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blankseplocked A rant about you nerf lovers
 
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inmarsat
Gallente
Freiheit Wanderweg Corp
Posted - 2007.12.11 19:54:00 - [1]
 

Right, I have had enough of this whining about over-powered / under - powered ships/modules/races ... whatever.

Whenever there is a change in Eve people whine about it - if there isnt a change - people whine about it.... Had your ship blown up by a (a) bigger group (b) a better pilot or (c) a badder ship with better modules ... hells t*ts why not whine about how the offending ship needs nerfing ...

Better still, lets all fly the equivalent of model t fords with absolutelty equal weapons - that way everyone can be exactly equal and eve can be neutered into the same homogenous mass that you whiners seem to want.

Just to try to translate this into a real life scenario that you might comprehend - ask yourselves this "would I be happy to see my country going to war with another bigger country using exactly the same kit ... no of course you wouldn't - you would want better kit and as a result your country might then go into a weapons research programme to make their kit hit harder, move faster or be tougher than the oppositions. The baddies will then do the same thing - and its called an arms race!

This is the way of things - if you cannot accept it in game then I suggest you might be happier playing the Sims

Ok there is my rant - now I run for cover!!Embarassed

Gawain Hill
Posted - 2007.12.11 20:07:00 - [2]
 

can you tell the amarr about this "arms race" that you mentioned?

inmarsat
Gallente
Freiheit Wanderweg Corp
Posted - 2007.12.11 20:14:00 - [3]
 

LOL Actually i have a little sympathy for Amarr - but only cos they haven't shot their scientists yet!

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2007.12.12 01:20:00 - [4]
 

I dont want to sound like a complete noob, or perhaps im smarter then im giving myself credit for...

Im amarr. I do like the small beams, when put to good use (with appropriate skills) on an AF. Anything larger and they seem to fail compared to other races weapons.. However, The solution is not to go nerf crazy, and thats what i dont understand.

I decided i dislike the amarr battlecruisers, and even the battleships. So I decided to train some of my gallente skills up, as ive seen more then 1 (and fought more then one) experienced pvp pilot who could fly battleships from two races.

Ill be in gallente battlecruisers in less then 3 days.

My point is this. If you dont like the weapons/modules/ship, either start another character, or start training other skills up for another race.

And for the love of god, use eve fitter. You'll sometimes find good setups that make people wonder if the amarr really do deserve a "buff"

And yes, I actually would support some kind of "free invention" system if they ever rolled one out, where you could actually invent new modules, and even keep them race specific where only a certain race is capable of using them, perhaps for the faction warfare expansion even, so that the players in eve could have a "internet spaceship arms race"

Wouldnt that be fun? Razz

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.12 01:49:00 - [5]
 

I kind of disagree. I believe that everything should be balanced, because who honestly wants to have to train every race?

But on that same note I would like for every ship to be different, which is more-so how it is now.

My only problem is the ferox being a writhing pile of suck. Otherwise most things seemed balanced.

For example, damps and ECM. Damps are 100% effective while ECM is chance based. So the trade off is that ecm is more powerful. Wildly different forms of ewar yet they seem mostly balanced.

Daerious El5engare
Posted - 2007.12.12 02:48:00 - [6]
 

Maybe we can have a special forum for whining. I mean nerf threads.

Blutreiter
Amarr
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.12.12 10:51:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: inmarsat
LOL Actually i have a little sympathy for Amarr - but only cos they haven't shot their scientists yet!

If what we're currently flying is the result of said scientists, they deserve to be shot though YARRRR!!

With rusty spoons Neutral

Fired from a railgun ugh

Francesca Fritzlestickz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.12 11:10:00 - [8]
 

tbh amarr is fine how it is , the battleships need a look into because the abaddon is seeming to be the swiss army knife for amarr battleships tbh the abaddon just needs to have a bigger cargo bay for it's ammo a.k.a "cap booster 800's"

geddon is fine but just seems to be lacking somewhere , apoc there is no real need for it with it's current bonuses either the abaddon or geddon does what the apoc can do but better , funny how the hyperion has almost the same capacitor size as the apoc that has a bonus to cap size tho tbh

Paulo Damarr
Posted - 2007.12.12 11:17:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Igualmentedos
My only problem is the ferox being a writhing pile of suck. Otherwise most things seemed balanced.


Agreed compare the Ferox to the Brutix, The Brutix gets a damage bonus and a tanking bonus and it has 7 turrets the damn Ferox only has 5 turret slots a tanking bonus and a range bonus which is pretty much useless and its PG is woeful. And its not like the Brutix is anywhere near overpowered its just the Ferox totally sucks.

