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blankseplocked High Sec Piracy - It's what makes Eve worth playing
 
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2007.12.12 05:31:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 12/12/2007 05:34:01
I'm going to make a few quotes. I'm going to do it mainly because I feel like it and also smallishly because there might be 1 person interested that doesn't have access to the source... mostly because i feel like it though. I think they apply to the OP's sentiment. I agree with his message. Some of you have said you agree with what he's saying but not how he said it. WTF is that? Either you agree with someone or you don't. [insert insightful analogy here]. seriously, just wow... anyway, on with the quotes. T

Quote:
Immerse Yourself

- Are you ready to conceive a new life in the vast universe of EVE? Now it's time to create a character, choose a profession and decide whether to work with a corporatoin or go it alone on your path to glory.

- from page 5 of the original printed EVE Online Manual.


Quote:
Loot
There are two ways to acquire loot in outer space: Blow up other ships, or find and loot cargo containers. If you blow up a ship carrying viable goods, a diamond symbol will appear in space. The same symbol appears if you locate a cargo container to salvage. (Note: be careful shooting and looting other players ships and cargo containers within high security systems! You will suffer a security status hit, the local police will be alerted, and you might even be fired upon.)

- from page 33 of the original printed EVE Online Manual, under the heading "Ways to Make Money."


Quote:
CHOOSE A PROFESSION
Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy--be and do anything you'd never dare imagine.

- from the back cover of the original EVE Online CD jewel case


Quote:
Immerse yourself in the vast virgin territories of EVE where power is the Holy Grail and the ultimate aphrodisiac. Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin. The galaxy is yours to control if you have the brains, strength, and cunning to succeed.

- also from the back cover of the jewel case.


I think these quotes apply to many peoples sentiments. I could type for hours on my thoughts about eve and I have on several occaisions in the past. I wont do it now. Just read the quotes and think about what they mean to you and what they might mean to the OP. Forget about HOW he spoke. Not everyone is cut out to be a diplomat. Think about what he said. If you agree, support him, if you don't then try to convert him. Save the sensitivity training, as people who actually 'need' it rarely benefit from it.

One more thing, and pls, OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but The title of the thread... I think it could also be stated as such "High Sec Piracy, the only thing he loved about eve that hasn't been taken away yet..."


Ulstan
Posted - 2007.12.12 05:37:00 - [92]
 

Quote:
As others have said, the problem is there's incentive to go lowsec.


Hmm? I don't need more incentive to go to lowsec - I'd be there right now if not for the masses of pirates.

If there were no pirates, low sec would be just as populated as the rest of empire space, would it not? People don't need a special incentive, just a reasonable expectation they won't be killed, which they don't have, given the over saturation of low sec with pirates these days.

The only real way to get people to go back into low sec is to make it less likely they'll be pirated there - which I don't think is the direction we want the game to go.

I'm not terribly concerned about low sec pirates lack of targets, not as long as a gang of pirates, or hell, even a *single* pirate jumping a pve fitted mission runner run absolutely zero risk. Low risk should equal low rewards, and if pirates are, as claimed above, achieving a 98% kill rate, then the risk is quite low.

Mission runners have a higher chance of losing their ravens in L4 missions than pirates do pirating, apparently.

If CCP were to fix it so that a pve fitted ship was actually also well equipped for PvP, then we might be getting somewhere. If a pirate jumping a mission runner solo ran a decent risk of losing his ship, then we might be able to talk about moving missions to low sec, because then the risk vs reward for the pirate would be balanced. Of course, CCP would need to find someway to discourage needless blobbing as well. A gang jumping a solo runs almost no risk, so their reward should be quite low.

The risk vs reward mechanic in low sec generally is horribly broken, and until it is remedied, I don't see much in the way of options to 'fix' low sec.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.12.12 05:44:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Gekkoh
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 12/12/2007 04:25:42
Originally by: Gekkoh
It's akin to driving a car bomb into a cafe, rolling out just before it hits, and then running in immediately afterwards to pick up all the wallets and purses strewn about.
I want a game where I can do that.

Also, ITT all mechanics you don't like are now referred to as 'loopholes'.


Try GTA. Find a populated area, bang up your car until it catches on fire, then accelerate towards a dense group of pedestrians and roll out just before it blows. Get up and collect the cash! :-)
Not quite the same as driving it into a building though. Your description was more destructive and comical than GTA tends to be in practice.

