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blankseplocked *Another* nerf to pirates. GG CCP.
 
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Awox
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2007.12.12 11:54:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Xtro 2
The legend known as World Of EveCraft continues.

This.

Kamazani
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.12.12 13:22:00 - [32]
 

Dunno what you guys see on the pirate end, but when a Church helios lands in my mission less than a minute after their gang entered local.....just how much faster do you want probing to be?

Tal Nok
Amarr
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.12 14:44:00 - [33]
 

I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one.

I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins. YARRRR!!

Lavraen
Animus Furandi
Posted - 2007.12.12 14:48:00 - [34]
 

No flame intended.

You can work around it. It's not all bad. You just have to adapt.

Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Posted - 2007.12.12 14:54:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Grunanca
The fact that mission runners are so hard to probe is just good... Makes more come in, and fit stabs less often. now that you cant see how far people are in missions, you will just have to stay around more to see when people leave for the mission.

I have killed 3 mission runners the last 12 hours, one was a raven 11.6 AU away I hit with a 20AU probe. got in 45km from him. It is doable if you have the patience.


This.

Patience is key, whether probing or belt hunting but it is alive and kicking. Just ask our local isk farmers.
All of my hits recently have been with 20 AU probes.

Lord Zoran
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.12.12 14:55:00 - [36]
 

real pirates get over nerfs YARRRR!!


Ulstan
Posted - 2007.12.12 15:25:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 12/12/2007 15:29:47
Awesome. Now if only we can get secure cargo cans to not show up on the long range scanner as well. That would clear out 80% of the clutter.

As for people whining: adapt. Use a recon ship if you want up to date info on where your target is in the mission progrsesion. Not that hard. I'm sorry your trivially easy source of intelligence dried up. Not like you can't still probe him or his drones down.


Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2007.12.12 16:45:00 - [38]
 

Im so confused as to why this makes piracy more difficult. You enter system, find a likely spot, do a 360 degree scan. Bingo, a few ships pop up. One begins to narrow down their scan range and find a ship of choice at whatever angle they detect it on. IF it isnt at a belt, planet, or station hugging, you'll now require probes....

So you drop probes and hope they break the SS and / or mission....

Where did wrecks play into this ? Seriously ? I'm not looking for wrecks, Im looking for the ship.

Angela Goethrella
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.12.12 17:12:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Radcjk
Im so confused as to why this makes piracy more difficult. You enter system, find a likely spot, do a 360 degree scan. Bingo, a few ships pop up. One begins to narrow down their scan range and find a ship of choice at whatever angle they detect it on. IF it isnt at a belt, planet, or station hugging, you'll now require probes....

So you drop probes and hope they break the SS and / or mission....

Where did wrecks play into this ? Seriously ? I'm not looking for wrecks, Im looking for the ship.


For those who are a bit dense..I'll break down the fourth wall..

You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo.

Also, given the sizes of rats that are being produced, is he a nub doing a LVL2 mission in that CNR? Or is he doing a full on drone plex that if I pop my drones out the whole room will aggro?

It's all about the info. The more you have, the easier it will be to pwn that officer pimped out mission running ship.

Take some time out to search for some of Murder One's posts about probing missions. They're classic and informative.

I hope this has been educational. It should have been fairly obvious, but do you get it now?

Scyths
Gallente
Fracked Inc
Posted - 2007.12.12 17:37:00 - [40]
 

Lots more probes are going to be used Laughing

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2007.12.12 18:05:00 - [41]
 

This is a nerf to carebears too.

Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out.

These smart carebears had an unfair advantage over all stupid carebears which allowed them to run missions in lowsec without getting blown up all the time. Likewise, smart pirates had an unfair advantage over stupid pirates because they used to scan for wrecks and do what some other posters already explained in enough detail.

