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Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2007.12.22 10:58:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 22/12/2007 20:53:59
Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 22/12/2007 20:52:59
Alright i checked everything with Eve Fiter last version 2.4 which includes the new maurader ships among other stuff.

Bottom line is: Vargur sucks!

The why is very simple.
The ship has very low PG. I mean look at the Kronos or the other maurader ships. They can fit all the high slots with tech 2 large guns of both versions short/long range without a problem. The only way to fit artileries on Vargur (with max skills) is by using 2 reactor controls tech II on the lows. Now if you do that you don't have much low slot space for much else.

I would be willing to use a rig that increases PG but even if i put one Ancilary curent router Rig + 1 reactor control to free a low slot i still can't fit the 1400 Howinzer II. So the only way to fit the tech II Arts is by using 2 reactor controls II on the lows which limits much your fiting efficiency.

The extra falloff the ship is using is welcoming but not of crucial importance since truth is that no matter how big is your fall off range when you get to falloff range you are gambling and you will miss some slots . In general your shot quality will drop. Let alone the critical shots will be very rare compaired to a Kronos for example that will always be able to hit within optimal. Considering now that the guns are only 4 and hit for double damage compaired to the Maelstorm when you miss a shot it counts double the loss!!!

Also i don;t understand why they chose to make Vargur an upgraded version of Maelstorm and not an upgraded version of Tempest. I mean while the Kronos has the bonus 25% to gun damage at lvl 5 the Vargur has only the refire rate 25% (like Maelstorm) and not 25% refire rate + 25% Damage (like the tempest) Therefore it is hard to fit hard to hit and does less damage than the Tempest. So while the Kronos and all the other ships (apart Golem which is ok but not much better than the Raven) that the maurader versions give a significant upgrade to the BS class of their corresponding races the Minmatar Vargur is actually worse than the normal minmatar BS.

For those that will say that the ship may is actlually made for lvl 4 missions and not PvP i ll add that it needs 3 RCII or 2 RCII = Auncilary Curent router Rig to be able to fit Arts and X-Large Shield Booster ( a must for lvl 4 missions not to mention that you are better with a cap Heavy Cap booster II which you can't fit even with the Rig and the 2 RCII and you will need 2 Rigs + 2RCII to fit that as well :( and you will still be tight in PG you won't be able to fit much else apart maybe Tractor Beams (so you can forget of energy Destabilisers or Vampires at the highs )

All the other mauraders are mush much better. All have something more to offer compaired to the normal BS's apart the Vargur that is plain useless.

CCP please add more PG to Vargur on the next update. (it will still be weaker than the rest but at least not a plain joke as it is today)

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.22 11:04:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 22/12/2007 11:37:22
Even with fitting mods, the Vargur is simply awesome. It can out-tank the Kronos easily, while doing great DPS at very long range (30km+) with ACs. And all that without a Crystal set. With Crystals it's tank is just simply insane.

It's a great ship. Learn how to use it.

Edit: And in regard to the whole damage/ROF bonus thing: the Tempest has 6x turrets, the Mael mounts 8. 6x turrets with a 1.25 damage mod = 7.5 turrets. The Vargur has 4x turrets with a 100% damage mod, for the equivilant of 8x turrets. With the same ROF bonus as the Mael. So it all works out just fine.

If you did 4x turrets with a 100% damage mod, a 25% ROF bonus *and* an additional 25% damage bonus, you'd be doing *way* more dps than either the Tempest or the Maelstrom, and way more DPS than any other Marauder as well.

Stop being obtuse and start focusing on the details that really matter instead of just picking and choosing what to review to support your lame attempts at justifying more grid. If you want to complain about something, complain about the sensor strength. Rolling Eyes

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.12.22 11:05:00 - [3]
 

Mostly agreed..it's a minmatar ship so it should hold to the philosophy of 'lots of guns'..a ROF + damage bonus would really make more sense...

On the PG issue..how is it with AC on? Because the faloff bonus is definetly geared towards the use of them, and not arties..

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.12.22 12:46:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 22/12/2007 12:46:14
Originally by: Sokratesz
Mostly agreed..it's a minmatar ship so it should hold to the philosophy of 'lots of guns'..a ROF + damage bonus would really make more sense...

