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Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.01.09 00:09:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Kabajashi San
So if you want to know if we pose a threat to you and your operations you should simply ask yourself if your are willing to step up to your words and end your support for the slavers. If not you will have to live with the risk of being held accountable.


Step up to my words? As I said I used to respect but not support UK's actions. Now you have neither my respect nor support, though of course you do not desire or require my endorsement. Also as I have said I couldn't care less for your motives or ideals, I've seen Minmatar happier in the Empire than they are in the Republic and vice-versa it is not my place to claim to know what is right for an entire people either way.

Much like almost every other person in empire space I will take the risk. It appears that you will have far too many targets to bother yourselves with myself or other such non-militant collaborators any time soon.

Thankyou to all UK members who clarified your position and aided me in creation of my risk-assessment report.

[And my, my can't a discussion move once certain "stars" of the community enter it.]

GoGo Yubari
Veto.
Posted - 2008.01.09 00:10:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Too much drama for a 19 man corp anyway.


I wholeheartedly agree.

Kehmor
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.01.09 00:17:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Well, considering you're asking CVA for permission before killing pirates like goonswarm, I can't really take you serious. Don't pretend to be the heroic anti-pirate force that you claim to be now, when you let others dictate for you who is a pirate and who isn't.

Too much drama for a 19 man corp anyway.


ok i'll make it simple so even you can under stand.

We are better than you.

GoGo Yubari
Veto.
Posted - 2008.01.09 00:31:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Drykor
Well, considering you're asking CVA for permission before killing pirates like goonswarm, I can't really take you serious. Don't pretend to be the heroic anti-pirate force that you claim to be now, when you let others dictate for you who is a pirate and who isn't.

Too much drama for a 19 man corp anyway.


ok i'll make it simple so even you can under stand.

We are better than you.


Hello Captain Obvious! Wink

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2008.01.09 05:29:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: GoGo Yubari
Edited by: GoGo Yubari on 08/01/2008 20:56:12
Originally by: Conlin
You make a statement suggesting you will avoid territorial systems then have a hissy fit re : kbp .
You make no sense .
If that is an attempt to scare us from maintaining our blockade then I suggest you try a bit harder , because right now your just making your initial statement to be a lie .
And leads us to believe you have another agenda here .Question


You are grasping for straws here. We'll gladly stay out of your territorial conflict. This has been demonstrated exhaustively. I suggested to your diplomat that we set each other to +10. This was denied. I'm now ready to give you warning each time we come through. You are apparently not interested. Your belligerence isn't going to stop us from coming to Providence via any route we want, because we don't think you can order us around, but there's no reason we have to shoot at each other. The ball is firmly in your court.


Were past caring anymore , we got past caring when everyone realised your just attention seeking .
Come to provi , dont come ...youve contradicted yourself from the start , nobody really cares .
I tried to be nice and got someone bumping there gums without engaging there brain ,
Why, thou dish of fool .

Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.01.09 09:54:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 09/01/2008 09:57:57

Lets be honest about our diplomacy shall we GoGo?

As you well know PAK were already red to Ushra'Khan for acts of piracy committed in the past.

You offered to reset standings, something I have nothing against given your new found calling, but pointed out that it was likely a waste of time as if your were neutral on our overviews in Providence or Catch you would be fired upon under our well publicised ROE. You didn't respond to that so we still have you red.

No where did you offer us +10.

Accuracy is important if you are going to make public what was private.

Karn shrugs and grins

Does anyone else find this thread somewhat ironic and amusing?

Slavers rabbiting on about free space, slaver holding corps gnashing their teeth impotently, while pirates turned anti-pirates try and fail to remain neutral as they consider wading into possibly the most politically loaded theatre of war in the 'verse.

Its a funny old world.

Mortim
Minmatar
Madison Industrial Co.
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.09 10:17:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia
As you well know PAK were already red to Ushra'Khan for acts of piracy committed in the past.

...

Does anyone else find this thread somewhat ironic and amusing?


Yes.

It's not a funny old world, it's positively hilarious.

Mort
Chancellor Cherry-Picker

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.01.09 10:22:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: zoolkhan on 09/01/2008 10:22:02
who are PAK? i have no clue
until this thread started off i didnt know they exist.

aparrantly they were a number on our red list ; aparrantly for piracy back then.

in this thread they achieved something that paris hilton and many others in the thousands years behind her achieved... no brains, but natural instinkt for getting press.