Originally by: Gekkoh
rest of post
Very few of the specifics of EVE's mechanics were sat down and worked out, a lot of the game is a result of the interations of basic mechanics, so trying to single out suicide ganking on that point is pointless.

I also think that suicide ganking is an obvious inevitability of the system they put in place. CONCORD is not meant to provide safety, only consequences. If the gain from an action exceeds the cost of the consequences, that action is worthwhile, and implementing CONCORD simply pushed the cost of the consequences up, nothing more. Logically then all that is required is for the gain to increase proportionally for the action to become worthwhile again.

As for making sense or being intuitive, your risk in highsec comes down to the ratio between the survivability of your ship and the value of your cargo. Just as in RL, where for instance money is transferred in armored cars, in game valuables need extra precautions when being moved, despite being in a policed area. Seems senible and intuitive enough to be, at least by EVE standards.
In RP terms, CONCORD have always shown a disinterest in disputes between pod pilots. For a long time you did not get kill rights if people stole from a can you own. A simple payment is enough to allow you to attack another corporation. All they are interested in is stopping random people from shooting each other, they never get involved beyond that.
Insurance is nonsensical, but we knew that.

As you say, the idea behind it is that nowhere is completely safe. This method, despite its simple implementation, gives us a system whereby your risk is a meaningful risk, not just a random chance of dying for no reason, and allows you to manage the risk.
You can debate whether it is good or bad, or balanced or not, but it is not really a loophole as CONCORD succeed in what they set out to do; increase the cost of attacking someone in hisec.

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2007.12.12 05:57:00 - [94]
 

Yay, another whine thread. My thoughts in a nutshell: suicide ganking is fine, but insurance payouts when CONCORD is on the killmail should be 50% the insured value. The problem with suicide ganking isnt so much that it exists, but that there a couple of ships--specifically dominix--that you can suicide and still more or less break even. If there was an appropriate penalty to force would-be gankers to choose only targets of extremely high value, while still offering enough insurance payout to help people who just accidentally got concordoken, everything would be hunky dory.

me bored
Posted - 2007.12.12 06:00:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Thornat
I'm not a pirate, but I'm certainly not a carebear.


You lost all credibility right there. If you don't blink red you're a carebear end of story.

Sidewayzracer
Caldari
Advocated-Destruction
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2007.12.12 06:19:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Alitha Maru
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
To most people, what I call 'high sec piracy' is usually termed 'high sec suicide ganking', a phrase coined by the losers that end up dead because they don't have a brain and think that everyone should cater to them and their lazy/arrogant attitude that carebears get as standard issue before they undock. <Znip>....



Just out of curiosity, although I imagine you might not want to answer it, what is the hardest target you have tried to gank but absolutely couldn't? Smile As in, a well set up target.


Mine would be a auto piloting falcon fitted with a estamel invul and a kaikas invul on

yeah didnt go over so well when just as i went for him he turned em on and i didnt even scratch his sheilds. He wasnt carrying nething of value i went for the fitted modsSad

SiJira
Posted - 2007.12.12 17:52:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Ulstan


Hmm? I don't need more incentive to go to lowsec - I'd be there right now if not for the masses of pirates.

If there were no pirates, low sec would be just as populated as the rest of empire space, would it not? People don't need a special incentive, just a reasonable expectation they won't be killed, which they don't have, given the over saturation of low sec with pirates these days.


it doesnt sound like you have been in losec except for a few highly traversed routes into it from highly populated high sec areas on a satuday night or sunday afternoon

most losec is emptier than 0.0 believe it or not - and if you dont try going to at least 20 losec systems

Ulstan
Posted - 2007.12.12 19:23:00 - [98]
 

Quote:
it doesnt sound like you have been in losec except for a few highly traversed routes into it from highly populated high sec areas on a satuday night or sunday afternoon



Naw, mission running on weekdays. Wasn't hauling (well, except for the hauling missions). Every single night I ran missions in low sec, I had run ins with pirates of one sort or another (usually completley different groups than the previous nights). Every cross region hauling mission, I ran into low sec gate camps.

So you see, saying "people just need an incentive to go there" are wrong. I had an incentive to go there, but was eventually driven off by pirates after decided that, fun as it was compared to mindless mission grinding, it was absolutely killing my efficiency to keep having to dodge (or not dodge, as the case may be) pirate gangs. Once though a single pirate jumped me. Mad props to him!