On the PG issue..how is it with AC on? Because the faloff bonus is definetly geared towards the use of them, and not arties..


slap T2 800's and you end up with 1.5k grid to fit the rest of the mods, and it's impossible to slap even T2 1200's without fitting mods, comparing with the kronos and paladin that have over 5k grid available on neutron and MP setups, and can fit tachys and 425's respectively with no grid mods. The golem can also fit sieges comfortably, and you get oodles of fitting stats left with cruise launchers.

also falloff is nice and all (can get over 60km falloff) but in comparision with the other 3 marauders that can fit their top-tier long range guns with no hassle, the vargur kinda loses on the flexibility department, in terms of what guns you can slap on them.

the problem here, however it's not the vargur itself, but the fact that the grid usage disparity between AC's and howies is so large that it's hard to balance fittings for minmatar ships (as in fit AC's in a boat and you get oodles of grid and CPU free, even top tier ones, and fit 1400's and all of the sudden you need grid mods).

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.12.22 12:57:00 - [5]
 

In order to fix something, it needs to be broken.

Choose a better word for the thread.

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.22 13:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 22/12/2007 11:37:22
Even with fitting mods, the Vargur is simply awesome. It can out-tank the Kronos easily, while doing great DPS at very long range (30km+) with ACs. And all that without a Crystal set. With Crystals it's tank is just simply insane.

It's a great ship. Learn how to use it.




No, it doesn't do great DPS with ACs at 30km+ ... Learn to calculate DPS within falloff. Poor attempt to manipulate the market?


Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2007.12.22 15:41:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 22/12/2007 11:37:22
Even with fitting mods, the Vargur is simply awesome. It can out-tank the Kronos easily, while doing great DPS at very long range (30km+) with ACs. And all that without a Crystal set. With Crystals it's tank is just simply insane.

It's a great ship. Learn how to use it.

Edit: And in regard to the whole damage/ROF bonus thing: the Tempest has 6x turrets, the Mael mounts 8. 6x turrets with a 1.25 damage mod = 7.5 turrets. The Vargur has 4x turrets with a 100% damage mod, for the equivilant of 8x turrets. With the same ROF bonus as the Mael. So it all works out just fine.

If you did 4x turrets with a 100% damage mod, a 25% ROF bonus *and* an additional 25% damage bonus, you'd be doing *way* more dps than either the Tempest or the Maelstrom, and way more DPS than any other Marauder as well.

Stop being obtuse and start focusing on the details that really matter instead of just picking and choosing what to review to support your lame attempts at justifying more grid. If you want to complain about something, complain about the sensor strength. Rolling Eyes


No, you should stop being obuse and you should start focusing on the details that really matter. Vargur unlike all the other marauders can't fit his guns. Not in full ship fiting with all slots filled. It can't fit its guns even if the guns would be the only thing mount on the ship!

Apart from that you play nicely the role of the funboy but facts are facts and you demonstrated all these speculations here that demonstrate you have never fired an autocannon in your life. The falloff is not working as you would like to. You miss A LOT within faloff range and the best way to realise it is by playing a friendly match against a friend of yours to realise that more than half of your damage output is being wasted within the falloff range.

Besides and since you atempted to ptretend you were speaking with numbers your numbers are wrong.
Specificaly where you try to show that the Tempest does less damage than the Maelstorm you are completely wrong. The Maelstorm gives 8 guns with faster rate of fire by 25% .
The Vargur gives 4 guns x double damage aka 8 guns damage with the same bonus like Malestorm (aka 25% more fire rate) .You don't need to be a genious to realise that the Maelstorm does in paper the same damage as the Vargur. I say "in paper" cause the Vargur can't mount the quality guns the Maelstorm can mount without screwing the rest of the fit but lets leave it outside for a moment.
The Tempest you say has 6 guns x 1.25 damage =7.5 so its less than the Malestorm. Unfortunatly you FORGOT that the Tempest has 2 more high slots that can mount cruise launchers ot Siege launchers and when it does it it outpasses the Maelstorm in damage. So you were wrong.So all is NOT working out "just fine" to use your expression!

