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blankseplocked Compensation for Boot.ini errors!!!
 
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Fenderson
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: vextorious
Originally by: Fenderson
i understand the desire to ask for compensation, but in the end you are asking for an entire company and all the customers of that company to pay the cost for one persons mistake. even if it was an incredibly stupid mistake, it would be overall harmful to the community for ccp to give out any kind of compensation for this.

just for some perspective, i say this as i sit here reformatting the harddrive on my primary machine because my IT guy at work screwed things up even worse when i went to him to fix the initial "hal.dll" error.


I wrestled with this as well because I do love Eve. I don't want to see it suffer. But at the same time, CCP needs to learn a lesson here. As stated earlier, this was not a surprise too many users. It was reported days ago. This tells me that management doesn't listen too some people in the company, particularly, the employees that man this board.



CCP will suffer for this no matter what. you dont have to go out of your way to make that happen. any time a company has a major screwup like this, they lose customers and lose reputation which decreases future customers. forcing them to pay out aditional compensation would only make it hurt them worse, and most likely would not increase their motivation to fix things.

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Lucas Avignon
Some of you guys amaze me. It's no big deal, a little error on the installation and you cry for compenstation.


Get real ffs, be happy your hard drive or hardware didn't malfunciton and you lost all your data, this would have been far worse and the most compenstation you could have gotten is a replacement if it was still in warranty.

You are responsible for your pc, not microsoft or CCP, either stop using a pc, pay someone to fix it or grow a brain.

You guys are pathetic little men and need to grow up and smell the roses.


I smell fanboi.

Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Elenath
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
Originally by: Dr Paithos
Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41
Originally by: Xaroth Brook

read the last bit...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods

Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so.

Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige

Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be:
a) Interesting
b) Hilarious


from that nice CISGW post:

Quote:

Article 6
The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions.





What you apparently too clueless to understand (all legalese aside) is that whether the EULA covers this issue isn't the point. The point is that any company willing to use an EULA to cover for horrible quality assurance, poor programming, and horrible customer service (as you are apparently arguing) is only showing their true colors to their customers.

Once again, since you can't/won't read - the EULA is not a way out for stepping up to the plate and compensating customers out of a desire to run a quality company.

If CCP use the EULA as a way to get out of compensation they'll likely lose quite a few customers. Rightly so.


and that's why there were around 3000 more people online tonight than an average thursday evening?

people don't care about the EULA, read the link i put up before, be it for a good laugh as well.

However, i do agree that hiding behind the EULA isn't the thing to be done to avoid compensation... but seriously, for something as severe as this CCP has acted fast and with reliable sollutions (given that the first people were online at 2200, and were probably done downloading/installing at around 2300.. not more than 5 hours later ccp tracked down and identified the cause and acted to prevent it..)

Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [124]
 

The time you are currently spending whining on the forums could be better spent on fixing the boot.ini, or contracting your stuff to me.

Pordy
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [125]
 

It gas made it to the digg front page:

http://www.digg.com/pc_games/New_Eve_Online_expansion_renders_Windows_XP_unusable



LMAO not good news.

Rudi Storm
SGL
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [126]
 

And how does anyone of you "compensation" fans intend to compensate the people who were really effected? Think about. There is no way you can know who was effected?

Fenderson
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:07:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Pordy
It gas made it to the digg front page:

http://www.digg.com/pc_games/New_Eve_Online_expansion_renders_Windows_XP_unusable



LMAO not good news.



exactly my point... ccp is already gona suffer more than enough for this.

VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 06/12/2007 22:09:43
EULA doesn't mean much, not sure why people keep bringing it up. I do not believe that any court has ever held that clicking, "I Agree" actually constitutes entering into any legal agreement.


CCP will probably get sued over this, there are a hell of a lot of people that don't know much about computers, unfortunately. They will probably just take their computer into some morons like geek squad that will promptly zero the drive and then install a pirate copy of windows Laughing

Louis DelaBlanche
An Outlying Variable
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 06/12/2007 22:27:36
Originally by: vextorious
As all you regular forum reader already know, there is a small contingent of users who do nothing but bash anyone that disagrees with CCP actions or policies.

This phenomenon is not limited to the eve forums, but rears is ugly head in just about every forum on the internet.

BUT! If you can sort through the mess, this thread has numerious high quality posts making good arguments for both sides. I suggest your read it through.