Besides, it's silly to say "Oh, the only areas of low sec that are camped are the areas you have to travel through". I mean, where else would the pirates be? And does it matter if the rest of low sec isn't camped if noobs in high sec can't get to the clear spaces without going through the camped spaces? No.

Illyria Ambri
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.12 19:50:00 - [99]
 

You noob gankers want suicide ganking to stay the way it is??

I want a mod that blocks or counters cargo/ship scans.

Haulers have no personal defense.. but if we could block scans (even chance based) by using a highslot scan blocking mod..
It would add diversity to the game and give those gankers some excitement rather then target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. gank.. repeat.

If this truly is a rock/paper game.. then the haulers need a counter to the ship/cargo scan.

Its win/win/win

Haulers get some protection from suicide gankers since they can mask their cargo.

Gankers get added excitement as they wont know if they are ignoring a 5bill cargo load or a dozen t1 mods cause the scanner blocker.

Everyone gets less morons suiciding with disposable alts

Everyone wins with a cargo blocking mod..

Though I'm sure the gankers would cry cause their guarenteed income now has some difficulty attached to it.





Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.12 20:00:00 - [100]
 

The fact you can get all your **** blown up despite your best precautions makes this game worth playing.


G.


Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.12 20:24:00 - [101]
 

What keeps carebears out of low sec isn't the rewards. The rewards are there, and I've had the privilege of enjoying them. Its control.

A newbie corper, or a new corporation with a few members, has very little likelihood of achieving the necessary control over a system for enough time to take advantage of the rewards. Solo wanderers sure as heck aren't going to manage it.

CONCORD provides for new players the kind of security that a large PvP alliance provides its members. Regions of space where control is reasonably well enough established that you can operate without fear of ganking. Its not perfect, as the OP clearly describes with his modus operandi, but its damned good. An empire carebear is the operational equivalent of an RA or BoB industrial character. They can operate with impunity in their local space because the sovreigns of the region have established enough control that people who want to wreak havoc are intimidated enough not to step up.

So, to me, the kind of piracy the OP does is highly annoying, but at the same time, now as a member of a 0.0 alliance, I actually think his game is beneficial. If you EVER intend to leave the confines of empire space, either as a member of an established group, or the founding member of a new group, you're going to have to learn to be wary as f*ck about gates. Every jump is a potential trap, every trip needs to be though through every step of the way, even if its a quick shopping trip to a friendly station for new parts, and that minute or so of cloaking after you jump may end up nothing more than an opportunity to punch a warning into the intel channel that sh*t is in the process of happening.

High sec suicide gankers are the training dummies of EVE. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. You'll hate them, but what you learn working to counter them will make adapting to work beyond empire space a lot easier to cope with.

Jack Freely
Merchants Exports
Rising Phoenix Syndicate
Posted - 2007.12.12 20:33:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Illyria Ambri
You noob gankers want suicide ganking to stay the way it is??

I want a mod that blocks or counters cargo/ship scans.

Haulers have no personal defense.. but if we could block scans (even chance based) by using a highslot scan blocking mod..
It would add diversity to the game and give those gankers some excitement rather then target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. gank.. repeat.




You don't know what you are talking about, my hauler is 5000+ shields and high resists.

This is my main and I'm only at 3 months as for hauling I have had 3 bs fire on me but being I don't afk fly and I warp to 0 this isn't a problem. Even the camp on the other side missed me as I sat there and tanked them so please don't write anymore without thinking about it

Illyria Ambri
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.12 20:43:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Jack Freely
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
You noob gankers want suicide ganking to stay the way it is??

I want a mod that blocks or counters cargo/ship scans.

Haulers have no personal defense.. but if we could block scans (even chance based) by using a highslot scan blocking mod..
It would add diversity to the game and give those gankers some excitement rather then target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. ignore.. target.. scan.. gank.. repeat.




You don't know what you are talking about, my hauler is 5000+ shields and high resists.

This is my main and I'm only at 3 months as for hauling I have had 3 bs fire on me but being I don't afk fly and I warp to 0 this isn't a problem. Even the camp on the other side missed me as I sat there and tanked them so please don't write anymore without thinking about it


Come back when you actually get suicided on..

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:11:00 - [104]
 

To each their own, I suppose.

I am not, in any way, in favor of making hi-sec safe, however "hi-sec" piracy is hardly what makes this game worth playing.

I'm a pirate, I kill defenseless people all the time, but I also get into brawls with people who shoot back. A good fight is what makes this game worth playing, not ganking helpless industrials all day in hi-sec.