You said that if they had the Vargur have the same bonuses as the Tempest would make it overpowering and i agree with you. Anyway it has the tracking bonus which is not so bad to have . My problem was not so much the damage output as the puny powergrid. But still if you take a look at Kronos or Paladin you will clearly see they are overpowering compaired to their BS versions. Paladin adds Abadon's damage modifier with the cap bonus of the Apocalypse which is welcoming since amaar are suffering by their ships . They needed this upgrade. But look at Kronos. It has the same exact bonuses as the Megathron but being able to put guns only gains in efficiency since the "magic" with the 3 Magnetic field Stabilizers II works much better liek this but the slight damage boost is justified considering the price and the skills you need to fly that ship. On that matter Golem is not as better to Raven as Kronos and Paladin are to their correspondend BS's. but at least Golem can fit its launchers unlike Vargur that can't.


Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2007.12.22 15:45:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
In order to fix something, it needs to be broken.

Choose a better word for the thread.


It is broken and a simple test with the EFT fitter will prove it to you.

Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2007.12.22 16:04:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 22/12/2007 20:54:28
Originally by: Sokratesz
Mostly agreed..it's a minmatar ship so it should hold to the philosophy of 'lots of guns'..a ROF + damage bonus would really make more sense...

On the PG issue..how is it with AC on? Because the faloff bonus is definetly geared towards the use of them, and not arties..


With AC is somewhat better. But you would need probably to use Barrage for that . You 'd still miss a lot dependong on the foes position ship size speed etc of course too (thats lots of barrage ammo wasted but anyway.... ) The use of AC in missions can be tricky . You still won't be able to hit the smaller ships with large ACs and if you do you will do tiny damage because of signature and falloff factors. Still you will be unable to reach the ships if they are too far away from you using an AB since in deadspace you can't use a MWD (why really? Well thats another matter i bet CCP knows... :( )

Still in terms of damage and efficiency a Paladin with Pulses or a Kronos with Blasters can outdamage the Vargur but i don't know what would happen in 1 vs 1 since lots of other things matter. Let alone if you take out a Vargur to pvp solo you probably deserve the pod you will end to for a number of reasons. Still i believe a Kronos or a Paladin with their short range cannons could beat Vargur but would do it even more easily with their Beams and Railguns. So Vargur won't be so good even with ACs on . The positive is that at least it can fit those but i don't think it will shine much in efficiency both for pvp and pve.

Flurren
Posted - 2007.12.22 16:25:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Flurren on 22/12/2007 16:27:37
Zaran what you basically have to understand is that for some reason CCP designed the minmatar marauder as an exclusively autocannon ship.

Im not going to conjecture why they did this. Whether they think the ship is some sort of BS sized sleipnir/vagabond is really up to them. However it seems to me that these ships were designed for missioning and ratting where autocannons are really quite undesireable for the most part.

There is no problem with the damage of the ship in comparison to other marauders. The problem is with the powergrid and the falloff bonus which seem out of place in a ship with this role.

Frankly to my mind the bonuses on the marauders in their current state seem completely random with no rhyme or reason to them. Im not going into each respective ship since the bonuses theyve been given are so alien to me i have no idea what CCP was thinking when they designed them. Maybe a dev can shine some light on just what their intention was? Perhaps it was simply being awkward...

EDIT: You are right that the kronos and paladin seem specifically designed to nullify the vargurs falloff bonus with their ridiculous webbing ability. This seems to suggest that the vargur is indeed supposed to be flown like a vagabond with its perfect bonuses for this role. Its sad that the devs cant come up with anything innovative for minmatar and simply fall back on speed and falloff as our main advantages.

P.S. dont make thread titles in caps, it makes you look like a noob.

Horza Otho
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.22 16:31:00 - [11]
 

Don't you realize? We as Minmatar need to use our racial speed bonus obviously... quit being obtuse.

ugh

Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.12.22 16:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Mostly agreed..it's a minmatar ship so it should hold to the philosophy of 'lots of guns'..a ROF + damage bonus would really make more sense...

On the PG issue..how is it with AC on? Because the faloff bonus is definetly geared towards the use of them, and not arties..


So are you telling us that we should go AC when all mauroders are designed to at least fit four of the highest caliber longe range guns and a bit off a thank.

Maybe if people used AC ships ,and knew how faloff trully works Sad,because at the edge of the falloff it cuts your DPS ...