ANY PRESS IS BETTER THAN NO PRESS - is the leading motivation
behind this now 5 pages which should have been rather something like:

"we come to providence, we have reset standings"

"welcome, our guns are waiting"

- my own fault, i did the first reply :o)

getting their name burned in in peoples minds just by having free press

she will probably never enter providence, and if she does she will die and her horde with her. Unclear if pie/cva will kill her for past crimes, or if ushra'khan will be faster :-)

irrelevant that all is

they now have name, even i can remember for.. say.. a few days.

congratulations slaves of the media

___
This is Zool Khan
for Ushra'Khan in Providence
powered by Galnet and Stellaris Artois, the beer of the free.



Xenea
Amarr
Posted - 2008.01.09 16:34:00 - [129]
 

Chanting the mantra, peace on earth...

Reash
Amarr
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.09 22:36:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 09/01/2008 09:57:57

Slavers rabbiting on about free space


Do not misunderstand, Providence is not freespace, it is CVA space, neutrals are simply free to live in if they obey our simple laws.

Renosha Argaron
Caldari
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2008.01.10 02:13:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Renosha Argaron on 10/01/2008 02:14:42


First and foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome GoGo & PAK to Providence if and when you choose to enter this space Wink Its always nice to see more anti-pirate corps and alliances around these parts, and Sev3rance being an NRDS alliance, you will remain neutral (or positive) to us for as long as you wish it.Very Happy


Originally by: The Cosmopolite
However, you're right, what you do is nothing to us unless you actually take hostile action against us. This will include, for completeness, reporting our movements in CVA intelligence channels should you ever be admitted to them.

The Cosmopolite



I seem to recal Jade telling me that S/He informed TRI on CVA+ allies movment's on a regular basis even though TRI pilots where opeining fire on your very own corp members, Also Who PAK wish to speak to and where is there own business....what happend to your so called policy of people being "Free"?

SF are very quick to call anyone's opinion that dont match there own on the subject of there relationship with UK as "delusional ravings and drivel", but the bottom line is that the UK/SF mind numbing rhetoric and opinion's on the Sev and CVA's relationship is just as delusional, people in glass house's cosmo!;)

Im not going to get in to a smackfest about this as to be perfectly honest, i really cant be botherd going over the same old topic time and time again with an SF/UK propaganda machine that always seem's to kick in on matter's like this, propaganda and speculation seems to be your weapon of choice these days, You know nothing about Sev3rance politic's nor about our relationship with CVA, and your choice not to listen will be your own undoing, "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument. (William G. McAdoo (1863 - 1941)"

Regards

RenoshaVery Happy


Lorna V
Minmatar
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2008.01.10 05:18:00 - [132]
 

I have a hypothetical for Jade or Cosmo: If PAK were to say anchor a large bubble for us and we were to catch and destroy one of your pilots in it, would that be considered a hostile act by PAK against you? You've said you don't consider it a violation of your "NRDS" policy when you do the same to facilitate UK's attacks in Providence on individuals you have set to neutral, and I'm just wondering if you're at least willing to be consistent with your hypocrisy?

Cheers,

Lorna V

Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.01.10 05:49:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Lorna V
I have a hypothetical for Jade or Cosmo: If PAK were to say anchor a large bubble for us and we were to catch and destroy one of your pilots in it, would that be considered a hostile act by PAK against you?


No.

Rikelov
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.01.10 08:14:00 - [134]
 

This is an amusing thread...Pak, 'pirates= bad...slavers= cool...pirates who are friends with slavers= we can live with that'.

19 man corp? So next time I form a 12 pilot gang it will be 12 v 130+19...that doesn't make much of a difference to me.

I wouldn't be posting, but for Renosha...always nice to see you about, glad you are in good health.

Carry on, Rikelov

G0rF
Gallente
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.01.10 13:47:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf


This is my real name. I'm simply relatively new to GalNet. Thanks for the warm welcome.
It's interesting, until stumbling upon this thread I have always respected, if not supported, the Minmatar and their fight for freedom. I never realized the sickening truth behind it. Freedom at any price, even if it means turning the entire cluster against your own people to achieve it.




I appreciate this response is late, but, welcome Mr. Blackleaf.

I'd like to point out that not all Minmatar Alliances are Ushra'Khan.

Not all anti-slavery campaigners / activists are terrorists.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Our motivations may be the similar to those of the U'K - an end to the forceful suppression of the self-determinism of sentient beings in my own personal case, an end to slavery, and a free and safe homeland for the Minmatar peoples in the case of my alliance - but our methods may differ widely.

Thankyou for your time.

