's better to keep quiet and have people think you're stupid, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
- Mark Twain

For the first time in my forum career I am going to advise somebody to listen to DBP


Rhaegor Stormborn
Minmatar
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:38:00 - [76]
 

This is an excellent thread and I thank the OP for creating it.

Lord Shreder
Caldari
Anvil Inc.
Superior Eve Engineering
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:38:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Lord Shreder on 12/01/2008 16:43:42
Originally by: Cpt Pugwash

and wasn't it DBP who liked to quote: It's better to keep quiet and have people think you're stupid, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
- Mark Twain

For the first time in my forum career I am going to advise somebody to listen to DBP





I agree, you should listen to this advice. Because as it stands you making false accusations around bob intentionally not posting loss mails makes you look quite stupid. No killboard is 100%, but for years Bob's has been considered the most accurate.

So to make it easy I'll go back to my original statement. When you say Bob doesnt post lossmails, I say, proof or STFU. It's really that easy, leaves all the propaganda out of it. Wink

Or keep posting your anti-bob bias when the thread is about fleet battle stats, not conspiracys or lost regions. But it's CAOD, so I am quite sure you will continue to post.

Local Her0
Minmatar
La Mancha Corp
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:40:00 - [78]
 

the pure truth is, that BOB pretty much owns the rest of eve day by day as the killboard shows. Their K/D ratio shows there omipotence imho. They even went so far to throw whole regions at the enemy e.g.: "Bob throws Catch at the Coalition wrecking for 500 Battleship losses" its pretty amazing imhoqtfbbq. The regions are lost now tho ...

Mr Mozzie
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.12 16:57:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Cpt Pugwash

1 Bob do not always post their losses

2 When they do post their losses they are often slow about it so they do not appear on any daily K/D ratio

3 Bob killboard does not show allied deaths but shows all kills a Bob member was involved in even if he was just 1 member in a fleet battle

4 Bob killboard shows Battelship K/D ratios yet Bob fly a lot of tech II cruisers.



1) We have an open policy of posting all kill and loss mails. If anyone does find that a lossmail is missing from the bob killboard after about 24 hours, please evemail that person's CEO with the details.


2) The bob killboard has statistics for fleet battles (via the fleet battles link) and daily totals (linked via the date), as well as for individuals. These go back to the start of eve, so you can see the kill/loss ratios back to 2004. If you look at historical statistics, you will see that the present day's statistics are representative of the statistics from past days, months and years.

Also if you watch closely, you will see that most mails are posted within a few hours, and pretty much all within 24 hours.


3) Yes that is a problem, but as others have said, allies rarely make up more than 10% of our fleets. This can be verified this via the fleet battle feature where, all combatants involved in kills are listed, including allies (even if allied losses are not given).

This extra 5-10% of allies hardly make a significant dent in our kill to loss ratios.

You may also notice from the fleet battle feature that bob pilots regularly engage larger fleets and win.


4) The daily, fleet battle and individual kill/loss statistics are broken down by ship type (i.e. frigates, interceptors, HACs etc.) If you go back through a the fleet battles, you will see that bob do not use unusually massive numbers of HACs.

As for the BS ratio, which is the only one given on the main page. No single statistic will ever be representative. If you want to understand things better you need to look at the detailed statistics, which are easily accesable.

What the number of BS kills is a very good guide to, however, is fleet activity. On a slow day maybe there might be less than 10 BS killed and lost. When big fleet battles occur there will be hundreds.

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:12:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Cvuos
BoB does not always post their losses, but they are way better at it than most. The GF killboard is leekspinned at the moment so I can't link comparisons but mostly it's new BoB members with dumb fittings that don't post. I'm sure there's mistakes and forgetfulness as well, but I don't care because I play Eve Online not killboard.com.


I heard goonfleet killboard got reinforced by bob killboard. I understand there is plenty of stront to keep goon board going for now.

Doddy
Gallente
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:12:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Cpt Pugwash
To respond to the OP, reasons I found Bobs killboard to be inaccurate (and it's been a long time since I was in the south) were.

1 Bob do not always post their losses

2 When they do post their losses they are often slow about it so they do not appear on any daily K/D ratio

3 Bob killboard does not show allied deaths but shows all kills a Bob member was involved in even if he was just 1 member in a fleet battle

4 Bob killboard shows Battelship K/D ratios yet Bob fly a lot of tech II cruisers.



Non of the above are unique to Bob and help to explain many great looking stats around the various allaince/merc killboards.

Slowly some killboards have attempted to address this with points sytems and isk values, but until there is a universal killboard then we can enjoy the speculation we have about who has the biggest best and most impressive K/D ratio and if CAOD wasn't arguing about K/D then it would soon find something else to whine about.


Were Bob have been out ahead of other allainces in the past is in the K/D ratio chest beating, but even that has died down to more normal levels in the last 6-12 months now they are taking a beating.


1. BoBs killboard is as accurate as that of any alliance in the coallition, if not moreso.
2. BoB post losses quicker than most coallition alliances do (when BoB killboard didnt let us pull mails our pilots were involved in, we had to go pull them from the losers kb and, surprise surprise, they often weren't there) It does take up to an hour to update, but this is also true for kills.
3. This point is true, but as is often pointed out, BoB doesnt have many allies left. Also the same could be said of almost any other alliance, and to a greater degree.
4. lol, what?. BoB fleets are mostly made up of battleships, roaming gangs contain more HAC's etc, just like every other alliance. The bs k/d ratio is used because it is the surest way to tell how well an allianceis doing in the big fights. Anyone wanting to know the k/d ratios for any other types of ships just needs to click on the date in question.