Whenever CCP sneeze, a predictable chain of events happen. Someone (usually lots of someones all aparently independantly unaware of all the others) posts a negative topic, coupled with demands for some form of reimbursement. This causes a mix of people who agree with said person, & those who disagree, to reply to said persons thread & voice their opinions with varying levels of eloquence & politeness.

Those who agree with the op (& often the op his/herself) turn on those who support CCP, or at least dont support the damands of those against, declaring them fanbois & using incrasingly crude, personal & offensive language to express that. Said 'fanbois' then respond by declaring the others trolls, morons etc & of course also use increasingly crude, personal & offensive language.

At some point someone will tell the OP to go back to WOW, the EULA will be brought up & torn apart by multiple people with little or no knowledge of legal documents. The assertion of people living in their parents basement will be used to somehow imply a moral superiority of those using it (who may or may not live in their parents basement themselves). Multiple ppl will threaten to cancel their multiple subscriptions & then appear to boil over with indignation when the "can I have your stuff" response is given as a matter of course.

By the 2nd or 3rd page, with the occasional input by someone new to the thread, it will have quickly decended into a series of often offtopic arguements between individuals usually reading as though they were arguing over who called the others mum fat first.

Eventually it will spiral so offtopic that the thread is closed by a moderator; at which point a new series of threads will be created in which much the same thing happens. After a few rounds of lock-restart threads process some people will start posting replies observing this process writing in a longwinded & somewhat smug manner indirectly implying their own detatchment (real or not) to the matter at hand. The net result is that General Discussion forum becomes a quagmire of locked & repeated topics for a couple days.

After the fires have burned themselves out, a CCP spokemam might dare to raise their head about the subject, which usually results in the whole process starting again. More likely theyll simply attempt to see if any good suggestions are made amoung the piles of rubbish, & quitely take them on board. The forum community quickly forgets what it was getting so hot & bothered about, & the usual threads about lag, high sec ganking, confusion over invention & Jita return to dominate the from page.

Sister Libertina
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [130]
 

Can I have everyones stuff?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Dr Paithos
Oh and you should have carried some backup shoes and not used your important shoes to do unimportant things like go to Starbucks BLAMMO


In this case you don't need backups, you just kick the person who is trying to steal your shoes teeth in!Wink

Meiers
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Meiers on 06/12/2007 22:09:30
I would be p i s s e d if this happened to me. My boot file is missing or at least damaged, but i just get some sort of warning and windows boots up anyways.
Im paying for a product, and this product could have ****ed my computer really good for all i know.

I feel for those who started their computer this morning and nothing happened.

ViroRivyera
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [133]
 

Its really odd is everyone here using "normal" copies of XP. Because im not using a "normal" copy of XP and everything is working fine and dandy even after the premium update...

Cricketz
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:09:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: vextorious
Many computers dont come with a restore CD.

Many computer users don't have an XP cd around to boot from

Many computer users dont even know about safemode.



Like anything, you need to protect your investment. If you don't backup, or care to learn how to fix/work on your own machine, then keep that checkbook ready.
I'll do the fix for 50 btw. =)

One other option actually. You could just stop using computers all together. Its the only way to be sure.

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:10:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Elenath on 06/12/2007 22:10:06
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
Originally by: Elenath
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
Originally by: Dr Paithos
Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41
Originally by: Xaroth Brook

read the last bit...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods

Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so.

Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige

Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be:
a) Interesting
b) Hilarious


from that nice CISGW post:

Quote:

Article 6
The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions.





What you apparently too clueless to understand (all legalese aside) is that whether the EULA covers this issue isn't the point. The point is that any company willing to use an EULA to cover for horrible quality assurance, poor programming, and horrible customer service (as you are apparently arguing) is only showing their true colors to their customers.

Once again, since you can't/won't read - the EULA is not a way out for stepping up to the plate and compensating customers out of a desire to run a quality company.

If CCP use the EULA as a way to get out of compensation they'll likely lose quite a few customers. Rightly so.


and that's why there were around 3000 more people online tonight than an average thursday evening?

people don't care about the EULA, read the link i put up before, be it for a good laugh as well.

However, i do agree that hiding behind the EULA isn't the thing to be done to avoid compensation... but seriously, for something as severe as this CCP has acted fast and with reliable sollutions (given that the first people were online at 2200, and were probably done downloading/installing at around 2300.. not more than 5 hours later ccp tracked down and identified the cause and acted to prevent it..)


More people being on tonight does nothing but show that many of the people excited about the expansion are likely using Vista, or have EVE on another partition. It doesn't prove your point at all.

