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Tiamax
Posted - 2007.12.15 15:42:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Tiamax on 15/12/2007 15:43:27
Sorry, hit the button before i could post text.

Is mining worth it to generate money? I make about 600k-1mill on level 1 missions with salvaging, but i really want to try mining, especially glacial mining. Is it worth it to do?

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2007.12.15 16:59:00 - [2]
 

Regular ores will usually pay more per hour than Ice will. (Rare eceptions may present theselves) For Ice Mining, you'll need a Barge or an Exhumer. (Macks are best for Ice) For regular ores, the Hulk is best, but you can mine with almost any ship.

Outside of Corp mining ops, I'll usually only mine when I need the minerals or just want to veg a while. (Well-fit Hulk in high-sec...good mining ability with enough tank to survive a misguided suicide gank attempt [I hope])

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2007.12.15 17:33:00 - [3]
 

To be honest, i made way more money per hour doing lvl.4 missions then in my covetor mining Kernite (with Stripminer IIs).

That was before my passive shield tanking Myrmidon took a shield nerf and a drone nerf, not that i'm complaining, i just cant do them anymore in my setup.

Even doing lvl.3 missions makes more money the mining...

On the other hand, you can afk mine resonably well in highsec.

Kobushi
Posted - 2007.12.15 19:22:00 - [4]
 

yes Lvl4 are better then a convey but do you know how does it fare against a hulk?

Gethinlane
Posted - 2007.12.16 14:26:00 - [5]
 

A hulk mining in High Sec, will be able to fill an expanded cargo hold of 18000m3 in about 15-20 minutes depending on skill and fit.

To use Veld as an example, it takes 0.1m3 of space, therefore a hulk could get 180,000m3 in 15-20mins

That will sell for around 1.8 million

So you could make around 6 to 8 million an hour

However I run level 3's in a drake, and I make around 10 million an hour.

But mining with a hulk is much easier, as you can do it AFK.


rodney119
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.16 15:33:00 - [6]
 

Mining ore itself can be rewarding in a covetor or Hulk to make money off selling the minerals themselves without manufacturing.

If you look into manufacturing then the amount you can make can be vastly increased..up to 500mil from 3 tier 3 battleships.

Maybe start off small to start off with but once your able to mine enough mining for BC's of BS's then the money can be sudden. i made 200mil in one day the other day and I'm currently making 3 Hyperions to sell.

Enden Assulu
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.16 20:42:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tiamax
Edited by: Tiamax on 15/12/2007 15:43:27
Sorry, hit the button before i could post text.

Is mining worth it to generate money? I make about 600k-1mill on level 1 missions with salvaging, but i really want to try mining, especially glacial mining. Is it worth it to do?


Mining is really good ISK (well the ores are anyway) you will probably want a retriever which isn't that skill intensive a retriever will mine both Ice (with ice ming I or something like that) and ore making stuff i.e ammunition is very good money.
NOTE: Ice ming may look cool but is a serious waste of time unless your in a mackianw which is the ONLY ship to mine ice in.
(Probably confused you even more)

Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.16 21:07:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Enden Assulu
Ice ming may look cool but is a serious waste of time unless your in a mackianw which is the ONLY ship to mine ice in.
(Probably confused you even more)
Any time any place 1 on 1 I will outmine your Mack in a Hulk (ice). Gangs with dedicated haulers? Last time I looked at the numbers you needed 3-4 Macks + a hauler to outmine same number of Hulks.

Just to clarify: by mining I don't mean max theoretical output into your hold. I mean ore or ice in your hangar. Safe from ore thieves etc. Hulk is the ultimate mining machine with max output for minimum hassle.

Alezia Fireblazer
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2007.12.17 03:30:00 - [9]
 

Well the problem to this question is it is way to conditional. In high sec L4 missions will be much better isk, than mining kernite. Theoretically with a hulk in god mode (max command ship bonus, perfect skills, perfect drone skills, and implants) including no hauling, you can make about 20mil a hour. A nub in a raven can make that much in high sec with minimal sp compared to the hulk pilot.

(by the way low sec ores (if you are looking for cash) are worthless)

It all changes when you get into 0.0. Hulk becomes king, compared to high sec mission running where you can peak at almost 60 mil a hour mining crock, with god mode (alot easier to get god mode in 0.0 for obvious reasons). High sec mission runners in there navy ravens with billions in fittings, and awesome skills, can usually make 40mil a hour.

