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Thorradin
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.03.28 14:55:00 - [181]
 

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but what about T2 salvagers, possibly a special ship too, that would let people recover T2 components, not just rig parts, but maybe you recover X of A and Y of B?

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.04.16 10:36:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
We do agree that the demand for components will only increase due to invention removing the limiting factor of a fixed original blueprint supply and new tech II ships being introduced. This has warranted a fresh look at the moon mining and construction component processes which has been ongoing for a while since we first confirmed we were introducing so many new ships and also making some big changes to invention which have lead to a very in-depth look at the industry from top to bottom.


So 4 months later , what do YOU think now?



Ambien Torca
Posted - 2008.04.16 12:00:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: 128th ABC123
Confused

-New Oil Fields and Ways to extract oil are constantly being found.
-Deep Sea Drilling (Shell), Coal Liquification (China), Alaskan Upgrader (USA striping oil rich topsoil and extracting oil.)
-There are alot of different "grades" of Oil. Most often defined in ultra light, light, heavy etc. This determines the range of products that can be refined out of the oil. The most wanted is the heavy oil as it has the largest range of products, open up your first year chemistry book to see a refining column and what products come out. Most of the "light" oil fields have been charted for over 70 years and have only recently become affordable or interesting to drill with the higher oil prices.
-Alternative fuel is not a myth and it will be replace fossil fuel in time.
-Oil production is not staggering and ALOT of new projects are final stages of completion or being started (refineries, platforms, FPSO's etc.)

We are NOT running out of Oil and supply can keep up with Demand. As oil is such an important commodity it is good that their is a governing organ that does have an influence on the supply and the price. Please don't see it as a conspiracy but as a safekeeping of something more people should be seeing the profits of Wink

The biggest factoring behind the oil is the world economy requiring more and more, economies like China are absorbing large quantities of resources, not only oil but for instance timber. Every Chinese person that has suddenly seen his welfare grow over the last 3 decades now wants a wooden floor in his house etc etc. (the Complet Island of Borneo is being cut down for the Chinese lumbermarket...Sad )


Eventually supply won´t keep up with demand when we are talking about oil, supply is finite. New sources of oil give less usable energy per energy used to get it to usable form in the first place which means you need lots more production compared to conventional one to get similar amount of energy out of it. And oil/NG can do so much work per gallon that nothing can replace it either into forseeable future. Solar is closest but we also have a energy storage problem. Until that is worked out and suitable infrastructure and vehicles for it are deployed we are heading towards financial implosion and resource wars which will cut down oil price, until demand picks up some and then we run into that same wall again. Government won´t save anyone ultimately [maybe themselves Razz ) and shame on people who think they will. Oil production is almost completely nationalized already and this will guarantee diplomatic problems between "producer" and "consumer" as producers find themselves barely capable of producing oil for themselves let alone for outside sales.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.04.16 12:07:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Ambien Torca

Eventually supply won´t keep up with demand when we are talking about oil, supply is finite. New sources of oil give less usable energy per energy used to get it to usable form in the first place which means you need lots more production compared to conventional one to get similar amount of energy out of it. And oil/NG can do so much work per gallon that nothing can replace it either into forseeable future. Solar is closest but we also have a energy storage problem. Until that is worked out and suitable infrastructure and vehicles for it are deployed we are heading towards financial implosion and resource wars which will cut down oil price, until demand picks up some and then we run into that same wall again. Government won´t save anyone ultimately [maybe themselves Razz ) and shame on people who think they will. Oil production is almost completely nationalized already and this will guarantee diplomatic problems between "producer" and "consumer" as producers find themselves barely capable of producing oil for themselves let alone for outside sales.


Aye. You need a lot of dreadnaughts to kick someone off from sweet moon.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.04.16 12:48:00 - [185]
 

Besides the things up to review. As an extra thing, not standalone. How about change all the invention BPCs to a default of ME 0 instead of -4.

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.04.16 15:50:00 - [186]
 

My .02Isk.