-Karl

Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
CAPS Holding
Capital Storm
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:19:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 12/12/2007 22:26:29
The only high security pirating I participate in (or used to untill I started missioning) is ore thieveing. Either me or my friend used to warp in, with a fast ship, make a jet can next to the target's. Then transfer all the ore over and leave to get a hauler. In the process, if the miner tries to take the ore back, then the person who waited behind warps in and blows them up. If not, then we go in with haulers (assuming that the person we're stealing from is a macroer, because they usually are) and take what we can.

Once I was sitting right next to all these wrecks, and this idiot in a Cormorant came along, and started looting all my wrecks, I didn't notice at first, untill the blinking red caught my eye. I killed the Cormorant, and made an easy 2 mil, because the idiot had a tech 2 cargo expander on him.

I really want to join a 0.0 corporation, because as someone else said in the thread on this page, if you're in a 0.0 Alliance, you're less likley to get ganked as you are in high sec, because there is also the risk of being podded, or having war waged upon you for ****ing people off.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:29:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
As others have said, the problem is there's incentive to go lowsec.

Hmm? I don't need more incentive to go to lowsec - I'd be there right now if not for the masses of pirates.


I don't think its accurate to say that low-sec is filled with "masses of pirates." This just isn't the case.

Quote:
If there were no pirates, low sec would be just as populated as the rest of empire space, would it not?


Possibly, but the key here (as you say below) is balancing risk and reward. If the rewards were such that living in low-sec, despite the pirates, resulted more rewards, we might see an increase in the number of people living in low-sec. This isn't necessarily the case, but its a far more complex issue than you are suggesting it is.

Quote:
People don't need a special incentive, just a reasonable expectation they won't be killed, which they don't have, given the over saturation of low sec with pirates these days.


I beg to differ, sir. What you are describing is an incentive. Basically, you're saying that if we added the incentive--you can't die--to low-sec more people would live there. And again, I would call low-sec far more "over saturated" with macro haulers than pirates.

Quote:
The only real way to get people to go back into low sec is to make it less likely they'll be pirated there - which I don't think is the direction we want the game to go.


Your use of the word "we" here is strange. Given the context and the content of your post, I'd put you in the column of people who do want to see the game go in this direction.

Fortunately I don't think it will. I also don't think its a black and white matter i.e. the only solution is not "make low-sec safer."

[qoute]I'm not terribly concerned about low sec pirates lack of targets, not as long as a gang of pirates, or hell, even a *single* pirate jumping a pve fitted mission runner run absolutely zero risk.


This isn't true. If you think its true you are daft. Pirates kill each other you realize? So whatever risk that lone mission runner has, the pirate has also.

Furthermore, that's very interesting that you think mission runners in their dead space missions farming isk all day long with very little risk compared to any other profession deserves some type of singling out for "protection." As if the mission runners weren't already operating with considerably less risk than anyone else in low-sec.

Quote:
Low risk should equal low rewards, and if pirates are, as claimed above, achieving a 98% kill rate, then the risk is quite low.


I don't know where that number comes from, especially since most of what pirates do these days is fight one another. If the 98% figure is accurate, most of these guys must be getting into fights where both sides win and neither side loses. Wink

And if you really need to have it explained to you how difficult it is to make a living, in-game, as a pvp-only combat pilot you are a lost cause. I should of assumed that the minute you described piracy as a "low risk" profession.

Quote:
Mission runners have a higher chance of losing their ravens in L4 missions than pirates do pirating, apparently.


Not true.

(cont)

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:34:00 - [107]
 

Quote:
If CCP were to fix it so that a pve fitted ship was actually also well equipped for PvP, then we might be getting somewhere.


Different fits for different tasks. If you want to maximize your effectiveness running a particular mission, then you deal with the consequences of being scanned out.

Which, while we're on the topic, isn't very likely. Even when it does happen, if you use just a modicum of common sense, the mission runner escapes nearly 100% of the time.

The only good argument you can make is that the NPC mission ships should change targets when "pirates" or other ships in general, warp in.

See I run L4s myself from time to time so I know the tricks used to avoid risk. I also know that of all the things I do in EVE running missions is the safest. Period.


-K

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.12 23:25:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
Quote:
If CCP were to fix it so that a pve fitted ship was actually also well equipped for PvP, then we might be getting somewhere.


