open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked HDR and Anti-Aliasing
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Trilium Eagle
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.11.29 23:39:00 - [1]
 

Is there any plan for add this capability for this client?

There are at least two graphic card families that support this:
GF 8xxx and Radeon 38x0.

It would be really nice to have both enabled at once.

TheEasterBunny
Posted - 2007.11.30 00:24:00 - [2]
 

The radeon x1x00 and hd2x00 series also support it, I think the 7900 series does but I don't remember.


If you can't enable it in more conventional eve ways, some people have had success in other games by using the oblivion HDR+AA fix, sometimes even renaming the game exe to enable the driver-forced AA in the game. Don't know how eve would respond to it though.

achoura
Posted - 2007.11.30 00:28:00 - [3]
 

If your hardware supports it you can use it, but it's buggy atm. Just force it.

Arktiger
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.30 00:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: achoura
If your hardware supports it you can use it, but it's buggy atm. Just force it.



Doesn't work Forced on my 8800 GTX.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.11.30 01:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Arktiger
Originally by: achoura
If your hardware supports it you can use it, but it's buggy atm. Just force it.



Doesn't work Forced on my 8800 GTX.



Same here, 8800GTX.

If anyone got it to work, which drivers and settings do you use?

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.11.30 02:34:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Arktiger
Originally by: achoura
If your hardware supports it you can use it, but it's buggy atm. Just force it.



Doesn't work Forced on my 8800 GTX.




Weird thing is on my 8800GTX with AA forced I went ahead and enabled HDR. Worked fine except somehow the AA seemed to just stop working. Turned HDR off and AA worked again. Haven't a clue how that is working.

lag kills
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2007.11.30 02:47:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Arktiger
Originally by: achoura
If your hardware supports it you can use it, but it's buggy atm. Just force it.



Doesn't work Forced on my 8800 GTX.




Weird thing is on my 8800GTX with AA forced I went ahead and enabled HDR. Worked fine except somehow the AA seemed to just stop working. Turned HDR off and AA worked again. Haven't a clue how that is working.


i get the same thing on my radeon x1900xt.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2007.11.30 06:19:00 - [8]
 

Yeah it would be nice to have them both work at the same time I bought a 8800gts for a reason and it wasn't to have sub-par graphics because the engine is stupid.

Taius Pax
Posted - 2007.11.30 06:30:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Weird thing is on my 8800GTX with AA forced I went ahead and enabled HDR. Worked fine except somehow the AA seemed to just stop working. Turned HDR off and AA worked again. Haven't a clue how that is working.


EVE is probably using the DX9 built-in HDR shader that Microsoft provides in the API. It conflicts with AA. Most games that have HDR and AA with no problem have written their own HDR shader and don't use the one Microsoft supplied.

Trilium Eagle
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.11.30 07:50:00 - [10]
 

This is possible. I guess that it would explain why any forced AA is disabled when you enable HDR. I may try trick with oblivion, not sure if EVE will run with modified exe name though.

Sheila Chandra
Posted - 2007.11.30 11:54:00 - [11]
 

For ATI theres a simple solution to the problem when the driver disables AA even when its forced to be enabled. You need to disable Catalyst A.I., this is the driver part that changes settings based on the game with hardcoded settings to avoid known problems.

Im pretty sure theres something similar in the NVIDIA drivers, but dont ask me what its called there

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.30 12:40:00 - [12]
 

Only ATI 1k cards and above have true support for AA and HDR. Nvidia use a botch-job solution which tends not to work in some games. For Nvidia users, you will have to wait for a driver update to use it in EVE.

Vardokian
Posted - 2007.11.30 13:51:00 - [13]
 

1.What is better to have enabled HDR or not?
2.Is AA better?
3.How do i find if it is AA forced on my radeon card?
4.What is the difference between shadows on the menu?
5.What is the difference between norma content and the premium?

I tried it but well couldnt see the difference thats why i ask.

My card is one of the newest and supports new content.

Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari
eNinjas Incorporated
Posted - 2007.11.30 14:09:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/11/2007 14:12:27
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/11/2007 14:10:40
Originally by: Grez
Only ATI 1k cards and above have true support for AA and HDR. Nvidia use a botch-job solution which tends not to work in some games. For Nvidia users, you will have to wait for a driver update to use it in EVE.

Bullcrap.

I have an nVidia 8800GTS, and I can vouch for the fact that AA+HDR works perfectly on it, and all other 8000 series. (EDIT: Well, not in EVE, but then AA+HDR doesn't work in EVE any card, nvidia or ati)
nNvidia 7000 series and earlier didn't support AA+HDR, but there's never been a "botch job" by nvidia that means AA+HDR works in some games and not others.