Niding
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.01.10 14:26:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Rikelov
This is an amusing thread...Pak, 'pirates= bad...slavers= cool...pirates who are friends with slavers= we can live with that'.

19 man corp? So next time I form a 12 pilot gang it will be 12 v 130+19...that doesn't make much of a difference to me.

I wouldn't be posting, but for Renosha...always nice to see you about, glad you are in good health.

Carry on, Rikelov


They clearly said they would hunt pirates. As it is, Providence has a fairly large population of pod pilots that are flagged as outlawed, but not nessisarily considered pirates.
To avoid shooting friendly neutrals, PAK did the right thing, and contacted the local authorities (CVA) for a comprehensive list of known criminals.
If they choose to omit some of these criminals from their targetlist, thats their prerogative.

If you decide to alienate PAK, thats your own doing, not CVAs.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.01.10 15:04:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: G0rF

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.



My apologies, you are quite right it was not my intent to bundle all Matari organizations together, my comments were aimed solely at UK. I'm aware that the vast majority of Minmatar aligned organizations (and the Republic itself) approach this issue with far less self-defeating aggression.

Still, you do well to distance your organization from the UK. There is an gestalt image forming of the typical Minmatar and it is not a pretty one.

Kabajashi San
Minmatar
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.01.10 18:56:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
There is an gestalt image forming of the typical Minmatar and it is not a pretty one.


That of blood thirsty warriors, willing to take up any fight that seems to be right to them, ignoring the squabble others call politics and not compromising on their ideals?

I wouldn't call that pretty, more ... honest.

Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.01.10 19:01:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Renosha Argaron
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument. (William G. McAdoo (1863 - 1941)"


There ought to be a law against having this much irony in one place.


Welcome to Providence PAK. I think you know the lay of the land around here by now. Wink



Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2008.01.10 20:44:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Niding
Originally by: Rikelov
This is an amusing thread...Pak, 'pirates= bad...slavers= cool...pirates who are friends with slavers= we can live with that'.

19 man corp? So next time I form a 12 pilot gang it will be 12 v 130+19...that doesn't make much of a difference to me.

I wouldn't be posting, but for Renosha...always nice to see you about, glad you are in good health.

Carry on, Rikelov


They clearly said they would hunt pirates. As it is, Providence has a fairly large population of pod pilots that are flagged as outlawed, but not nessisarily considered pirates.
To avoid shooting friendly neutrals, PAK did the right thing, and contacted the local authorities (CVA) for a comprehensive list of known criminals.
If they choose to omit some of these criminals from their targetlist, thats their prerogative.

If you decide to alienate PAK, thats your own doing, not CVAs.


Your choice in words is interesting , whats also interesting is the fact PAK chose the title to be towards U'K & SF .

Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.01.10 22:01:00 - [141]
 

Considering that you are the only two non-piratical organisations likely to take issue with them respecting the CVA authority, there is very little interest in this being for the attention of SF and U'K.

Though I'm not sure why they bothered addressing it to the blood mad terrorists of the U'K, as there was no shadow of a doubt that the U'K would continue to show its true nature as blood thirsty savages far more interested in their perceived ideas of revenge and in killing those working for peace than they are interested in actually freeing anyone.

I never thought I would say this, but you all make even the anarchists look like reasonable people these days.

Niding
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.01.10 22:06:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Niding on 10/01/2008 22:07:44
It seems logical to adress UK/SF as their relations to CVA is strained to say the least.
PAK assumingly wanted to pre-empt any issues you might have had with them using the CVA criminal records for operations, and judging by this thread, it was prudent of them.

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.01.10 23:09:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Renosha Argaron

Originally by: The Cosmopolite
However, you're right, what you do is nothing to us unless you actually take hostile action against us. This will include, for completeness, reporting our movements in CVA intelligence channels should you ever be admitted to them.

The Cosmopolite



I seem to recal Jade telling me that S/He informed TRI on CVA+ allies movment's on a regular basis even though TRI pilots where opeining fire on your very own corp members, Also Who PAK wish to speak to and where is there own business....what happend to your so called policy of people being "Free"?



You illustrate the point rather than counter it. CVA are hostiles, therefore we will give intelligence on their movements to anyone likely to do them harm, whether those people are friends, neutrals or enemies of ours. If they choose to make use of the information and attack people hostile to us, so much the better. We will not give intelligence on the movement of neutrals to anyone. Not to a hostile, not to another neutral, not to a friend.

So if we verifiably see that some 'neutral' is passing intel on our movements to people who are hostile, we consider it a verified hostile act and will treat them accordingly.