Flurren
Posted - 2007.12.22 16:44:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Flurren on 22/12/2007 16:45:36
My problem with autocannons is they seem to directly contradict the ammo saving philosophy of the ships.

The web bonuses on the paladin and the kronos are unnecessary when combined with the tracking bonus. It should be one or the other. Both seems to be, as the word is apparently becoming popular, "obtuse".

The target painting bonus of the golem complements its missiles nicely however i dont really understand the point of explosion velocity bonus since when is this ship going to be fighting others that go over 1km/s?

Coming back to the vargur the only way i can think of using it is kiting other BS sized ships outside of web range although this seems like a ridiculous use for such a big ship vulnerable to tacklers and not really capable of the insane speeds of its smaller counterparts which also costs a rather large fortune even without fittings.

As i said, each marauder has at least one bonus that doesnt really make sense and with the vargur the entire concept is flawed. Battleships are made to tank, gank and in some cases use EW. They will never be fast or agile compared to anything but themselves so such a ship geared for mobility will be useless in any situation where something that can tackle them for any length of time is present.

EDIT: Summary - make the vargur into a sniping boat possibly with the same web bonus as the kronos and paladin instead of falloff and and give it more powergrid.

xXHeRoInERaBBiTXx
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.23 03:17:00 - [14]
 

i knew the vargur was gonna be a piece of **** the day its stats were realeased, the second its tackled in a large lvl 4 or ded space site its gonna be screwed, acs are useless in missions and grid is far to low to make a viable setup, i like the 4 turrets but need more grid and a shift to armor tank with more dmg bonuses and less tank bonus or just make it so it can field 5 heavys.....increased grid with 5 heavys would make it very usefull

and by increased grid i dont mean to arti capable just enough to fit a decent tank

falloff is great in pvp...it sucks in pve...

get a clue ccp fix this broken ship

ill probobly buy one and save it for the day it gets fixedEvil or Very Mad

Bager Gray
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.12.23 03:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Horza Otho
Don't you realize? We as Minmatar need to use our racial speed bonus obviously... quit being obtuse.

ugh


Not sure if hes being sarcastic but that does seem to be a good idea. Fit for speed and fight in your falloff, typical minmatar.

Liisa
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.23 03:49:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Bager Gray
Originally by: Horza Otho
Don't you realize? We as Minmatar need to use our racial speed bonus obviously... quit being obtuse.

ugh


Not sure if hes being sarcastic but that does seem to be a good idea. Fit for speed and fight in your falloff, typical minmatar.


For PvE??

Flurren
Posted - 2007.12.23 03:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: xX******ERaBBiTXx
i knew the vargur was gonna be a piece of **** the day its stats were realeased, the second its tackled in a large lvl 4 or ded space site its gonna be screwed, acs are useless in missions and grid is far to low to make a viable setup, i like the 4 turrets but need more grid and a shift to armor tank with more dmg bonuses and less tank bonus or just make it so it can field 5 heavys.....increased grid with 5 heavys would make it very usefull

and by increased grid i dont mean to arti capable just enough to fit a decent tank

falloff is great in pvp...it sucks in pve...

get a clue ccp fix this broken ship

ill probobly buy one and save it for the day it gets fixedEvil or Very Mad



Its fine with its current tanking and damage bonuses. It just needs its falloff changed to web effect and more PG. Who cares if it makes marauders samey, virtually no-one has the option of flying more than one anyway.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2007.12.23 04:01:00 - [18]
 

You guys are really missing the point of the Vargur. You see, you're supposed to fit it with cargo expanders and tractor beams and do the mission in a Maelstrom or Tempest.

The Vargur is for post-mission cleanup. Silly Carebears. -_-

-Liang

Flurren
Posted - 2007.12.23 04:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You guys are really missing the point of the Vargur. You see, you're supposed to fit it with cargo expanders and tractor beams and do the mission in a Maelstrom or Tempest.

The Vargur is for post-mission cleanup. Silly Carebears. -_-

-Liang


Was that really necessary liang? I swear, its like you have tourett's in forum form -.-

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2007.12.23 04:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Flurren
Originally by: Liang Nuren
You guys are really missing the point of the Vargur. You see, you're supposed to fit it with cargo expanders and tractor beams and do the mission in a Maelstrom or Tempest.