Games programmer talking.

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.30 14:13:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Grez on 30/11/2007 14:19:38
Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand
Originally by: Grez
Only ATI 1k cards and above have true support for AA and HDR. Nvidia use a botch-job solution which tends not to work in some games. For Nvidia users, you will have to wait for a driver update to use it in EVE.

Bullcrap.

I have an nVidia 8800GTS, and I can vouch for the fact that AA+HDR works perfectly on it, and all other 8000 series.
nNvidia 7000 series and earlier didn't support AA+HDR, but there's never been a "botch job" that means AA+HDR works in some games and not others.




Sigh. A botch job doesn't mean "IT DOESNT WORK EVER LULZ". It means its working, but not properly.

They they need to release new drivers to allow most games to support HDR & AA. Sure it works, and if you want to wait for drivers then go ahead. Currently, afaik, only ATI have cards that properly support HDR and AA without the need for drivers.

Nvidia's architecture means that some of the routines used when AA and HDR are on, don't get processed properly - whereas ATI cards don't have this problem. As far as I'm aware, the next batch of Nvidia cards don't have this problem.

It all stems down to their 128-bit HDR rendering support and the chip's new anti-aliasing methods (CSAA, I think it's called).

And what a surprise, I also work for a games company (as a software engineer).

Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari
eNinjas Incorporated
Posted - 2007.11.30 22:45:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/11/2007 23:01:31
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/11/2007 22:57:25
CSAA (Coverage Sample AA) has to be explicitly enabled, if the application just enables AA they get MSAA (Multisample AA), at least according to the docs.
I wouldn't be surprised if CSAA could cause problems for HDR rendering, depending on whether the shaders are run for each colour sample or coverage sample.

Ditto for 128-bit render-targets (aka 32-bit FP), I'd expect games to use 64-bit (aka 16-bit FP) render-targets, considering the minor difference in quality, and the memory and probable performance hit.

If you can give me an example of a game that doesn't support HDR+AA on the 8800, other than EVE Trinity (which to be fair is beta), with evidence and reasons why it doesn't work, it would help your case.

EDIT: I confirm that forcing AA in the nVidia drivers is ignored with EVE Trinity's HDR setting enabled. I haven't seen this in any other game, even Oblivion, which specifically disallows you from setting HDR+AA using the game's own settings.

breadcat
Hedion University
Posted - 2007.11.30 22:55:00 - [17]
 

You can only enable HDR & AA in DX9 at the same time by using some driver haxx. Officialy it's only supported in DX10.

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2007.11.30 23:14:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Simplus Massive on 30/11/2007 23:16:35
I promise to chop off my right arm (well...) if anyone or any company gets AA + HDRI working simultaneously on a 8800GTX @ Vista.

I, just as everyone else here have tried everything from forcing through NVIDIA's Control Panel, forcing through nHancer, switching quality modes on shadows & HDR, advancedDevice=1 & whatnot. Still.., AA switches off as soon as HDR goes on. Sigh... Is this some sort of "anti-feature", expected to be permanent after the Trinity release?

As I have read in a couple of posts including some very nice screenies, a couple of you out there have actually got AA+HDR working, right, even if it's not 'officialy' supposed to? Which card are you running? What haxx are you running? It can't be a NVIDIA card, can it? If it is, please, for the love of everything, tell us more about it!

I've read this post & a couple of others on the issue. Where is the bottleneck? NVIDIA driver code? CCP HDRI code? Both? I mean: who should we bother with this? The guys at Valve got their AA+HDRI together nicely with HL way back with some ninja-coding that allowed for both to run, and it sure works nice. Oblivion also got it through some patch as far as I know. Should we hope for something similar perhaps?

Why on earth would it not be supported? Would our boxes BSOD & burn if we were able to run a little HDR & say, 2xAA? Is this an issue at all for the majority out there, or is it just me who casually am actually expecting this to work right out of the box on high-end cards coupled with high-end puters with supposedly high-end games? Most likely.

Thanks anyway & have a nice weekend.

Captain Evil
Gallente
Gray Rogue Squadron
STRAG3S.INC
Posted - 2007.11.30 23:19:00 - [19]
 

Ive got a 8800 GTX and Ive tried to force the AA through the nvidia control panel, but since i totally dont know how to do it, could someone explain how one do it? Do i have to use multisampling? Someone take a screenshot or something? :)

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2007.11.30 23:29:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Captain Evil
Ive got a 8800 GTX and Ive tried to force the AA through the nvidia control panel, but since i totally dont know how to do it, could someone explain how one do it? Do i have to use multisampling? Someone take a screenshot or something? :)


One way to do it is to go to 'NVIDIA Control Panel' > '3D Settings' > 'Global Settings' > 'Antialiasing - Mode' > 'Override any application setting'.