That fact that some of you fanbois are so busy trying to say how CCP isn't to blame, or how awesome this expansion is is really amazing.

Once you kids leave home and don't throw your parent's credit card at a game subsrciption you'll start reflecting on customer service.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:11:00 - [136]
 

It'd look better for CCP if they did offer compensation to those affected, but they are not obliged to (as long as we assume that the EULA is legally binding).

I don't expect to see any compensation offered beyond the apologies already made.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:15:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche
Originally by: vextorious
As all you regular forum reader already know, there is a small contingent of users who do nothing but bash anyone that disagrees with CCP actions or policies.

This phenomenon is not limited to the eve forums, but rears is ugly head in just about every forum on the internet.

BUT! If you can sort through the mess, this thread has numerious high quality posts making good arguments for both sides. I suggest your read it through.


Whenever CCP sneeze, a predictable chain of events happen. Someone (usually lots of someones all aparently independantly unaware of all the others) posts a negative topic, coupled with demands for some form of reimbursement. This causes a mix of people who agree with said person, & those who disagree, to reply to said persons thread & voice their opinions with varying levels of eloquence & politeness.

Those who agree with the op (& often the op his/herself) turn on those who support CCP, or at least dont support the damands of those against, declaring them fanbois & using incrasingly crude, personal & offensive language to express that. Said 'fanbois' then respond by declaring the others trolls, morons etc & of course also use increasingly crude, personal & offensive language.

At some point someone will tell the OP to go back to WOW, the EULA will be brought up & torn apart by multiple people with little or no knowledge of legal documents. The assertion of people living in their parents basement will be used to somehow imply a moral superiority of those using it (who may or may not live in their parents basement themselves). Multiple ppl will threaten to cancel their multiple subscriptions & then appear to boil over with indignation when the "can I have your stuff" response is given as a matter of course.

By the 2nd or 3rd page, with the occasional input by someone new to the thread, it will have quickly decended into a series of often offtopic arguements between individuals usually reading as though they were arguing over who called the others mum fat first.

Eventually it will spiral so offtopic that the thread is closed by a moderator; at which point a new series of threads will be created in which much the same thing happens. The net result is that General Discussion forum becomes a quagmire of locked & repeated topics for a couple days.

After the fires have burned themselves out, a CCP spokemam might dare to raise their head about the subject, which usually results in the whole process starting again. More likely theyll simply attempt to see if any good suggestions are made amoung the piles of rubbish, & quitely take them on board. The forum community quickly forgets what it was getting so hot & bothered about, & the usual threads about lag, high sec ganking, confusion over invention & Jita return to dominate the from page.
This.


However I do demand compensation. If I don't recieve a new boot.ini file in my inbox within a few days I'm calling my fictional lawyer.

JabJabVVV
Burger Nip
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:15:00 - [138]
 

My goodness the nerd rage is strong in this thread and most of it by people who probably weren't even affected. If you were, then I'm sorry for you but try to get a sense of perspective here - People make mistakes and there was certainly no malicious intent. I know that the Zeitgeist dictates that 'zomg someone must pay for this, I'll see them in court' but that's really not a very nice way to behave. If I were in CCP's position then I would try to reimburse affected players with free game time; however that is their call to make and demanding it like it is some sort of right really is ridiculous.

To CCP, my condolences. An otherwise largely excellent patch release marred by a tiny mistake.

Fenderson
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:16:00 - [139]
 

what i would like to see in the way of compensation is a very open and detailed explanation of how this happened, and what structure has is being put in place to make sure it cannot happen again.

Mourn Navarre
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:16:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Rudi Storm
And how does anyone of you "compensation" fans intend to compensate the people who were really effected? Think about. There is no way you can know who was effected?


I'm glad someone pointed that out.

As for the original post, I have to say as someone who works in desktop support for a large enterprise company for too many years (and also someone who finally managed finally get up off the floor because of laughter), if CCP did this, then Microsoft should do the same for all the crappy patches they have\are putting out for XP & Vista that basically turn the machine into a paper weight. Not to mention manufacturers of devices that put out drivers that destroy Windows. But then, they'd be broke if they did that, wouldn't they?

Dr Paithos
Minmatar
Republic Deep Space Institute
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:16:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche
Social Commentary


Personally I am varying between sympathy for those affected and schadenfreude

I find the whole phenomenon surrounding it hilarious and I'm interested in what the actual legal situation is. I also suspect that there are no actual lawyers playing Eve, instead they're getting paid $100 per hour while getting some coffee.