(don't want to get into pirate mission running)

To the person who posted before me mackinav can mine 4 ice max per cycle and hulk can mine 3. 4>3, Hulks do have a beautiful tank but anyone who is mining ice for cash, and isnt a isk farmer will have protection.


Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2007.12.17 05:37:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 21/12/2007 21:35:28

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2007.12.17 05:39:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 17/12/2007 05:39:16
(double post removed)

Helix Fluxx
Caldari
Contempo Enterprises
Posted - 2007.12.17 05:45:00 - [12]
 

With the market rpices of even the stuff you can mine in hi-sec these days, if you've got the time to mine, and you've got the standings and the skills to reduce refinery wastage to 0, it's worth the time to generate that ISK.

It does need a longer commitment in terms of time spent, and initial investment in skills and equipment to make it really worth while. However, if you spend a few hours mining out a high-sec belt of whatever ores, by the time you're refined them, you should be able to make a very decent profit on the markets. It's worth allowing your stocks to build up over a period of time, then sell in bulk. The income levels are more than enough to cover the potential income from level 1 missions (although salvaging is a different kettle of fish altogether) done during the same time.

By the way, I'm recruiting miners and mission runners. Look me up in game.

Jonny Scrugg
Caldari
Oracle Phoenix
Posted - 2007.12.17 10:30:00 - [13]
 

I have different moods. One day I'd rather sit and mine while doing other things like surfing the forums. On other days I want to run some missions and see what I can get. I have multiple ships equipped for mining, hauling, pvp and salvaging. I just swap ships and go. Seems pretty easy to me.

gnomer
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.12.18 03:44:00 - [14]
 

Kessian

Impossible to make 10-15 mill in high sec.

Show me your math. I have hulk with strip II's, exhumer IV and tech 2 crystals and the best I can make is about 8-10 mill an hour on the 10% rocks for plag and veld.

Hie Loe
Gallente
Intergalactic Science LLC
Posted - 2007.12.18 05:17:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Hie Loe on 18/12/2007 05:18:00
Originally by: gnomer
Kessian

Impossible to make 10-15 mill in high sec.

Show me your math. I have hulk with strip II's, exhumer IV and tech 2 crystals and the best I can make is about 8-10 mill an hour on the 10% rocks for plag and veld.



Also, he says he does that in a retriever. Please.

Using a covetor with a hauling alt and a huge belt all to myself, I can make about 6 million an hour on scordite and veld in a .9 system. Move up to plag or pyroxeres, that can get to about 8. If I moved up to a hulk I could probably push it to 10. Kernite would be more profitable of course, but then you have rat issues and usually competition in the belts. Oddly, although omber is not as profitable, less people mine it these days so you don't have to move around as much. Your goal is to keep those strippers stripping and reduce down time.



HL

Darqion Zenix
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:10:00 - [16]
 

My hulk is nearing "strip" completion :P Meaning the max yield he could get ganged with my hauler on the strips alone.. and i make 6-8 mill and hour on mostly plagio and scordite

Mining could be well worth it, if you just want a change of pace for instance.. or like has been said, go look into manufacturing later on.

I never really felt i make alot of money doing lvl 3 missions, but i never really kept track how much i made :P anyway i only use it after a day of missions to cool down

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.18 14:13:00 - [17]
 

I have to ask it...
Is it worth to use T1 cristals + Strip II in highsec? It gives a little bonus to base yield but it consumes a lot of Nocxium...
thanks for the answer, i cant determine it myself cause i don't know the lifespan of a mining cristal

Pavachek Secundus
The Serenity Society
Posted - 2007.12.18 21:53:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Pavachek Secundus on 18/12/2007 21:58:18
Edited by: Pavachek Secundus on 18/12/2007 21:57:30
Originally by: gnomer
Kessian

Impossible to make 10-15 mill in high sec.

Show me your math. I have hulk with strip II's, exhumer IV and tech 2 crystals and the best I can make is about 8-10 mill an hour on the 10% rocks for plag and veld.



I would also be interested in Kessian's math. With skills and gear identical to those listed above, my last high sec mining op made 9.19M/hr actual.

To answer the OP's question: Yes, mining is worth it. Isk/hr. calculations aside (I only bother to calculate when somone's felonious math threatens to derail a thread/convo anyway), the mining profession will eventually lead you to train production, science, and trade skills which can double, treble, or exponentially increase the isk you can make killing roids. There's alot of satisfaciton in placing a sell order for items that you've built using a BPO that you researched and minerals that you refined from the ore that you personally mined and hauled. Self-sufficient industrialists are far more profitable in the long run than most people would admit.

