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Greebus
Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 - [1]
 

Yes it's another nerd thread!

My question to CCP is why after 4 years of running Eve Online they are still nerfing things?

Personally I think this a major failing on their part. We the paying customer are constantly training for the ultimate killing machine only to find that it is nerfed in a not so distant patch shortly after successfully training and fitting relevant modules.

My question is when will CCP get it right? Because aside from the extra content everyone cries out for I'd like to see more effort and preplanning to prevent nerfs in the future.

Discuss

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.07 18:39:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Greebus
My question to CCP is why after 4 years of running Eve Online they are still nerfing things?

Do you honestly think that CCP can think of every combination of ships/modules/skills/implants/situations in a game like EVE?

Greebus
Posted - 2007.12.07 18:53:00 - [3]
 

hmmmm yes?

Common sense is what's needed here

A new ship is released, let's call it carrier for arguments sake.

The carrier can field 15 fighters? And can fly in 0.5 and below < fact?

People train them and as expected sit on gates and shoot people < fact?

At the same time

People in 0.0 form huge blobs of carriers fielding huge sums of fighters < fact?

So this was on the cards from day one you could say? Common sense asks the question, where was the discussion about what could and would happen once carriers were released.

This Is what CCP fail to do time and time again, next time it will be marauders or heavy dictors mark my words and get ready to eat your hat

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.07 18:57:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tarminic on 07/12/2007 18:58:02
Well since you should be able to think of it, how will Marauders be abused that will warrant a nerf? How about HACtors? Black Ops Ships?

I mean, obviously a couple people should be able to think of every possibility, right?

More specifically - how will HACtors be used in combination with carriers that will require a nerf?

How will nanoships and the new nano-repair paste do something unintended and bad for the game?

How will meta-drones be used to make the Dominix slightly overpowered against smaller ships?

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.07 18:59:00 - [5]
 

Your problem is training for the ultimate killing machine. No such thing is intended to exist in EVE. One pops up every now and again, and if you can't see the nerf coming... sucks to be you...

They aren't going to predict every use that every player will come up with for any given addition. So when one is so overwhelmingly successfull that everyone is doing it with little significant downside, it's time to address it. YOU should have been able to predict this, it's your failing not CCPs IMO.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:01:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Greebus
We the paying customer are constantly training for the ultimate killing machine
Here's why they have to keep nerfing.

Persephone Heaven
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:12:00 - [7]
 

I'd like to ask the same question!

Isn't EVE supposed to be a MMORPG?? Arent they trying to create an alternate Universe/Reality with it's own history/culture/economy? How the hell can you do that when they keep changing the rules of said universe every six months. Theres no consitency.

You spend months planning, testing and training a skill path based on the Eve Universe as it is. Only to have the rug pulled from under your feet and all your planning/work effort is trashed. When the fundamental premise of your strategy is changed in one day.

So how does this fit into the role playing bit of MMORPG. Do we assume that every six months we slip through a worm hole into a parallel universe where nothing operates the same as it did before patch day. NOS just suddenly stop working, Drones suddenly stop regenerating shields, ships suddenly develop or lose huge amounts of cargo space.

The fun of EVE is that your effort in time can be rewarded. Over time you can build and develop through the implementation of long term strategies. It's crazy that all your efforts that have taken you months or years can be wiped out over night by some arbitrary decision that you have no say in. People lose billions of ISK every time a patch comes out and a mod is nerfed. Or Months of combat training are rendered useless.

The opportunities this provides for profit making from insider trading shouldnt be ignored, especially now we all know that Eve employees play the game and collaborate with other players. I wonder how many billions ISK are made by friends of GMs an GMs themselves every patch day with the forward knowledge that they have of upcoming changes. Sell of all the crap thats being nerfed the weeks before to other players who have no idea and make sure to invest heavily in the mods that they know will get boosted.