Then select the level of AA you want in 'Global Settings' > 'Antialiasing - Setting' > 4x (for example).

Have fun!

Captain Evil
Gallente
Gray Rogue Squadron
STRAG3S.INC
Posted - 2007.12.01 11:04:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Captain Evil on 01/12/2007 11:05:49
Do i also need to put that advanceDevice=1 into the pref.ini?
what about that transparancy thingy?

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2007.12.01 11:42:00 - [22]
 

advanceDevice=1 is not necessary, it is currently useless on SiSi. About the transparency thingy: play around with it & see if you notice any improvement, if you don't, leave it alone. Here is a short description from the nHancer application on what they do:

"Anti-Aliasing smoothes the image by removing jaggies. Click here for a visual comparison of all the modes: www.nhancer.com/?dat=d_AAPres

Transparency AA is an option used together with normal Anti-Aliasing modes. It improves the edges within transparent textures (textures with "look-through" holes, like grates or fences).

There are two ways to implement Transparency AA: by using multisampling or supersampling."


Anti-Aliasing: Transparency Anti Aliasing (multisampling)

"This mode uses multisampling which hardly costs any performance, but also only slightly improves the image quality in most games."


Anti-Aliasing: Transparency Anti Aliasing (supersampling)

"This mode uses supersampling which costs a little performance (up to 10%) and usually improves the image quality of most games quite visibly."

Captain Evil
Gallente
Gray Rogue Squadron
STRAG3S.INC
Posted - 2007.12.01 18:54:00 - [23]
 

Can one use supersampling on the 8800 gtx?
and thx for that prog :)

BranBresil
Caldari
Evil Avatar Ltd.
Posted - 2007.12.01 19:03:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: BranBresil on 01/12/2007 19:06:02
nHancer works perfectly fine, the only thing is you have to ensure that "enhance in-game AA setting" is unchecked. Using it on my 8800GTX under Vista x64 Ultimate with the 169.12 drivers. THe 8000 series can do either MultiSampling or SusperSampling just fyi.

The AA + HDR fix is the same one that's used for Oblivion, Bioshock, all UE 3 engine games etc, all it would take to have it be applied directly from the nvidia control panel is for the devs to ask nvidia to mark the EVE exe as needing the right compatibility hex value I should think.

Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.12.01 20:51:00 - [25]
 

Only thing i have noticed when forcing AA etc is that the extreme shadow maps doesn't work anymore... High works fine tough.

Kw4h
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.01 20:53:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Sleepkevert
Only thing i have noticed when forcing AA etc is that the extreme shadow maps doesn't work anymore... High works fine tough.
Perhaps that's why I can't see a difference between high and 'extreme'. I have AA forced.

Let me try this. :)

Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.12.01 20:54:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kw4h
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Only thing i have noticed when forcing AA etc is that the extreme shadow maps doesn't work anymore... High works fine tough.
Perhaps that's why I can't see a difference between high and 'extreme'. I have AA forced.

Let me try this. :)
Well, my EVE actually refuses to start when i pick extreme shadows with AA enabled...

Kw4h
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.01 21:06:00 - [28]
 

Well. I see no difference still. Just the same shadows as on 'high'.
I wonder if someone is ever going to awnser the question about that :)

Captain Evil
Gallente
Gray Rogue Squadron
STRAG3S.INC
Posted - 2007.12.02 09:51:00 - [29]
 

Can one use supersampling on win XP 32bit version as well with the latest patch?

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2007.12.02 11:19:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Simplus Massive on 02/12/2007 11:48:36
I'm also having difficulty picking up any visual difference between the shadows to High/Extreme settings. The only notable change is a fair FPS hit running on the latter.

What is worse is that AA does not seemingly affect the edges of shadows on ships in my case; I get a nice & smooth look to everything exept the shadows, no matter which shadow mode I use. Also tried switching to various AA/Transparency modes but no luck. Shadow edges remain jagged.

Then there's the jagged texture edges, displacement of textures, low-res textures, etc but I think there is already another thread for that. I'm running on 8800GTX @ Vista.

Originally by: BranBresil
The AA + HDR fix is the same one that's used for Oblivion, Bioshock, all UE 3 engine games etc, all it would take to have it be applied directly from the nvidia control panel is for the devs to ask nvidia to mark the EVE exe as needing the right compatibility hex value I should think.


This sounds promising to say the least.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only