The Vargur is for post-mission cleanup. Silly Carebears. -_-

-Liang


Was that really necessary liang? I swear, its like you have tourett's in forum form -.-


Sure it was. ;-) At any rate, its ridiculously low PG combined with the recent module size nerf makes it quite clear that it's the best use of the ship is post-mission cleanup.

-Liang

Bager Gray
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.12.23 04:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You guys are really missing the point of the Vargur. You see, you're supposed to fit it with cargo expanders and tractor beams and do the mission in a Maelstrom or Tempest.

The Vargur is for post-mission cleanup. Silly Carebears. -_-

-Liang


Dont forget the salvagers... cant properly clean up a mission without them.

Flurren
Posted - 2007.12.23 04:12:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Flurren
Originally by: Liang Nuren
You guys are really missing the point of the Vargur. You see, you're supposed to fit it with cargo expanders and tractor beams and do the mission in a Maelstrom or Tempest.

The Vargur is for post-mission cleanup. Silly Carebears. -_-

-Liang


Was that really necessary liang? I swear, its like you have tourett's in forum form -.-


Sure it was. ;-) At any rate, its ridiculously low PG combined with the recent module size nerf makes it quite clear that it's the best use of the ship is post-mission cleanup.

-Liang


Well... at least itd give you something to do all day when theres no pvp to be had - Making back all that money you spent on a larger version of the thrasher :).

Kiva Ki
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.23 05:13:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:51
Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:31
Learn to fit new ships properly instead of trying to clone old ship fittings onto a new ship.

And yes, I actually fly this fit right now, this isn't just EFT warrioring. EFT numbers are here as a general indication of performance, and should be viewed in terms of practical application in the same way all EFT fits are.

Hi Slots -

4x 800mm II ACs
1x Large Smart Bomb
2x Tractor Beam

Mid Slots -

1x Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Gist A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
2x Cap Recharger II

Low Slots -

3x Gyrostabalizer
1x Power Diagnostic II
1x Capacitor Flux Coil II

Rigs -

Capacitor Control Circuit
Projectile Ambit Extension

(If you really must have an Afterburner, then you can drop either a cap recharger or an invul field, and slap a Gist A-Type 100mn AB on there. If you drop the invul field, you'll need to swap the Flux for another PDS. If you drop the cap recharger, you'll want to swap the Ambit rig for another cap rig.)

With good skills, all the above fits including alternate fits are cap stable with the hardeners and the shield booster.

In the end you get (with the primary fit)

Damage:

Peak of around 600 dps with Fusion L, with a 33km Falloff, with better tracking than any Minmatar BS, plus around 200 dps in drones. Ability to switch to 50km falloff using barrage when necessary. General Minmatar damage type flexibility.

Large Smart Bomb for frigate detail

Tank:

Approximately 1200 dps sustained tank, with 10k shields and an average of 75% shield resists.

General:

2 tractor beams with double range and speed, and 2x the cargo bay. 4 guns means half the ammo of an AC maelstrom, which comes close to compensating for increased ammo use of AC over Arty.

Price: Considering you shelled out 700-900 mil isk for the ship, mod prices aren't bad. A-Type is significantly cheaper than X-Type and gets the job done. Money saved from that downgrade easily allows for use of Caldari hardeners etc.
-----------------------

Is it as good as a faction fit CNR? Meh, maybe not. But it's Minmatar. You just won't get another Minmatar ship to come close to that kind of effective dps while sustaining that kind of tank as well. Not being a lame Caldari ship makes the Vargur worth it all by itself.

Sure I'd be happy to see random buffs to it, but I would HATE to see it turned into an Arty boat. We already have the Tempest and the Maelstrom, both good arty boats. We really don't need a 3rd. Whatever happens, keep the falloff bonus.

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.23 05:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kiva Ki
Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:51
Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:31
Learn to fit new ships properly instead of trying to clone old ship fittings onto a new ship.

And yes, I actually fly this fit right now, this isn't just EFT warrioring. EFT numbers are here as a general indication of performance, and should be viewed in terms of practical application in the same way all EFT fits are.