It could be one of those legal areas where no-one knows Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

zattariss
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:19:00 - [142]
 

I don't have my install disks anymore. I've already lost everything on the pc and I now need to re-buy Windows XP. $90 down the drain. Wow.

Tressin Khiyne
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:20:00 - [143]
 

While we're at it....

Microsoft's Office 2007 caused my COD2 to cease working... I want my $50

Adobe's CS3 corrupted my Nero Suite's ability to burn widescreen DVDs, which it does much better than Encore... $150 there...

Windows ME ****ed my whole computer life up for about a month, and made a better coaster than an OS... $200

Vista trashed limewire, leaving me $9.99 in the hole... GIVE IT BACK!!!

On second thought, maybe I should only use programs from companies I trust... wait, I trust all those companies... and I trust CCP too... oh bother

Syraine
Amarr
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:20:00 - [144]
 

If you paid someone to perform a fix that CCP provided on their site and is easily found a lot of places on the Internet then that is on you. If you have no technical skills whatsoever, then you either learn or you pay someone to help you. You don't need a Computer Science degree to fix this problem. Having to pay for tech support is nobody's fault but your own.

The argument that not all PCs come with a recovery disk or windows install disk is crap. If you bought a full system, they come with them. If you built your own system, you had to install the OS using a disk.

If you installed EVE on a corporate PC, I am sure your company doesn't appreciate you loading games on their assets.

There is no physical damage done. Do you sue Microsoft every time your system crashes? Do you seek compensation when you get some sort of virus or other malware that causes your PC to crash?

If you are not technical, this problem crashed your only pc and you can't get on here to get an easy fix then call Microsoft. Unless you pirated their OS, I am sure they can walk you through putting your Windows XP disk into the drive and booting to it so that it can repair the file.

You people act like CCP kicked your dog down the stairs, stole your spouse, blew up your car and set your house on fire.

(before you cry fanboi) YES! They screwed up! YES! It is CCP's fault. Get over it! It happens, everyone makes mistakes.

Sister Libertina
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:22:00 - [145]
 

For the fanbois to try saying it is the users fault for not backing up our computers or for not spending our entire lives sat in a darkened room squeezing spots and learning everything there is to know about windows is absurd! CCP made a mistake. Clearly it is their fault that the boot.ini file has (in some cases) gone awol. I am not suggesting that CCP is liable for compensation, but it really gets my goat the way the fanbois assume that everyone knows operating systems inside out and that CCP is not to blame. They're never going to give you a job anyway so why bother.

Mourn Navarre
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:25:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: zattariss
I don't have my install disks anymore. I've already lost everything on the pc and I now need to re-buy Windows XP. $90 down the drain. Wow.


Which you would have had to done if your hard drive ever crashed.

Mourn Navarre
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:25:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Tressin Khiyne
While we're at it....

Microsoft's Office 2007 caused my COD2 to cease working... I want my $50

Adobe's CS3 corrupted my Nero Suite's ability to burn widescreen DVDs, which it does much better than Encore... $150 there...

Windows ME ****ed my whole computer life up for about a month, and made a better coaster than an OS... $200

Vista trashed limewire, leaving me $9.99 in the hole... GIVE IT BACK!!!

On second thought, maybe I should only use programs from companies I trust... wait, I trust all those companies... and I trust CCP too... oh bother


You must work in tech support. Laughing

zattariss
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:26:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Mourn Navarre
Originally by: zattariss
I don't have my install disks anymore. I've already lost everything on the pc and I now need to re-buy Windows XP. $90 down the drain. Wow.


Which you would have had to done if your hard drive ever crashed.


Thats cool, but my hard drive did not crash.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:28:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Sister Libertina
For the fanbois to try saying it is the users fault for not backing up our computers or for not spending our entire lives sat in a darkened room squeezing spots and learning everything there is to know about windows is absurd! CCP made a mistake. Clearly it is their fault that the boot.ini file has (in some cases) gone awol. I am not suggesting that CCP is liable for compensation, but it really gets my goat the way the fanbois assume that everyone knows operating systems inside out and that CCP is not to blame. They're never going to give you a job anyway so why bother.
There are always going to be some who believe you should know how to use the things you rely on. Though they don't actually all live in basements, though I know how much that thought must make you feel better about yourself.

Horas Redwyne
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.12.06 22:28:00 - [150]
 

Lets sing together...

Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.

So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath

Life's a piece of ****
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...

Afraid some of you "legal" guys wont sue me for the copyright violation. Razz


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