open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked The Ultimate 'Amarr Problem' Thread
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 ... : last (65)

Author Topic

PeacefullNub
Posted - 2007.12.03 00:32:00 - [631]
 

Originally by: Aranbaal

i have come here and said there are abaddon fits that work FACT, try goin out and figuring the fits out and see if they work or not

I dont even try to. If you read carefully my posts maybe you see that:
I never sayed that this fit is bad - i said that this fit usefull only for 1 goal.
And you still try to use 1 abaddon fit as proof that entire race is flawless and have no problems. Dont you honestly think its stupid and childish?
Analize abaddon (and all others bs with "laser_cap_reduction" bonuses) fits for ratting, mission running, solo pvp, close range pvp, long range pvp etc. And compare them with hyper\rokh\malestrom fits.
Yes - its allmost impossible (too many variations and opinions), and thats a reason why OP uses only 2 type of fit - long\close dps fits and full tanking fits.
And thats a reason why i dont whant to start smacktalk about your abaddon fit (do you realise how many fits have mega for example? and how difficult to compare them all?)
Originally by: Aranbaal

you will finally take of you blinkers and see what i am saying

Youre saying about fit for pvn abaddon - im saying about entire race.
Just curious - what sise of font need so you notice it? - it is allready 5th post where i try to get your attention to main problems of this tread (No - it is not about abaddon). And all Ive got "my pulse abaddon is great, you cannot denie that FACT"
Originally by: Aranbaal
rather than just have the whole i'm uber i'm right ur not amarr you are wrong attitude
.
I allways saed im a noobVery Happy I even create char with this nick, and i dont think its bad to know that im still learning something. But on the other hand - Ive got tied getting your attention to main point of this tread. If you cannot see it - it is not my problem anymore. Some people never chandgeSad. I leave you with your amarr alt and pvn abaddon in sweat onvictions that amarrs have no problems at all.
P.S. to all - sry for my bad english (difficult to disquss on foreign language)

Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.12.03 06:49:00 - [632]
 

Originally by: daemorhedron

[...]
And YES I DO PROUDLY fly amarr myself (amarr inty's rock, and apoc is one of my fav team ships around). I use them often, both solo and team, and they are ALWAYS a welcome addition to any team I'm on.
[...]


You have how many million skillpoints? Of course it is easy to argue that with max skills Amarr are competitive, of course it is easy to argue that Amarr have competitive battleships and capitals and of course it is easy to argue that noone has to fly Amarr. That only misses out on a few points.

Most players in EVE happen to have less than max skills. Or even less than max cap-related and ship skills. As many an Amarr ship has a bonus (laser-/cap-related) that makes a fitting viable if nothing else, with less than max skills you often draw a blank in terms of competitiveness. And please spare me the obvious "Train up, you nOOb!" answer. Why should Amarr players have to train up max skills when other races can do fine with less than those? Another point is not every player in EVE happens to be able to fly either battleships or even capitals for quite a while, so the (debatable) "uberness" of Amarr capitals for example does not affect the majority of the player base.

Quote:

[...]
For the millionth time:
1. Fix laser fittings.
2. Fix laser cap usage.
3. Give amarr ships a real bonus.
4. Argue other minutia later (most whining already fits into this category anyways).
[...]


I would even go one step back and sum it up towards:

"Make Amarr more competitive"

Though I won't hold my breath for it to happen. Lasers are borked for how long now? The Pilgrim needs a fix for how long now? The reloading issue with faction and Tech-2 crystals has been known for how long now? The Tracking Disruptors were a totally overpowered type of EW for how long now (so they required a nerf)?


Quote:

[...]
If amarr blow goats and are as useless as most of you claim, why are YOU flying their ships? Why are you 'a fully Amarr specced' character? I've worked my way to be able to fly all four races with confidence, why haven't you?
[...]