Hi Slots -

4x 800mm II ACs
1x Large Smart Bomb
2x Tractor Beam

Mid Slots -

1x Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Gist A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
2x Cap Recharger II

Low Slots -

3x Gyrostabalizer
1x Power Diagnostic II
1x Capacitor Flux Coil II

Rigs -

Capacitor Control Circuit
Projectile Ambit Extension



It's a good thing all pilots have over 4b in pocket change or that would simply be a ridiculously bad example of a ship setup.

Zana Kito
Posted - 2007.12.23 05:55:00 - [25]
 

Devs stated that they do not want to increase the grid on varg because the AC/Arty grid requirement are so far apart. If the varg had grid to fit arties, then it can fit AC and neuts/nos/reps whatever in the other high slots.. would make it overpowered for pvp.. apparently thats their view.

How can a ship with crap sensor strength and a 1B price tag that barely outperforms t1 bses be overpowered?

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.23 05:55:00 - [26]
 

Frankly I agree. This ship should not be limited to only using ACs. It needs more Pwr.

Why does it need to be able to fit Artillery? you ask

The simplest way I can answer that question is that all the other Marauders can. (and so can a Maelstrom)

It doesn't matter how much it can tank or how much damage it can do but if a ship can't use both weapon variants while the other ships of it's class can then there is a problem.

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.23 05:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Zana Kito
Devs stated that they do not want to increase the grid on varg because the AC/Arty grid requirement are so far apart. If the varg had grid to fit arties, then it can fit AC and neuts/nos/reps whatever in the other high slots.. would make it overpowered for pvp.. apparently thats their view.

How can a ship with crap sensor strength and a 1B price tag that barely outperforms t1 bses be overpowered?


Ya but all the other marauders already can fit nos/neut/reps on other high slots.

Zana Kito
Posted - 2007.12.23 06:06:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: HarryManback
Originally by: Zana Kito
Devs stated that they do not want to increase the grid on varg because the AC/Arty grid requirement are so far apart. If the varg had grid to fit arties, then it can fit AC and neuts/nos/reps whatever in the other high slots.. would make it overpowered for pvp.. apparently thats their view.

How can a ship with crap sensor strength and a 1B price tag that barely outperforms t1 bses be overpowered?


Ya but all the other marauders already can fit nos/neut/reps on other high slots.


They can't, not after fitting weapons and tank. No grid. Well, it's offlined for overheat abuse. But that's besides the point. Doesn't matter if the varg could fit all that and ac/tank, it will still be the suck in pvp for the obvious reasons.

Hence, devs are wrong to gimp it's grid.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.23 07:59:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: HarryManback
Originally by: Kiva Ki
Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:51
Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 05:28:31
Learn to fit new ships properly instead of trying to clone old ship fittings onto a new ship.

And yes, I actually fly this fit right now, this isn't just EFT warrioring. EFT numbers are here as a general indication of performance, and should be viewed in terms of practical application in the same way all EFT fits are.

Hi Slots -

4x 800mm II ACs
1x Large Smart Bomb
2x Tractor Beam

Mid Slots -

1x Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Gist A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
2x Cap Recharger II

Low Slots -

3x Gyrostabalizer
1x Power Diagnostic II
1x Capacitor Flux Coil II

Rigs -

Capacitor Control Circuit
Projectile Ambit Extension



It's a good thing all pilots have over 4b in pocket change or that would simply be a ridiculously bad example of a ship setup.


Players who fly ships like these (Marauders) in PVP do so because they can. I fly my Kronos in PVP because I'm bored as hell with other stuff. Is it risky? Extremely. Is my ship full of faction stuff? You bet.

There are plenty of people out there that can afford to fly big ISK setups. IMO if you don't have a full set of HG slaves or crystals and some nice faction mods, you shouldn't be flying these ships in PVP anyway.

Kiva Ki
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.23 08:19:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Kiva Ki on 23/12/2007 08:22:19
Originally by: HarryManback
It's a good thing all pilots have over 4b in pocket change or that would simply be a ridiculously bad example of a ship setup.


If you can't afford the fitting I mentioned, you have no business flying a marauder.

If you fit an 800mil isk ship with t1 mods, no wonder you think it's too expensive for what it does.

Also, my post was obviously a PvE fit. I use it for high end 0.0 exploration complexes.

I have a second Vargur for PvP, and the fit is very different.


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