People are free to shoot at us so long as they understand the consequences. Similarly, they are free to pass intelligence on us to enemies so long as they understand what might happen in response.

As for the relationship of CVA and Sev3rance, all we have ever really said is that the relationship is one of master and servant. That language offends Sev3rance and the CVA will publicly deny it but ultimately one who obeys the rules of another in the knowledge that failure to do so would result in penalties being incurred is a servant at best, a slave at worst.

The Cosmopolite




Saraith Narr
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Posted - 2008.01.10 23:30:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Saraith Narr on 10/01/2008 23:30:00
Quote:
but ultimately one who obeys the rules of another in the knowledge that failure to do so would result in penalties being incurred is a servant at best, a slave at worst.


Does this not also aptly describe Ushra'Khans policy towards neutrals in Providence? This is a policy that you tacticly support through your alliance with the terrorists.

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.01.11 00:14:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Saraith Narr

Quote:
but ultimately one who obeys the rules of another in the knowledge that failure to do so would result in penalties being incurred is a servant at best, a slave at worst.


Does this not also aptly describe Ushra'Khans policy towards neutrals in Providence? This is a policy that you tacticly support through your alliance with the terrorists.



We don't support the Ushra'Khan policy of shooting neutrals in Providence in any way whatever. We have our view on the matter but we are not about to insist that the Ushra'Khan adopt our RoE or similar policies. They must make decisions on these matters for themselves and we will always respect their right to do so.

The Cosmopolite

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2008.01.11 06:25:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Considering that you are the only two non-piratical organisations likely to take issue with them respecting the CVA authority, there is very little interest in this being for the attention of SF and U'K.

Though I'm not sure why they bothered addressing it to the blood mad terrorists of the U'K, as there was no shadow of a doubt that the U'K would continue to show its true nature as blood thirsty savages far more interested in their perceived ideas of revenge and in killing those working for peace than they are interested in actually freeing anyone.

I never thought I would say this, but you all make even the anarchists look like reasonable people these days.


I ask the organ grinder I get the monkeys .
You amarr are always full of opinions , normally other peoples , let them speak , or is it a case they recquire your permission first ?.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.01.11 13:02:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Kabajashi San
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
There is an gestalt image forming of the typical Minmatar and it is not a pretty one.


That of blood thirsty warriors, willing to take up any fight that seems to be right to them, ignoring the squabble others call politics and not compromising on their ideals?

I wouldn't call that pretty, more ... honest.


More an image of a blood-thristy psychotic for whom the killing has become more important than the goal.

Very close though.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.01.12 06:03:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Originally by: Renosha Argaron

Originally by: The Cosmopolite
However, you're right, what you do is nothing to us unless you actually take hostile action against us. This will include, for completeness, reporting our movements in CVA intelligence channels should you ever be admitted to them.

The Cosmopolite



I seem to recal Jade telling me that S/He informed TRI on CVA+ allies movment's on a regular basis even though TRI pilots where opeining fire on your very own corp members, Also Who PAK wish to speak to and where is there own business....what happend to your so called policy of people being "Free"?



You illustrate the point rather than counter it. CVA are hostiles, therefore we will give intelligence on their movements to anyone likely to do them harm, whether those people are friends, neutrals or enemies of ours. If they choose to make use of the information and attack people hostile to us, so much the better. We will not give intelligence on the movement of neutrals to anyone. Not to a hostile, not to another neutral, not to a friend.

So if we verifiably see that some 'neutral' is passing intel on our movements to people who are hostile, we consider it a verified hostile act and will treat them accordingly.

People are free to shoot at us so long as they understand the consequences. Similarly, they are free to pass intelligence on us to enemies so long as they understand what might happen in response.

As for the relationship of CVA and Sev3rance, all we have ever really said is that the relationship is one of master and servant. That language offends Sev3rance and the CVA will publicly deny it but ultimately one who obeys the rules of another in the knowledge that failure to do so would result in penalties being incurred is a servant at best, a slave at worst.

The Cosmopolite






Good explanation but I wonder if you should even bother. She was comparing very different things with each other, that would make no sense to someone who would think before they speak. As Azure already pointed out, the irony is stunning.

Manticore PL
Amarr
Deratization Inc.
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:59:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Kabajashi San
We come for our people.


We come for your people too, on a regular basis. We keep getting full holds every time.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2008.01.15 05:44:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Manticore PL
Originally by: Kabajashi San
We come for our people.


We come for your people too, on a regular basis. We keep getting full holds every time.


Never heard of ya !!


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