Well, I just fly the Amarr ships I don't see as useless or utterly uncompetitive. Thus I don't even bother to train up a single skillpoint for Amarr recons now any more. And I do crosstrain for Minmatar. Guess why? Not because of total Amarr uberness. I think we can easily agree that the necessity to crosstrain for the use of other race's ships or weapon systems is an absurdity.

Congrats on working up your way to fly all four races. Sincerely. Smile But allow me to say that I won't bother with that. I don't pay CCP an amount of money every month to be told (or rather not being told) that after getting some insight in the game I seemed to have chosen the wrong (as in "inferior") player race. And thus should spend some extra months just to get on par with other player races and STFU about it.

I read that in some Quarterly issue it was stated that Amarr players make up less than 15% of the player base. Maybe there lies the real issue why (Amarr) fixes take so long (if they are applied at all). ECM kinda ruled in 2006, got nerfed, gets a buff in 2007 now. So... how long ago did lasers totally rule? Because I see no buff at all forthcoming there.

Maybe almost half of the player base has characters of a certain race which thus gets more attention by CCP? I think many of the rather imperious and unbalancing demands for buffs to Amarr may have their reasons therein. The feeling of almost total neglect caused by being a minority, and, to some extent, the lack of communication from CCP. And, tbh, a big part of the non-Amarr part of the community is in no way helpful with this issue, too, IMHO. Confused

insidion
Caldari
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.03 08:00:00 - [633]
 

Edited by: insidion on 03/12/2007 08:04:54
Originally by: Dlardrageth

You have how many million skillpoints?



First off, just wanted to say gj on the excellent post. It's nice to see someone focusing on the issues instead of 'you (sux0rs|rule) because you (love|hate) amarr'. I currently have just over 35m sp which to some might sound like enough, BUT when you break it down I have pretty pathetic PVP skills compared to those who focus more on the DPS. Early on in my character's life, I made some key decisions. I realized that learning was mathematically a must, so I first maxed that out completely (5.76m sp in learning, almost made me quit eve right there, but I did it, and this was before the free SP and reduced learning changes so imagine how much that made me choke). Next, I realized that there was pretty much no way that I could effectively compete as a new fish in the pond, so I focused largely on ewar and support skills so that I could make already effective pilots on my team even better. From there I branched out into probing skills and eventually wasted a ton of SP in industry (seemed like a good idea at the time). The final decision that I made was to build my character as a jack of all trades rather than to specialize on any one specific race. I fly all t1 combat ships (all races), all t2 frigs (all races), all t2 cruisers (gallente only). So I can fly majority of ships but at the exclusivity of avoiding entire ship classes (capitals and command ships).

Regardless of all of that, I feel that amarr ships are not unusually skill intensive. The only issues that stand out to me are the ones that I've repeatedly mentioned and are the ones that just about everyone can agree on. I feel that these are essential and long overdue issues that really are easy to address.

Quote:

And I do crosstrain for Minmatar. Guess why? Not because of total Amarr uberness. I think we can easily agree that the necessity to crosstrain for the use of other race's ships or weapon systems is an absurdity.


I absolutely agree with you, however people need to realize that this is not an Amarr issue....frankly, this is 'life in eve'. Part of what sparked my initial urge to crosstrain was the simple fact that at the time, the Caldari ships that I could use were unavailable in the area of space my corp was hanging out in. Based on my 'experiment' of learning all four frig 5's, I would advise anyone to crosstrain for a wide variety of classes. I know I will. =)

Quote:

ut allow me to say that I won't bother with that. I don't pay CCP an amount of money every month to be told (or rather not being told) that after getting some insight in the game I seemed to have chosen the wrong (as in "inferior") player race


Aye, there's the rub. Again, you are absolutely right. It's possible that a ship or even a class can seem unappealing to people for a wide variety of reasons....costs, training, differences in playstyle, differences in ideology, you name it. But I must again dismiss that this is an Amarr specific issue. Some people will only fly BS, some will only fly inty's, some will only fly a certain race. The biggest issues that amarr face are the ones that I outlined. Addressing just those simple points would be MASSIVE strides towards a balanced solution where everyone is happy.