And its the same with the Moa.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.12 12:04:00 - [10]
 

You are making the assertion that you like diversity. I'd be inclined to agree.

However your assertion that 'balanced' ships reduce it, and overpowered ones increase it is incorrect.

You end up with a trend towards everyone training the overpowered stuff, and no one flying the underpowered stuff.

Your 'arms race' might be realistic, but realism arguments are, and should be, left at the door, when one plays a game of internet spaceships. I don't want a realistic game, I want a fun one.

I want a game where rather than having to fly a particular ship/setup to be 'competitive', I want to have a reason to fly EVERY single ship in the game.

But the problem is, that something like 95% of the 'overpowered/underpowered' whining on this forum is as you say, people who are pushing an agenda. Their 'current pet' ship, just got nerfed, or maybe it just plain got beaten by another ship, in a fair fight.

Then there's about 5% that are actually raising valid concerns - there remain in EVE, ships that Just Plain Suck. When was the last time you saw someone flying a Ferox, for example? Why _shouldn't_ the Ferox be worth flying?

I don't mind there being a variance in ship capabilities. I'm all for it. However I also don't think there should be SO MUCH of a variance, that one ship obseletes another. When that happens, I will start to try to raise concerns about it. Be that in a 'buff xyz' ship sense, because a particular ship is far behind the alternatives, or a 'nerf xyz' when a particular ship is far ahead of all the alternatives.

Take for example, the Eos. It was MILES ahead of all the other fleet command ships in it's capabilities. I mean, I've had corpmates arguing the toss over whether they should use an Eos or an Astarte as their solopwnmobile.

When a situation like that happens, bearing in mind we DON'T want one option 'clearly better', and we want reasons to fly each, we can either increase the power of 3 ships, or reduce the power of one.

Reducing the power of one, means lots of people cry. Increasing the power of 3, means that then the whole shipclass becomes relatively better than other shipclasses within the game, and leads to a knock on wave of 'clearly better' ships.

Game balance is a ticklish and tricky subject, if only because people _tend_ to migrate towards the more powerful/overpowered ships, and leave the 'crap' alone. And therefore each time you improve the crap, and reduce the 'good'... well, you end up a small number pleased, and a lot crying that their i-win button got taken away.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2007.12.12 12:09:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
You are making the assertion that you like diversity. I'd be inclined to agree.

However your assertion that 'balanced' ships reduce it, and overpowered ones increase it is incorrect.

You end up with a trend towards everyone training the overpowered stuff, and no one flying the underpowered stuff.

Your 'arms race' might be realistic, but realism arguments are, and should be, left at the door, when one plays a game of internet spaceships. I don't want a realistic game, I want a fun one.

I want a game where rather than having to fly a particular ship/setup to be 'competitive', I want to have a reason to fly EVERY single ship in the game.

But the problem is, that something like 95% of the 'overpowered/underpowered' whining on this forum is as you say, people who are pushing an agenda. Their 'current pet' ship, just got nerfed, or maybe it just plain got beaten by another ship, in a fair fight.

Then there's about 5% that are actually raising valid concerns - there remain in EVE, ships that Just Plain Suck. When was the last time you saw someone flying a Ferox, for example? Why _shouldn't_ the Ferox be worth flying?

I don't mind there being a variance in ship capabilities. I'm all for it. However I also don't think there should be SO MUCH of a variance, that one ship obseletes another. When that happens, I will start to try to raise concerns about it. Be that in a 'buff xyz' ship sense, because a particular ship is far behind the alternatives, or a 'nerf xyz' when a particular ship is far ahead of all the alternatives.

Take for example, the Eos. It was MILES ahead of all the other fleet command ships in it's capabilities. I mean, I've had corpmates arguing the toss over whether they should use an Eos or an Astarte as their solopwnmobile.

When a situation like that happens, bearing in mind we DON'T want one option 'clearly better', and we want reasons to fly each, we can either increase the power of 3 ships, or reduce the power of one.

Reducing the power of one, means lots of people cry. Increasing the power of 3, means that then the whole shipclass becomes relatively better than other shipclasses within the game, and leads to a knock on wave of 'clearly better' ships.