This is not a nerf to pirates! It is a nerf to the one and only overpowered ability in every multiplayer game that has ever been out there: The ability to use your brain to understand game mechanics and use them to your advantage over stupid (sometimes also called "casual") players who think that gaming is, like watching talk shows on TV, an activity where you can shut down your brain after what you think has been a hard day of work (most "casual players" have no idea because they are probably as lazy in real life as they are in games).

Like all nerfs of this kind, it will be a failure. Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics. Stupid players will continue to cry for more nerfs and force the devs to turn the game more and more into ****. It's sad but it will happen. I've seen it happen to another good PVP game, and I'm now starting to relalized that I've jumped on another sinking ship.

Unfortunately it's still the best sinking ship that has not sunk yet, so don't ask me for my stuff. Thank you.

Zhaine
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.12.12 18:35:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tal Nok
I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one.

I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins. YARRRR!!



This.

Lavraen
Animus Furandi
Posted - 2007.12.12 18:39:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Feilamya
This is a nerf to carebears too.

Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out.

These smart carebears had an unfair advantage over all stupid carebears which allowed them to run missions in lowsec without getting blown up all the time. Likewise, smart pirates had an unfair advantage over stupid pirates because they used to scan for wrecks and do what some other posters already explained in enough detail.

This is not a nerf to pirates! It is a nerf to the one and only overpowered ability in every multiplayer game that has ever been out there: The ability to use your brain to understand game mechanics and use them to your advantage over stupid (sometimes also called "casual") players who think that gaming is, like watching talk shows on TV, an activity where you can shut down your brain after what you think has been a hard day of work (most "casual players" have no idea because they are probably as lazy in real life as they are in games).

Like all nerfs of this kind, it will be a failure. Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics. Stupid players will continue to cry for more nerfs and force the devs to turn the game more and more into ****. It's sad but it will happen. I've seen it happen to another good PVP game, and I'm now starting to relalized that I've jumped on another sinking ship.

Unfortunately it's still the best sinking ship that has not sunk yet, so don't ask me for my stuff. Thank you.


SWG BH perchance?

Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2007.12.12 19:51:00 - [44]
 

Oh yeah, I'm used to general PvP and ship hunting, as opposed to finding suckers and making sure my ships fittings and the situation are 100% in my favor before Ill make a move. Forgot about that.

Ulstan
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:44:00 - [45]
 

Quote:
You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo.


This. Which is blatantly unfair of course, and provides far too much information for far too little effort to the pirate. Can a mission runner use his scanner to find out what the pirate is using? Nope. Not like a pvp fitted pirate ship needs any further advantage over a pve fitted mission running ship, which is why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this change were deliberate.

Quote:
This is a nerf to carebears too.

Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out.


While true, how on earth is wrecks not showing up on scanners a nerf to carebear mission runners? I think you've made quite the leap of logic there.


Infinity111
Amarr
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:52:00 - [46]
 

yes this was needed and i give my full support to decision to do it. ugh

Akane Miyamoto
Habitual Euthanasia
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:37:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Zhaine
Originally by: Tal Nok
I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one.

I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins. YARRRR!!



This.

What these two fine ladies said.

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:47:00 - [48]
 

While nice knowing what type of rats a mission runner is fighting, and knowing how many potential rats are left in belt etc this is a long shot imo.

It hasn't changed my abilities to probe mission runners at all. Hasn't changed belt piracy.

There are a few minor effects. Like seeing a cane and a player cruiser wreck in belt would give you the info that the cane is probably a pirate.

But meh... seriously.

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2007.12.12 23:14:00 - [49]
 

Wrecks also made it easier to distinguish ships parked at safes from ships in missions. The prober knew which probe that was the right one to use for the job.
Now one might try to get within 4 Au from a ship to use the "missionprobes" to find a ship parked at a SS because said prober might assume that he's doing a mission.
Or, one might assume that the missionrunner is parked at a safe and therefor run a few "SS-probes"... which suck at finding missionrunners.


doctorstupid2
The Accursed
Posted - 2007.12.13 00:46:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Tasuric Orka
How about you probe for.. "raven" instead?
For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place.