Quote:

I read that in some Quarterly issue it was stated that Amarr players make up less than 15% of the player base.

It's possible, but personally I've never felt a correlation between my race and what I fly, so I don't trust that to be accurate at all. I almost want to agree that Amarr are somehow a minority, but I can't recall the last time I flew in a gang that didn't have at least one amarr ship in it.

Quote:

And, tbh, a big part of the non-Amarr part of the community is in no way helpful with this issue, too, IMHO


Sadly true, but there's the dark side of the Amarr part of the community too. It's pretty clear when someone knows what they're talking about.

Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.12.03 22:10:00 - [634]
 

Bumping this for the love of Amarr...

Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2007.12.04 00:58:00 - [635]
 

I have to say I'm always heartened to see non-Amarr players affirming their own desire to see energy weaposn in this game fixed. They must understand how much better this game would be if an entire class of weapons were made at least a conceivable option again for ALL pilots. So why can't the devs?

If EVE is all about complexity and innovation, strategy and problem-solving using fittings and modules, how can CCP continue to allow an entire subset of weapon modules to languish, often forsaken even by their own race?

Oregon sinful
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 01:00:00 - [636]
 

When is this thread going to die? Amarr is the suck, train something else.

on the bright side you don't get nerfed!

/thread

PeacefullNub
Posted - 2007.12.04 10:18:00 - [637]
 

Originally by: Oregon sinful
When is this thread going to die?

Never while
Originally by: Oregon sinful
Amarr is the suck,

and we need to
Originally by: Oregon sinful
train something else.

show must go on!Very Happy
Originally by: Oregon sinful
on the bright side you don't get nerfed!

trueTwisted Evil

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.12.04 10:23:00 - [638]
 

Not one reply from ccp.. there all to chicken.. as they know it will make an avalange of reply`s back in an already big topic..


Law Enforcer
Still Undecided
Posted - 2007.12.04 10:48:00 - [639]
 

you guys have to remember that the average reply on sisi when people ***** about amarr is: "there's nothing wrong with amarr".
they're really that dense.

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 11:03:00 - [640]
 

Originally by: Law Enforcer
you guys have to remember that the average reply on sisi when people ***** about amarr is: "there's nothing wrong with amarr".
they're really that dense.


Thats the problem - they are ignoring Amarr in the hope the problem will go away. It wont, so they should do everyone a favor and refund wasted SP, or actually make an effort to listen about why their customers are complaining. All Amarr people want is *Competitive* weapons, not OMGBBQ. If devs think lasers are competitive, then that is a joke.

PeacefullNub
Posted - 2007.12.04 13:20:00 - [641]
 

I dont think devs ignoring problem - they have no reason to do so.
Looks like they just dont understand it.
Just like some non-amarr people here who just bought char with abaddon and never flyed different ships and different configs.
Of course its better for them first of all boost\nefr caldary\galente races - 65% of players vs 15%
Someday amarrs will be fixed properly... or entire race just disapeared becouse no one whant to play for them - horrible, but some sort of fixingSad
In any case im honored to be amarr - not many mans played on hard mode :)

Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.12.04 13:27:00 - [642]
 

Originally by: PeacefullNub
Originally by: Oregon sinful
on the bright side you don't get nerfed!

trueTwisted Evil

Actually, we suffered the NOS nerf to our recons more than any other race (possibly NOS Domis, but at least the Arazu and Lachesis are still 100% effective)...

Also, every nerf to nano hits Amarr, not primarily, but as a secondary function... The Zealot is just too slow without an OD, and the Absolution is a brick without a couple of Nanos...

Plus the EANM nerf hit Amarr pretty hard, making the so-called 'tanking race' harder to fit a tank.