Game balance is a ticklish and tricky subject, if only because people _tend_ to migrate towards the more powerful/overpowered ships, and leave the 'crap' alone. And therefore each time you improve the crap, and reduce the 'good'... well, you end up a small number pleased, and a lot crying that their i-win button got taken away.


how can you take this thread seriously james? you seem like a person of above average intelligence, who may believe in enlightenment values or rational debate and persuasion based on the volume of your posts (or has too much time, zing), but lets be realistic; rants are hopeless

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.12 12:46:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 12/12/2007 13:07:14
Originally by: Francesca Fritzlestickz
tbh amarr is fine how it is , the battleships need a look into because the abaddon is seeming to be the swiss army knife for amarr battleships tbh the abaddon just needs to have a bigger cargo bay for it's ammo a.k.a "cap booster 800's"

geddon is fine but just seems to be lacking somewhere , apoc there is no real need for it with it's current bonuses either the abaddon or geddon does what the apoc can do but better , funny how the hyperion has almost the same capacitor size as the apoc that has a bonus to cap size tho tbh


Saying Amarr is fine when pointing oh her best Ships is a bit meh. Rolling Eyes And give more Cargo for more boosters is a realy poor solution, instead of youst bring Lasers back to live.

Originally by: Paulo Damarr


Agreed compare the Ferox to the Brutix, The Brutix gets a damage bonus and a tanking bonus and it has 7 turrets the damn Ferox only has 5 turret slots a tanking bonus and a range bonus which is pretty much useless and its PG is woeful. And its not like the Brutix is anywhere near overpowered its just the Ferox totally sucks.

And its the same with the Moa.


Ferox was the number 1 Mission BC before Drake. Ferox now is preaty mutch useless because the Drake is better in every way of using Missles(and this was the use of the Ferox pre Drake). Rail BC without Damage Bonus and only five Turrets is kind of silly.

Afterall the Races should be diffrent in Playstyle. This is why i swaped to Galente a long Time ago, I love Heavy Damage without mutch tank and pin down a my Target close Range.
Every Race should have strong and weak points. But current Missiondesign(as it is more like the Ships itself) favours Caldari Ships aswell as current PVP favours Minmatar(speed) and Galente Ships(heavy Damage, close Combat) mutch.
Amarr are a bit left behind because her real Advantages(Range, ok this is a real advantage) and high Damage(not that high after Resistances) and strong Cap(no Advantage because of gimpt by using Lasers). See my Point. Rolling Eyes

Mutch whining is stupid, besides nerfs are mostly because everyone only uses one Playstyle(Nano atm in 0.0) and every Ship loaded Damps and Nos. To the "yust adept" people, well forcing EvE Players to one playstyle is fun isnīt it? It is impossible to make a game like EvE 100% balanced but forcing people to adept is a true sign of something that isnīt balanced.

Zhaine
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.12.12 12:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
You are making the assertion that you like diversity. I'd be inclined to agree.

However your assertion that 'balanced' ships reduce it, and overpowered ones increase it is incorrect.

You end up with a trend towards everyone training the overpowered stuff, and no one flying the underpowered stuff.

Your 'arms race' might be realistic, but realism arguments are, and should be, left at the door, when one plays a game of internet spaceships. I don't want a realistic game, I want a fun one.

I want a game where rather than having to fly a particular ship/setup to be 'competitive', I want to have a reason to fly EVERY single ship in the game.

But the problem is, that something like 95% of the 'overpowered/underpowered' whining on this forum is as you say, people who are pushing an agenda. Their 'current pet' ship, just got nerfed, or maybe it just plain got beaten by another ship, in a fair fight.

Then there's about 5% that are actually raising valid concerns - there remain in EVE, ships that Just Plain Suck. When was the last time you saw someone flying a Ferox, for example? Why _shouldn't_ the Ferox be worth flying?

I don't mind there being a variance in ship capabilities. I'm all for it. However I also don't think there should be SO MUCH of a variance, that one ship obseletes another. When that happens, I will start to try to raise concerns about it. Be that in a 'buff xyz' ship sense, because a particular ship is far behind the alternatives, or a 'nerf xyz' when a particular ship is far ahead of all the alternatives.

Take for example, the Eos. It was MILES ahead of all the other fleet command ships in it's capabilities. I mean, I've had corpmates arguing the toss over whether they should use an Eos or an Astarte as their solopwnmobile.

When a situation like that happens, bearing in mind we DON'T want one option 'clearly better', and we want reasons to fly each, we can either increase the power of 3 ships, or reduce the power of one.

Reducing the power of one, means lots of people cry. Increasing the power of 3, means that then the whole shipclass becomes relatively better than other shipclasses within the game, and leads to a knock on wave of 'clearly better' ships.

Game balance is a ticklish and tricky subject, if only because people _tend_ to migrate towards the more powerful/overpowered ships, and leave the 'crap' alone. And therefore each time you improve the crap, and reduce the 'good'... well, you end up a small number pleased, and a lot crying that their i-win button got taken away.


You should post more and other people should post less.

Just a slightly long winded way of saying QFT Smile


 

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