ChimeraRouge
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:16:00 - [8]
 

another fail thread. go back to wow.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.12.07 19:20:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Greebus
We the paying customer are constantly training for the ultimate killing machine only to find that it is nerfed in a not so distant patch shortly after successfully training and fitting relevant modules.



See thread "I don't want to play unless my ship is the best".

Unlike you, I train for what I like flying and support skills to be effective. Typically those aren't ships that are 'uber' or FOTM, but ships which are effective and suit my flying style. I don't get nerfed. You do. Draw conclusions.





Greebus
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:41:00 - [10]
 

omg - go back to wow? How about you form
a contructive discusion moron

Twisted Evil

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:42:00 - [11]
 

Whine much?

Greebus
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:51:00 - [12]
 

Burger king are so kind at Christmas some of their staff get to finish early - bless

LiQ'd
Posted - 2007.12.07 22:46:00 - [13]
 

OP - spot on

Dr Paithos
Minmatar
Republic Deep Space Institute
Posted - 2007.12.07 22:52:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Dr Paithos on 07/12/2007 22:52:03
Indeed the tracking disruptor nerf whine whine whine bleh you get my point Crying or Very sad


(this is a seriouspoast agreeing with da op)

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.07 22:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Greebus
omg - go back to wow? How about you form
a contructive discusion moron

Twisted Evil

Oh, the delicious irony in this post.

Saint Luka
Altruism.
Darkness Rising Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:00:00 - [16]
 

lol @ Burger King - me likes

Laughing

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:01:00 - [17]
 

In all four years, nothing new has ever been added. So clearly, nothing should need to change.

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:35:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Greebus
omg - go back to wow? How about you form
a contructive discusion moron

Twisted Evil

Oh, the delicious irony in this post.


STOPPIT... You have made too many posts I agree with today. It's not natural.

SnakeByte86
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:36:00 - [19]
 

CCP nerfs everything, instead of making bad things useful, so in the end we have everything useless.

Carriers = useless
Hauling (thanks for m3 nerf ccp!) = useless
Tracking disruptor? Are you kidding? amarrs only ew option. = useless
Nos? Amarrs saving grace = useless
Curse you say?! Damn right curse. With out tracking disruptors and nos, it is USELESS.

Why do they keep nerfing things, espically when we say things dont need nerfed. See Tracking disruptors, hauling, and the 37+ pages of people telling them "DO NOT NERF CARRIERS"

CCP doesnt play the game, and this is just a way to keep people training for new ships, which keeps intrest in advancement, which keeps subscriptions being paid.

I am ashamed to have previously been a ccp fanboi.

You sicken me now.

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:39:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: SnakeByte86
CCP nerfs everything, instead of making bad things useful, so in the end we have everything useless.

Carriers = useless
Hauling (thanks for m3 nerf ccp!) = useless
Tracking disruptor? Are you kidding? amarrs only ew option. = useless
Nos? Amarrs saving grace = useless
Curse you say?! Damn right curse. With out tracking disruptors and nos, it is USELESS.

Why do they keep nerfing things, espically when we say things dont need nerfed. See Tracking disruptors, hauling, and the 37+ pages of people telling them "DO NOT NERF CARRIERS"

CCP doesnt play the game, and this is just a way to keep people training for new ships, which keeps intrest in advancement, which keeps subscriptions being paid.

I am ashamed to have previously been a ccp fanboi.

You sicken me now.


If all those things are useless, we wont see any of them in space anymore then will we?

the caligynephobist
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: SnakeByte86
You sicken me now.


chew ginger.

Chaplain Veritas
Amarr
The Aduro Protocol
Posted - 2007.12.08 00:49:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Greebus
Burger king are so kind at Christmas some of their staff get to finish early - bless


sorry but you're the one getting distraught over a video game. lol.

ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
Posted - 2007.12.08 01:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Edited by: Tarminic on 07/12/2007 18:58:02
Well since you should be able to think of it, how will Marauders be abused that will warrant a nerf? How about HACtors? Black Ops Ships?

I mean, obviously a couple people should be able to think of every possibility, right?