A new tier to mining. Bring out a miner that is the next step on from Exhumers. Allow it only to be used in True 0.0 (Risk/Reward). It will be able to surface mine a moon obviously needs to be an empty or friendly Moon. It will collect 1 Moon ore per 5 min cycle. you require 12 moon ores and a Moon ore refining array to turn it into Tech 2 Mats. By using some Refining Upgrade you will be able to stipulate which material to harvest from the raw moon ore. Abundance of each will be based on rarety. Total value of the refined products should be balanced around 50 mil. therefore atm noone would do it because mining other things is more profitable. If moon minerals become short in supply their value will increase and so more miner's would switch to moon mining. eventually covering the extra demand and collapsing material prices to a point where other mining becomes more profitable again.

I think this would allow supply to grow with demand but not affect current POS mining. If farmer jumped on the band wagon then they would need to take on the risk of living in 0.0 not going to happen IMO. their are corps that target farmer in sec space so farmers in 0.0 would be their dream.

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.04.17 02:31:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Midas Man


I think this would allow supply to grow with demand but not affect current POS mining. If farmer jumped on the band wagon then they would need to take on the risk of living in 0.0 not going to happen IMO. their are corps that target farmer in sec space so farmers in 0.0 would be their dream.


There were stories of isk farmer corps operating in the southern parts of 0.0. Apparently, the war there drove most of them off. So I don't think it's a stretch that they figure out how to get a piece. But a large fat ship like this macromining moons in 0.0? Not going to last.

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.04.17 09:22:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Midas Man


I think this would allow supply to grow with demand but not affect current POS mining. If farmer jumped on the band wagon then they would need to take on the risk of living in 0.0 not going to happen IMO. their are corps that target farmer in sec space so farmers in 0.0 would be their dream.


There were stories of isk farmer corps operating in the southern parts of 0.0. Apparently, the war there drove most of them off. So I don't think it's a stretch that they figure out how to get a piece. But a large fat ship like this macromining moons in 0.0? Not going to last.


I wasn't thinking about a particularly large ship. Similar in size to existing barge's/exhumers. Moon ore would be quite large like other 0.0 Mats so one would only be able to farm small amounts and i would hope its balanced as I stated above so that it self gouverns ie if wars are fought over a dyp moon and so supply goes down and price goes up then it would be feasable to mine it but if everyone and there dog started mining it it would be more profitable to mine the traditional ore's. And if you thin about it who would be willing to macro mine moons if you end up at a moon that you didn't scan first you quite easily could be pawned by POS's so Macro mining moons i think would be a big risk.

Ranges
Viper Intel Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2008.04.17 19:20:00 - [189]
 

Just in case anybody gives a damn, i made this thread about a possible way to create a variable moon material income;

Moon mining ships?

The basic idea is to;
1) allow for a variable (and therefore scaling) supply of moon materials
2) allow for better integration of PVP & mining
3) allow for economic warfare in lowsec and 0.0
4) NOT take moon material production away from the lowsec / 0.0 inhabitants (last part is my opinion, some people disagree)

Assuming anybody cares, please reply in the thread i linked to.. I doubt i'll be following this thread very much... :)

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.04.30 21:22:00 - [190]
 

Hahahhaha this thread is hilarious.

It's like the people of oil-poor countries got together and started praying to the ground: MOAR OIL OUTPUT PLX. Very Happy

RoboM
Heavens Gate Consortium
Dead Reckoning Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.01 11:04:00 - [191]
 

my 2isk

The situation between T2 BPOs and high grade moons is not comperable. The problem with T2 BPOs was transparency and also that you could have the BPO safe in an NPC station and manufacture/copy 24/7 without anyone been able to do anything about it.

Everyone in principalcan find out which moons have good material and try to kick the owners out.

Having said that the rl oil situation provides us with a viable/realistic solution from keeping the prices from skyrocketing.

As many ppl mentioned when oil becomes very expensive fields that are not easy to drill become economically viable.
Also in WWII when Germany was faced with oil shortages they started producing oil industrialy. The process was very inefficient and the cost in resources was great but they had no alternative.

The EvE equivalent of this would be to introduce new reactions and skills that would use expensive POS modules training intensive skills (a chemist-proffession)and lower grade moon materials to produce higher grade ones.

The whole process would still be innefficient and require a lot of training and expensive POS mods but it would be viable only when rare materials become astronomically expensive or a corp/allliance that doesn't own a dysp or prom moon decides to try to be self sufficient.