The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type.

I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. *shrug*

Praxis1452
The Illuminatii
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2007.12.13 01:07:00 - [51]
 

Another situation in which it might become useful. For example in amamake with the constant pirating going on having wrecks on scanner can often let you know which side is winning. This also allows you to come in as the battle ends. I've had wrecks on scanner sometimes and it allows you see how the battle has progressed. Of course wrecks don't automatically tell a corp or anything else but if you know certain people in local or have seen them on a gate. Situational and niche but still there.


Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.13 01:11:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Tasuric Orka
How about you probe for.. "raven" instead?
For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place.

The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type.

I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. *shrug*


Turncoat! YARRRR!!

Arekhon
Eternal Perseverance
B A N E
Posted - 2007.12.13 01:14:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo.


This. Which is blatantly unfair of course, and provides far too much information for far too little effort to the pirate. Can a mission runner use his scanner to find out what the pirate is using? Nope. Not like a pvp fitted pirate ship needs any further advantage over a pve fitted mission running ship, which is why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this change were deliberate.

Quote:




you are not a pirate are you? most of the time when we scan out mission runners we are away from our HQ and already have all the ammo we will use in our hold. We could give a crap what type of rat he is tanking, we have never met a mission runner whose tank we could not break. a ratting tank will melt to a pvp gang regardless of his resists.


doctorstupid2
The Accursed
Posted - 2007.12.13 01:22:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Tasuric Orka
How about you probe for.. "raven" instead?
For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place.

The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type.

I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. *shrug*


Turncoat! YARRRR!!
hey I'm just sayin... I'd love to have that info on my scanner again Twisted Evil

Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.13 03:16:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics.


Haha, someone that actually knows the same thing I do.
Yea, I've seen this happen a lot over the years, it's sad every time it happens. But then again, it always reminds me that without new challenges the dumb players will eventually have held their hands out long enough to have collected enough hints to catch up to the smart players. So unless there is a continual dropping of old tactics and generation of new tactics, there isn't a gap between IQ levels anymore.
Nerfs of this kind are never really a bad thing until there are no more nerfs left to nerf, and you're staring at World of Evecraft.. which I don't believe will ever happen :P

Requiescat
Red Arsenal
Posted - 2007.12.13 03:27:00 - [56]
 

Quote:
This.


Come up with your own posts please

Neither wrecks nor cargo containers show up now. Not to mention the confusing default 360 degree/5 degree position setting, and ugghhh

I really hate that scanning is so necessary

Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
Posted - 2007.12.13 04:03:00 - [57]
 

Please let a pirate whine thread die quickly. Frankly it's an emabarrassment.

Mik kyo
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.13 04:28:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Mik kyo on 13/12/2007 04:29:24
Theres a lot of people posting in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about tbh.

For everybody else who has extensivly probed mission runners will see that this is a serious nerf, and an unnecessary and unfounded one.

It actually takes more skill and knowledge out of probing and pirating than any thing else.
Not to mention making it easier to see probes in the first place.

I feel that it would be more effective to nerf stupid pirates, rather than people using skill, intelligence and game knowledge to help them.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.13 06:38:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Mik kyo
Edited by: Mik kyo on 13/12/2007 04:29:24
Theres a lot of people posting in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about tbh.

For everybody else who has extensivly probed mission runners will see that this is a serious nerf, and an unnecessary and unfounded one.

It actually takes more skill and knowledge out of probing and pirating than any thing else.
Not to mention making it easier to see probes in the first place.

I feel that it would be more effective to nerf stupid pirates, rather than people using skill, intelligence and game knowledge to help them.


Like I said in my OP- the smart guys will figure it out, the stupid ones... not so much. You can see how many of each has been posting in this thread. Three guesses as to which bunch is which.

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.13 06:44:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Please let a pirate whine thread die quickly. Frankly it's an emabarrassment.
This shoulda ended it Very Happy


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