More specifically - how will HACtors be used in combination with carriers that will require a nerf?

How will nanoships and the new nano-repair paste do something unintended and bad for the game?

How will meta-drones be used to make the Dominix slightly overpowered against smaller ships?


I am waiting for the Muarader to do its thing. It makes Blob warefar even better. Spider Tanking Muarader Blobs FTW! Sure the Amarr can't do it (LOL sorry Amarr) but the rest of them can especailly the Matari ones.

What CCP could use though TBH is a good strategist. Number crunching programmers are good for making programs work. Visionary artists are great for making pretty things. But strategists are good for making combat units functional but not over powering.

Zandaar
Posted - 2007.12.08 01:55:00 - [24]
 

It's a wonderful idea.

It will never happen in this or any other game.

Cinimrat
Amarr
Black Flame Industries
Posted - 2007.12.08 02:00:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Cinimrat on 08/12/2007 01:59:55
Nevermind.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.08 02:01:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama
STOPPIT... You have made too many posts I agree with today. It's not natural.

Don't worry, I post so often that statistically I'm bound to say something you agree with. Monkeys with typewriters and all. Wink

Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.08 02:08:00 - [27]
 

I get the feeling that op hasn't specialised and just trained up what seemed to be the most powerful thing at the time.
Could be wrong though.

SnakeByte86
Posted - 2007.12.08 09:43:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Araxmas
I get the feeling that op hasn't specialised and just trained up what seemed to be the most powerful thing at the time.
Could be wrong though.


You got it backwards, this is about people "specializing" like you are susposed to in eve, only to have months waste when ccp nerfs another Balanced ship.

Take me for example, i max energy emmission, drones, amarr cruiser 5, recon ship 5, etc.
Now the curse is not even worth its weight in horse poop

Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
Posted - 2007.12.08 09:52:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: ZerKar
Originally by: Tarminic
Edited by: Tarminic on 07/12/2007 18:58:02
Well since you should be able to think of it, how will Marauders be abused that will warrant a nerf? How about HACtors? Black Ops Ships?

I mean, obviously a couple people should be able to think of every possibility, right?

More specifically - how will HACtors be used in combination with carriers that will require a nerf?

How will nanoships and the new nano-repair paste do something unintended and bad for the game?

How will meta-drones be used to make the Dominix slightly overpowered against smaller ships?


I am waiting for the Muarader to do its thing. It makes Blob warefar even better. Spider Tanking Muarader Blobs FTW! Sure the Amarr can't do it (LOL sorry Amarr) but the rest of them can especailly the Matari ones.

What CCP could use though TBH is a good strategist. Number crunching programmers are good for making programs work. Visionary artists are great for making pretty things. But strategists are good for making combat units functional but not over powering.



Actually not a bad idea, a 'strategist' or two that they keep on the payroll to tear the game apart and anticipate game concepts that would get exploited. I know it's something that betatesters and the test server are supposed to work on, but let's face it, everyone that has a Live account has an agenda, and will keep the really juicy stuff quiet so their people can have the advantage. What CCP needs is some people who are NOT playing on Live that can tear things apart in the pure testing spirit.

They can pay an economist to run a simple database call and tell us the percentage of people that play Amarr...I'm sure they can afford a few professional testers to seek out potential exploits.

Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
Posted - 2007.12.08 09:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: SnakeByte86
Originally by: Araxmas
I get the feeling that op hasn't specialised and just trained up what seemed to be the most powerful thing at the time.
Could be wrong though.


You got it backwards, this is about people "specializing" like you are susposed to in eve, only to have months waste when ccp nerfs another Balanced ship.

Take me for example, i max energy emmission, drones, amarr cruiser 5, recon ship 5, etc.
Now the curse is not even worth its weight in horse poop



Perhaps its your tactics that aren't worth the weight in excrement? I guarantee you that somewhere in this game, every combat ship has at least 1 person who has made it work on some productive level, in PVE and PVP.

Think harder and make your Curse work.


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