Cheers
RoboM

Moose Lee
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:09:00 - [192]
 

Ideas for moon mineral acquisitions.

First idea:
It seems there is a wide open possibility for the (the 1-4 meta items) that everyone has sitting in their hangar. What makes them more special? It's not because of mineral amounts, because often they reprocess to much less than the meta 0 item. Why not make them have small amounts of advance minerals or the components for T2 modules. By refining the modules it would of course destroy them, which would also help reduce stress on the database by clearing out modules that people have in their hangar and have no real use for, or are sitting on the market forever. This is especially true for the 1-2 meta lvl items. With the 3-4 lvl items people will have to choose if it is better to reprocess them, use them, invent with them or sell them.

Second idea: Have the drones drop small amounts of advanced moon mins or an "alloy" that has them. The drones are flying all over the place they might as well be mining moons too.

Third idea: When you destroy a NPC tower or battle station in missions what are they doing sitting there (except to cause you grief), why not have a chance to drop a little bit of moon minerals. This could also be added as a specific exploration mission with an NPC tower near a moon.

I think these ideas would give a boost, with just a little modification to the "loot tables" in the database, as opposed to having new ships, new mining mechanics added, etc. and could be easily changed if it hurts the market too much.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.06.11 22:59:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Posted - 15/12/2007 10:36:00

Originally by: Kaaii
I hope the devs keep reading this thread too, I have high hopes here....


Absolutely, tis' why I replied the first time round because it is something we are looking at internally and we are interested in getting opinions and feedback on the subject from all player perspectives out there and starting a discussion on the topic.


Half a year later... any progress ?

Oakrayven
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:27:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Posted - 15/12/2007 10:36:00

Originally by: Kaaii
I hope the devs keep reading this thread too, I have high hopes here....


Absolutely, tis' why I replied the first time round because it is something we are looking at internally and we are interested in getting opinions and feedback on the subject from all player perspectives out there and starting a discussion on the topic.


Half a year later... any progress ?



yes, its tentativly schedualed for release soon (tm)

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.06.12 01:53:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Oakrayven
yes, its tentativly schedualed for release soon (tm)

Next Neversday, you say ? Wink

Valle Deelite
Posted - 2008.08.05 22:19:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Valle Deelite on 05/08/2008 22:22:41
One thing that I hope the devs don't discount in their thinking is the spectre of farming and RMT. If you get people defending dyspo moons because their real livlihood depends on it it will basically make them unobtainable for anyone who isn't willing to play the game as if... well.... their real livlihood depended on it. At the end of the day, it needs to remain a game, not a job, and those who want to play a game shouldn't be competing with those for whom it's a job.

There should be resources in the game worth fighting over, especially for those who choose to live in 0.0 space for the thrill of territorial conquest, but in my opinion, those things should not lend themselves to AFK (moons) or macro-friendly (fixed ore belts) farming.

I think some care should be taken too not to reach a point in 0.0 where entrenched power blocks approach invincibility because of their economic power. A few years ago wars of attrition were fought where one side ultimately lost because it went broke trying to support the war effort. I'm not sure that's even possible now. I think most of the major power blocks could replace their fleets more or less as fast as they could blow them up and never run out of steam.

This could lead to a situation where 0.0 stagnates and becomes a series of endless (and pointless) "lets just do damage" campaigns because dislodging one of the major players from their space just isn't possible anymore.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.08.05 22:43:00 - [197]
 

I'll throw in my idea of a Moon Prospection Post. It's a POS module that allows to procure additional, random, limited and dynamically changing moon materials.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:04:00 - [198]
 

Next major patch (other than ambulation) was supposed to be for industry. I have high expetations for that, but I doubt that beans get spilled before fansfest. Perhaps something on lines presented here will make it also.

Lopin Acheteur
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.08.06 11:26:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Sadist
Hahahhaha this thread is hilarious.

It's like the people of oil-poor countries got together and started praying to the ground: MOAR OIL OUTPUT PLX. Very Happy


Yeah, becuase it's not like there is alternatives to oil or anything ?

If oil did a price rise on this scale it wouldn't be used for fuel within a few years as it would be totally replaced in almost every single industry with the alternatives that DO EXIST in real life, but are more expensive. In Eve, those alternatives simply don't exist at any cost.


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