So we get nerfed about as much as the other races, but don't get buffed as much... Rolling Eyes

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.12.04 13:30:00 - [643]
 

Wow, talk about clueless.

So much writing and so little actual content.

Khanid Mk II didn't come about just because it was a :walloftext: you know, you actually need to know what you're talking about to force change, and support it with actual evidence and not badly drawn conclusions.

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 13:42:00 - [644]
 

Protip: find naughty boys spreadsheet and work out your DPS calcs correctly with RANGE and TRACKING as a defining factor, and don't use ******ed setups like Neutron blasterdomis with no buffer...

You will find that the geddon is the best high-dps plate-gank gang ship in the game, followed by the mega and then the abaddon.

PeacefullNub
Posted - 2007.12.04 13:44:00 - [645]
 

Originally by: Felysta Sandorn

So we get nerfed about as much as the other races, but don't get buffed as much... Rolling Eyes

also true :)
We never get serious nefr but... we take hits from any other race boosts.
BTW khanid mk2 is some sort of nefr for amarr build - it forces us to learn additional (useless for us) skill group.
And even triniti patch gives us some minior nefr.

Testy Mctest - u need serious proof? read this devblog

Sofring Eternus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.12.04 14:19:00 - [646]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ
Protip: find naughty boys spreadsheet and work out your DPS calcs correctly with RANGE and TRACKING as a defining factor, and don't use ******ed setups like Neutron blasterdomis with no buffer...

You will find that the geddon is the best high-dps plate-gank gang ship in the game, followed by the mega and then the abaddon.


I doubt that takes into account agility or speed, but still, the problem really isnt with the energy weapons damage.
The problem is with the stupidly high fitting requirements on beams especially, but to a lesser extent pulses.
Also the stupidly high capacitor use on beams, and the slightly over high use on pulses.

If they fix that, I think you would see a reduction of Amarr whine threads to about the amount of the other races.

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 14:52:00 - [647]
 

Edited by: GO MaZ on 04/12/2007 14:57:49
Edited by: GO MaZ on 04/12/2007 14:57:06
Originally by: Sofring Eternus
Originally by: GO MaZ
Protip: find naughty boys spreadsheet and work out your DPS calcs correctly with RANGE and TRACKING as a defining factor, and don't use ******ed setups like Neutron blasterdomis with no buffer...

You will find that the geddon is the best high-dps plate-gank gang ship in the game, followed by the mega and then the abaddon.


I doubt that takes into account agility or speed, but still, the problem really isnt with the energy weapons damage.
The problem is with the stupidly high fitting requirements on beams especially, but to a lesser extent pulses.
Also the stupidly high capacitor use on beams, and the slightly over high use on pulses.

If they fix that, I think you would see a reduction of Amarr whine threads to about the amount of the other races.


It takes into account speed, tracking, range, even resistances and sig radius.

Also:

Thread Over Razz

Also pre-empting "what about the abbadon's cap problems?"

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 14:58:00 - [648]
 

Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 04/12/2007 15:22:22
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Khanid Mk II didn't come about just because it was a :walloftext: you know, you actually need to know what you're talking about to force change, and support it with actual evidence and not badly drawn conclusions.


Real world pvp scenario. Sniping mode, so they are fit for sniping each other at 170km. Since its real world PvP, and these fleets will be dodging bubbles, then the requirement is MWD's as well.