Different fits for different tasks. If you want to maximize your effectiveness running a particular mission, then you deal with the consequences of being scanned out.

Which, while we're on the topic, isn't very likely. Even when it does happen, if you use just a modicum of common sense, the mission runner escapes nearly 100% of the time.

The only good argument you can make is that the NPC mission ships should change targets when "pirates" or other ships in general, warp in.

See I run L4s myself from time to time so I know the tricks used to avoid risk. I also know that of all the things I do in EVE running missions is the safest. Period.


-K



Mission running in lowsec took a major bone in the bunghole with Trinity.

Missions no longer reset after downtime. So if you have a mission with a retrieval objective, like the Damsel mission, you're screwed with no recourse, because the objective can be destroyed without any hope of a reset.

On the one hand, you can call it yet another cold reality of EVE, but the pragmatic view is, you've just made running missions in a PvP zone even less attractive to mission runners. Its not exactly helping the cause here.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.12.13 00:48:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
it doesnt sound like you have been in losec except for a few highly traversed routes into it from highly populated high sec areas on a satuday night or sunday afternoon



Naw, mission running on weekdays. Wasn't hauling (well, except for the hauling missions). Every single night I ran missions in low sec, I had run ins with pirates of one sort or another (usually completley different groups than the previous nights). Every cross region hauling mission, I ran into low sec gate camps.

So you see, saying "people just need an incentive to go there" are wrong. I had an incentive to go there, but was eventually driven off by pirates after decided that, fun as it was compared to mindless mission grinding, it was absolutely killing my efficiency to keep having to dodge (or not dodge, as the case may be) pirate gangs. Once though a single pirate jumped me. Mad props to him!

Besides, it's silly to say "Oh, the only areas of low sec that are camped are the areas you have to travel through". I mean, where else would the pirates be? And does it matter if the rest of low sec isn't camped if noobs in high sec can't get to the clear spaces without going through the camped spaces? No.



you didnt read the entire post did you?
you can get to those less travelled systems when there are less people online and then you can stay there since pirates wont check there much


good luck

Jackal79
Posted - 2007.12.13 03:26:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Jackal79 on 13/12/2007 03:29:14
Edited by: Jackal79 on 13/12/2007 03:26:52
I agree with this post.

Currently you can stay in a noob corp in high sec and play the game with absolutely no risk, save the occasional suicide ganker (the only way you can currently get ganked in highsec while your carrying something valuable is if your a complete tool bag and deserve to be blown to bits). Being at considerable risk at all times is what sets this game apart from worthless and boring titles such as WoW. I have the solution to this issue.

The solution to players in noob corps in high sec, is to automatically boot players from noob corps after a couple months. The player who is booted from a noob corp will be unaffiliated (won't be in a corp), and can be wardec'd by anyone (for a price much lower than wardecing a corp, say 10M).

I also agree that more money making venues exclusive to lowsec need to be added. CCP did good by making booster production a lowsec only sort of thing, but booster production is extremely hard to get into and won't attract many people.

*** Note: A consequence of this change would be that alliances would probably form in high sec. The game would get alot more interesting if this happened.

Untana
Posted - 2007.12.13 03:59:00 - [111]
 

Actually Bellum is one of the most skilled pirates in EVE. Has been for a longtime. Yet to ever meet him or tlak to him but his tutorials and and such have taught people alot than just playing the brain dead way.

Reading some of these posts from some of YOU CAREBARS.. just makes me want to grief even more... quite sad.

Saint Luka
Altruism.
Darkness Rising Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.13 08:05:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
To each their own, I suppose.

I am not, in any way, in favor of making hi-sec safe, however "hi-sec" piracy is hardly what makes this game worth playing.

I'm a pirate, I kill defenseless people all the time, but I also get into brawls with people who shoot back. A good fight is what makes this game worth playing, not ganking helpless industrials all day in hi-sec.

-Karl


Lmfao, listen to you - oh and look at your signature. Last kill was a bestower!

Laughing

Qui Shon
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:43:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

So the whole point of the OP is this: if you die in high sec, blame CCP. Not because they allow it to happen, but because CCP has pushed pirates into doing it through changes in the game like WTZ, HP buffs, lock time nerfs (scripts), DPS nerfs, tank buffs, invention, drone regions etc. putting pressure on pirates to abandon low sec as a place to live.



Blame the game, not the player? Thing is, the player *is* the game. No player, no game. "They made me do it" yeah right.