Strathis Mikluk
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:14:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Strathis Mikluk on 12/01/2008 17:16:10
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
...



You seem to sound like you're very active in the war against bob, but the truth is, you're yet to score a kill on bob, and have only appeared in a noob ship once, and lost a capsule along with it.

Now don't feel compelled to reply because I most likely won't read it, but I do find it very odd that you're telling the coalition off about flying noob ships against bob when thats the only ship you've flown. I see you posting a lot here, so take my advice, cut down on posting, it doesn't give you a good image, and whether or not people like it, everything you say represents your corp and alliance. Mitch is a good bloke, Love him to bits etc, but please, cut down mate.


No-one likes backseat FC's :)

The Tumaril
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:21:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: torN Deception
Edited by: torN Deception on 12/01/2008 11:52:08
BoB's got a hard-on for k/d and they measure that by battlships, which is perhaps why BoB almost never flies battleships. They fly(and lose) far more expensive HACs and command ships so they can jerk off to their great BS k/d ratio.

As as people have mentioned, BoB will go log off or hide in a POS if they can't get a fight in their favor. While goons will happily throw away entire fleets in situations where the exact same thing has happened a dozen times before.


Thanks for the new sig lol I think I wee'd a bit in my pants at this one Very Happy

Cvuos
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:37:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Cvuos
BoB does not always post their losses, but they are way better at it than most. The GF killboard is leekspinned at the moment so I can't link comparisons but mostly it's new BoB members with dumb fittings that don't post. I'm sure there's mistakes and forgetfulness as well, but I don't care because I play Eve Online not killboard.com.


I heard goonfleet killboard got reinforced by bob killboard. I understand there is plenty of stront to keep goon board going for now.


we lagged out our own board with shuttlebookmarkbombing losses.

Svett
Caldari
The Executives
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:44:00 - [85]
 

I have more of a death to kill ratio. Am I doing this right?



For the OP :
Yes the BS ratio is normally a good one, but as others have said that does not take into account any allied losses.

Yes we normally kill more than we die. Good FC's and competent pvp'ers are a good combination.

As far as the regions go, thats not my thing. I'm just here to shoot red things.

Darko1107
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:48:00 - [86]
 

Well they wouldnt be still around if they lose every fleet battle they had would they.

BoBs killboard is generally very accurate. But some it doesnt work!! Why!!

welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:53:00 - [87]
 

BoB have lost heavily against fewer numbers in the past. Unfortunately they've owned CAOD for the last 3 years (excluding the last 4-5months) so any losses were quickly buried under a pile of posts and insults ("you're insignificant" etc) by their own memberbase and the legion of adoring fans they had at the time. Having said they rarely lost capital ships, whether or not thats still the case I don't know.

They're still pound for pound the best pvp alliance in the game but they're not infallible and never have been. If you read these forums too much a year or two back I wouldn't blame you for believing it though. They twisted everyone on these forums around their little fingers with masterfully timed propaganda.

Strathis Mikluk
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
Posted - 2008.01.12 18:03:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: welsh wizard
BoB have lost heavily against fewer numbers in the past. Unfortunately they've owned CAOD for the last 3 years (excluding the last 4-5months) so any losses were quickly buried under a pile of posts and insults ("you're insignificant" etc) by their own memberbase and the legion of adoring fans they had at the time. Having said they rarely lost capital ships, whether or not thats still the case I don't know.

They're still pound for pound the best pvp alliance in the game but they're not infallible and never have been. If you read these forums too much a year or two back I wouldn't blame you for believing it though. They twisted everyone on these forums around their little fingers with masterfully timed propaganda.


You're still the only cool Role-playing bob hater :P and thats because you're the very definition of awesome in a crow.

Lemptie
Gallente
Glass House
Posted - 2008.01.12 18:29:00 - [89]
 



Think ccp handels lag wrong,what happens is your ship jumps in and forget the pilot.
Ship got blowup.Pilot is still sitting at the gate to jumpin.
Better is pilot jumping in loads grid,only then you get your ship.Think the program needs to look where the pilot is ,when thats o.k you get your ship.

arbalesttom
Caldari
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.12 18:37:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 12/01/2008 11:52:07
Originally by: Lemptie


Only thing they do is ,sit with 150 in a system,with 30 carries.And when they spot a bigfleet coming, the launch all fighters and the lag starts.Evry one that jumps in will die,when you dead you don`t know it.Then you go to BOB killboard and you see that you are dead.
Then you go ratting for your next fittings.
Then you gona tell yes i play eve,but i never fight,i die without firing one shot.


EvE a SPACE pvp game.


One thing that we northerns are aware of is that bob use far too many gallente ships. This means that when we amarr pilots attack them, we need to outnumber bob at least 3-1 to have any chance of victory.




Hey troll, you even starting to derail threads in CAOD with your 'amarr is gimped' crap? So that makes at least two parts of the forum you are sprewing your crap around in circles.

Please get this man banned from the forums modsCrying or Very sad


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