Megathorn (7764 Shield, 13551 Arm, 9375 Struct)
H: 7 X 425 II, Spike L
M: 100mn MWD, Cap Recharger II, 2 x Sensor Booster II
L: 3 x mag Stab, 2 x tracking Enhancer II, 1600 Tungstan, Internal Damage Control. (1cpu short for DC II)
Armour Resists 65.6% EM, 44.1% Thermal

Does approx 175 Kin DPS and 175 Thermal DPS rounding down. Cap lasts 5min, 4 Sec with constant fire. (53,200 Damage Thermal and 53,200 Damage Kinetic done in this time)


The Apoc (7764 Shield, 9375 Arm, 8301 Strut)
H: 8 x Tach II, Aurora L
M: 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor Booster II, Cap recharger II
L: 2 x RCU II, 1 x Heatsink II, 3 x Tracking Enhancer II, 1 x Damage Control II
Resists : 44.8% Thermal, 36.3% kinetic

Does 149 EM DPS, and 149 Thermal DPS, again rounding down. Cap lasts 6 min, 33 seconds
It Starts

Ok, first thing, you see the Apoc needs 3 tracking mods and the Mega still has a higher Optimal with 2 tracking mods. Secondly, the Apoc needs 2 RCU II (3 if you dont have max AWU skill), while the Mega needs none. Thirdly, The apoc lacks cpu to move a tracking enhancer to a tracking computer. Also, Apoc has worse tracking and worse falloff, so more Apoc shots will miss. Keep this in mind. Remember, there is no point comparing 3 damage mods on Apoc if the damm thing cannot fit it in the real world!

Now Apoc does 149EM DPS, 149 Thermal DPS. So that means on Apoc does total REAL damage on Armour of 66.1 EM DPS + 83.29 Thermal DPS = 149 TOTAL DPS on Armour.

Now the Mega does 175 kin DPS, 175 Thermal DPS, So that means the Mega does total REAL Thermal DPS of 96.6 + 111.4 Kin DPS = 208 REAL TOTAL DPS on Armour.

On Stucture, Apoc does 298 DPS, Mega does 350 DPS. Obviously, Damage controls turned on will result in even resistances, but the apoc has a DC II while the mega has a Internal, but that does not matter since the Mega does tons more dps than the apoc.

Anyhow, the above case study shows a few things.

1. mega does over a third more damage than the Apoc on Armour. The apoc does more DPS on shield of course, but since the apoc is fighting more in falloff than the mega, more if its shots will miss, so this should counteract the effect of slightly more dps on shield. And I mean it really is slightly more.

2. Apoc range broken.

3. Apoc Fittings broken. 2 RCU II (3 if not max skilled) is unreasonable.

4. Fitting and tracking mods use up all of the apocs lowslots, leaving very few for heatsinks/plates etc.

5. Apoc will miss more due to worse tracking and fighting more in falloff

6. Even if Apoc had no fitting issues, Damage output is pathetic

7. Mega has more Armour, more range, more damage, more agility more everything. It outclasses Apoc in every way.

Apoc is considered the most viable fleet ship, because it does not have cap problems due to its double cap bonus. If this is the most viable fleet ship, then something is seriously wrong with Amarr, as the other Amarr bs's run out of cap after a minture or two.

CONCLUSION - Mega Does OVER a Third more Damage than Apoc when both fit for the same job and outclasses it in every way


Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:15:00 - [649]
 

Originally by: Jonny JoJo

Real world pvp scenario.



I like where you're going with this, that sure would be a helpful comparison!

Quote:
Fleet of Gallente vs fleet of Amarr


Wait.....did you say real world or ******ed?

The rest of your post is null and void just for thinking that that is a viable argument.

Also because you've just posted the same as every Amarr whine since time immemorial, which I've been going over and debunking since you were probably still playing WoW, I wont bother telling you why your argument is flawed.

I will agree that the Apoc is crap for pvp, yes. It needs changing if it's meant to be used for PvP. It's a tanking ship and tanking ships dont do so well in PvP. However, you do have both the Geddon and the Abaddon which are great PvP BSes. If you can't understand the idiocy behind the logic that just because one of your ships is sub-par then ALL your BSes don't suck, then I'm just wasting my time.

I suggest you go back to some more real world PvP scenarios and then post again.

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:18:00 - [650]
 

Your meal started with crap:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

Real world pvp scenario. Fleet of Gallente vs fleet of Amarr. Sniping mode, so they are fit for sniping each other at 170km.