Blame is not the same thing as cause. The cause is CCP made mechanics and values (values as in drop rates, min composition, module stats etc, not as in moral values), and CCP should make some changes to remove permanent suicide gate camps.

So called professional suiciding, which would include things like hunting, tracking, planning and striking, few have a problem with. It's the strongly increased prevalence of permanent sit on a gate and fish camps, done at NO RISK, that many are disliking. (Since I can setup at least a Domi, and probably many other ships too, so my losses are negligeable when FAILING, there is no risk, despite claims to the contrary.)

So, CCP should change either mechanics or values to normalize the ganking and remove the no-risk piracy.


Quote:

The fact that my abrasive posting style antagonizes so many lamer carebears into posting hate posts just proves it's worth.


You have absolutely no ground to stand on when commenting on hate posts. Your op, and each subsequent post has been so full of hate, calling it 'abrasive' doesn't even begin to cover it. You are an utter hypocrite.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:47:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne


Quote:
People don't need a special incentive, just a reasonable expectation they won't be killed, which they don't have, given the over saturation of low sec with pirates these days.


I beg to differ, sir. What you are describing is an incentive. Basically, you're saying that if we added the incentive--you can't die--to low-sec more people would live there. And again, I would call low-sec far more "over saturated" with macro haulers than pirates.



Reduced risk makes for a weaker deterrent, not a stronger incentive. Semantics, sure, but still valid.

Swindley
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:21:00 - [115]
 

My Name is Swindley, and I'm a carebear;)
Well, mostly anyway, war can be fun when bored:)

Anyway, I don't really mind the suicide ganking that much, I just think the risk vs reward should be slightly adjusted. The only change I'd like to see is the removal of insurance if you suicide gank.
It's just too easy and risk free atm. I don't think a 30mill target should be worth it, but i definitely think a 1 bill target in a cheap industrial should be worth taking some risks.

And as mentioned earlier, it would promote people using t2 ships or even cheaper ships, instead of automaticly using a bs because of full insurance vs t2. More diversity and tactical decisions imo, which is never bad.

I'd be for removing insurance all together, but I do understand it would be a huge pain for newbies having some bad luck and losing all their savings for that new bs, and make them not want to play etc. And I'm not for anything that makes this game less newbie friendly.

Conclusion: Help newbies, punish really stupid people, and higher risk vs more reward:)

And this is the opinion of someone that does not suicide gank, don't attack anyone other than war targets and pirates, and sometimes transports valuable stuff. (less during wartimes though:)

-Swindley

Jackal79
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:29:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Bellum Eternus

So the whole point of the OP is this: if you die in high sec, blame CCP. Not because they allow it to happen, but because CCP has pushed pirates into doing it through changes in the game like WTZ, HP buffs, lock time nerfs (scripts), DPS nerfs, tank buffs, invention, drone regions etc. putting pressure on pirates to abandon low sec as a place to live.



Blame the game, not the player? Thing is, the player *is* the game. No player, no game. "They made me do it" yeah right.

Blame is not the same thing as cause. The cause is CCP made mechanics and values (values as in drop rates, min composition, module stats etc, not as in moral values), and CCP should make some changes to remove permanent suicide gate camps.

So called professional suiciding, which would include things like hunting, tracking, planning and striking, few have a problem with. It's the strongly increased prevalence of permanent sit on a gate and fish camps, done at NO RISK, that many are disliking. (Since I can setup at least a Domi, and probably many other ships too, so my losses are negligeable when FAILING, there is no risk, despite claims to the contrary.)

So, CCP should change either mechanics or values to normalize the ganking and remove the no-risk piracy.


Quote:

The fact that my abrasive posting style antagonizes so many lamer carebears into posting hate posts just proves it's worth.


You have absolutely no ground to stand on when commenting on hate posts. Your op, and each subsequent post has been so full of hate, calling it 'abrasive' doesn't even begin to cover it. You are an utter hypocrite.


You cannot engage in any PvP without considerable risk. If you don't understand this, then you have not PvP'd more than a couple of times. There are lots of ways to hunt lowsec gate campers and ensure you kill a couple of ppl in their gang. They typically involve baiting them or forcing them to jump into a large gang on the other side.

Anyway, as I explained in my earlier post, the solution is to boot people from noob corps after a few months into an "unaffiliated" state in which you can be wardec'd. I think this would cause more interesting careers in eve to be more viable such as mercenaries/pirates, and it would introduce a political element to high sec.


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