Dagle
Minmatar
Knights Of The Void
Posted - 2007.12.20 03:41:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Dagle on 20/12/2007 03:46:11
Well I'm not Kessian, but...it's not impossible to make 10-15 mill in high sec.

I'm a hulk pilot, exhumer v, +5% bonus implant (Highwall HX-2), Mining Foreman V. I'm not in game so this is not exact, but I pull in 5,330-5,350 m^3 per cycle. So that's around 106,800 m^3 per hour. Plagiocase is worth 102 isk/m3 based on the current prices that I get (which is not max rate as I sell at a discount to corp). So doing the math, that's about 10.9m per hour.

Now if you add in the second +5% implant (Michi Excavation Augmentator), that will push your yield up to 11.4m per hour (~5,605 m^3 per cycle).

Additionally, there is a command ship bonus that I don't know the exact figures on that can reduce your cycle time, I think it is 2% per level of Mining Director (should give an extra 2+ cycles per hour) which is a 10% boost, putting us at 12.7m

And lets not forget the Mining Foreman Mindlink which I don't know all the effects of but I do believe it would replace the Highwall HX-2 and give a 15% boost instead of a 5% boost and also boosts the Mining Foreman skill bonus by 50% (from 10 to 15% I believe). I think that if I've done my math correctly that puts the yield at 14.6m per hour.

So, my numbers are probably off by a little bit...but they're not off by 6m per hour.

I don't know Kessian nor do I know what he has in his head or his set up, but 10-15m is very achievable particularly on the mid to low end of that range. Plagiocase isn't exactly rare.

Sorbison Kraz
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:36:00 - [20]
 

The fly in the ointment is the size of the roids in hi sec.

It's all very well to be getting xyz an hour based on your t2 strip miners, t2 crystals, hulk at lvl V, 2x t2 mining laser upgrades, Highwall implant, foreman V (and perhaps even a gang mate with mining director V running the appropriate cycle reduction mod and mind link), but the fact is not many people will be mining at that level and also paying attention to the results of a roid scanner every 2-3 mins. I would say that most peeps mining at the top level of skills will just strip mine everything. When it pops a new roid is targeted.

There is therefore a huge loss of potential efficiency with 2:40 - 3 minute cycle times regularly returning much less than they are capable of simply because there is not enough ore in the roid. Mining mission sites can provide better efficiency but it's still nowhere near 100%.

So, whilst a theoretical return could well even be in excess of 15m/hr, it is, in reality, likely to be in the region of 10m-12m (skill and set up dependent). No two 1hr outings are ever likely to return the same amounts of ore and I would submit it is impossible to apply exact mathmatics to the question.

Ice mining on the other hand is likely to be much more constant as it's pretty rare for the ice to pop. Therefore, whilst not as valuable you are likely to make a comparable amount.

I may be wrong and advanced miners may stay glued to the roid scanner to get those few extra % efficiency but I doubt it...you'd have to be pretty anal to have the patience to do that for a long time.

Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Gethinlane
A hulk mining in High Sec, will be able to fill an expanded cargo hold of 18000m3 in about 15-20 minutes depending on skill and fit.

To use Veld as an example, it takes 0.1m3 of space, therefore a hulk could get 180,000m3 in 15-20mins

That will sell for around 1.8 million

So you could make around 6 to 8 million an hour

However I run level 3's in a drake, and I make around 10 million an hour.

But mining with a hulk is much easier, as you can do it AFK.




This is accurate. Missions are much much more profitable, I run level 4s and use my alt to salvage and haul all loot, but mission running is much more involved then mining. You can afk 15 minutes at a time while mining, but have to actively play to mission run.

Pavachek Secundus
The Serenity Society
Posted - 2007.12.20 17:11:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Pavachek Secundus on 20/12/2007 17:20:03
Originally by: Dagle
Excellent post


The only problem is that Kessian said he was doing it in a Retriever. :P

Originally by: Sorbison Kraz
I may be wrong and advanced miners may stay glued to the roid scanner to get those few extra % efficiency but I doubt it...you'd have to be pretty anal to have the patience to do that for a long time.


No, you're right. Most miners, even at the highest levels, spend more time afk than minding their op. I am one of those that uses the scanner and rarely goes afk. I can tell you that since the efficiency boost you get from staying at your comp means you can pull in quite a few extra cans a week, you quickly develop the patience to sit there and watch the roids go 'round.

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2007.12.20 17:32:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Pwett on 20/12/2007 21:32:15
Originally by: Sorbison Kraz
The fly in the ointment is the size of the roids in hi sec.


That, my mining friends is the key.

Now, for comparisons, I get into AFK mining moods - Hulk with t1 strips, cargo expanders, cargo rigs, no drones. Something to do at work, or while I'm playing SoTS with some corpmates, etc. Anyway. I can mine out an average sized system between respawns (Friday and Monday for me) and it nets me enough trit-nocx to build a tier 2 BS. So about 50 mil-ish. Now, if I go into God Mining mode, which I am capable of, I can do that same system in about 5 hours.

The biggest Veldspar asteroid you will ever find is only good enough for two cans. (Tested this in two off-grid belts in 0.0 that I allowed to grow for 7 months). You can Average 10 mil an hour in high-sec, no problem. But that's average. That's some lucky days of 20 mil and a some unlucky days of 5.

In negative-sec (-0.8 to -1.0) you can damn well near average 1 mil per minute. So that's pretty much your bounds.

All things being equal-
High sec: 1:12::isk:time
True-1.0: 1:1::isk:time

gnomer
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.12.20 21:08:00 - [24]
 

Few more points:

1. Watching the scanner is painful. You need a rock that will mine for the FULL 3 minutes, so takes time to locate a few in range. Typically if I only mine veld I will have to move belts after 3 runs. This also lowers the hourly rate. Theoretical and actual are always way off. All the implants and mining director etc = 500M + ISK

2. With a Hulk above 0.6sec, using shield amplifiers you don't even need to take out the drones, or run a shield booster. The rats don't do enough damage to bother you.

3. For true easy AFK mining, mine Ice. Get Ice harvesting V, exhumer IV and use tech II ice harvesters. Put 2 expander II's on a Mack that gives you 8126m3 of cargo space or 2 runs of ice. Get the +3% ice implant and you will get 8 ice blocks every 13 minutes, and roid never pops. Just run back to station drop off, rinse.. repeat.

With blue ice at about 150K ISK per block that is 1.2 million every run, around 5-6 million ISK per hr all AFK mining and very little work.

Dagle
Minmatar
Knights Of The Void
Posted - 2007.12.21 01:36:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Dagle on 21/12/2007 01:39:11
Edited by: Dagle on 21/12/2007 01:38:51
never mind

Minerva Moore
Posted - 2007.12.21 16:29:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tiamax
Edited by: Tiamax on 15/12/2007 15:43:27
Is mining worth it to generate money? I make about 600k-1mill on level 1 missions with salvaging, but i really want to try mining, especially glacial mining. Is it worth it to do?


I don't understand the purpose of questions like this.
If you "really wanna try mining", try mining already.
Get a mining ship and a laser, go out to a belt and mine some.
Compare to the missions you run. It'll take you less than an hour total, including reading up on mining, and you will have an experience to base your decision on rather than forum replies.

And btw, the answer to your exact question should be obvious. Half of eve is bloody mining so what do you think?

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.21 19:41:00 - [27]
 

no

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2007.12.21 20:11:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 21/12/2007 21:35:43

Kitome Nakatashi
Posted - 2007.12.21 21:46:00 - [29]
 

1) A mining director w/ mindlink can increase your yield 29%. Although this is rare in empire space. You can still train Mining Foreman V for some bonus if you have a fleet.
2) Don't forget MLU IIs and Mining Drone 2s. They will increase your yield as well.
3. Ore scanners. Use them. An ore scanner will greatly reduce your lost time by tracking how long you need to active your lasers on the rock.

-Kitome

Darqion Zenix
Posted - 2007.12.21 22:53:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Dagle
Edited by: Dagle on 20/12/2007 03:46:11

And lets not forget the Mining Foreman Mindlink which I don't know all the effects of but I do believe it would replace the Highwall HX-2 and give a 15% boost instead of a 5% boost and also boosts the Mining Foreman skill bonus by 50% (from 10 to 15% I believe). I think that if I've done my math correctly that puts the yield at 14.6m per hour.


I believe thats not how the foreman bonus works... you made it into 2 parts, but its the same bonus you talk about... The 15% notices IS the 15% you get after adding 50% on the 10% bonus you got from the skill. best way when working with a friend is you having the highwall, and your friend sitting in a BC (or whatever) with a foreman implant...

But anyway yea... with a decently optimised hulk, including drones, you could be at or near 6K yield a cycle .. maybe more :P


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