We then got onto a main course of crap:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

Megathorn (7764 Shield, 13551 Arm, 9375 Struct)
H: 7 X 425 II, Spike L
M: 100mn MWD, Cap Recharger II, 2 x Sensor Booster II
L: 3 x mag Stab, 2 x tracking Enhancer II, 1600 Tungstan, Internal Damage Control. (1cpu short for DC II)
Armour Resists 65.6% EM, 44.1% Thermal

The Apoc (7764 Shield, 9375 Arm, 8301 Strut)
H: 8 x Tach II, Aurora L
M: 100mn MWD, 2 x Sensor Booster II, Cap recharger II
L: 2 x RCU II, 1 x Heatsink II, 3 x Tracking Enhancer II, 1 x Damage Control II
Resists : 44.8% Thermal, 36.3% kinetic



And with a dessert of crap pie:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

2. Apoc range broken.



With a crap sauce:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

Apoc is considered the most viable fleet ship, because it does not have cap problems due to its double cap bonus. If this is the most viable fleet ship, then something is seriously wrong with Amarr, as the other Amarr bs's run out of cap after a minture or two.



I'd give this meal a 3/10, and suggest you call gordon ramsay to sort out your restaurant.

In fact never mind, you started off by comparing a megathron with an apoc in the first place so you get 0/10 and a sorry comiserations from our judges Crying or Very sad

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:19:00 - [651]
 

Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 04/12/2007 15:20:15
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

Real world pvp scenario.



I like where you're going with this, that sure would be a helpful comparison!

Quote:
Fleet of Gallente vs fleet of Amarr


Wait.....did you say real world or ******ed?

The rest of your post is null and void just for thinking that that is a viable argument.

Also because you've just posted the same as every Amarr whine since time immemorial, which I've been going over and debunking since you were probably still playing WoW, I wont bother telling you why your argument is flawed.

I will agree that the Apoc is crap for pvp, yes. It needs changing if it's meant to be used for PvP. It's a tanking ship and tanking ships dont do so well in PvP. However, you do have both the Geddon and the Abaddon which are great PvP BSes. If you can't understand the idiocy behind the logic that just because one of your ships is sub-par then ALL your BSes don't suck, then I'm just wasting my time.

I suggest you go back to some more real world PvP scenarios and then post again.


Actually, you are what you accuse me of. You are doing a random whine because you cannot be bothered to do the numbers yourself.

Go ahead, do the Numbers on Armageddon and Abaddon yourself, because i certainly have and its not exactly that much different. All have problems fitting and need multiple rcu's. Abaddon needs heavy Cap booster II + 20 Cap 800 charges so it can shoot for 5 minutes! Fit them for real world PvP. Abaddon is going to do 180ish DPS on armour REAL after resists, so it will still be less than the Mega.

And you claiming that my argument is null and void because I used Amarr vs Gallente? You cannot beat the argument because you know its correct. WTF you smoking dude!

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:20:00 - [652]
 

Originally by: Jonny JoJo

And you claiming that my argument is null and void because I used Amarr vs Gallente? You cannot beat the argument because you know its correct. WTF you smoking dude!


No, we're claiming that you're an idiot because you think that Amarr vs Gallente fleets are a real world PvP scenario.

Also because Apocs suck and we agree. Use something proper in your comparisons.

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:22:00 - [653]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ
Your meal started with crap:



It appears that you do like to talk crap. Do the numbers on Abaddon and Geddon for fleet fights. I chose the apoc because it was the same Teir.

Oh and here is the FUNNY part - If the Apoc used Another races Weapons, it would do more DPS due to better fitting!

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:26:00 - [654]
 

Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 04/12/2007 15:27:40
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Jonny JoJo

And you claiming that my argument is null and void because I used Amarr vs Gallente? You cannot beat the argument because you know its correct. WTF you smoking dude!


No, we're claiming that you're an idiot because you think that Amarr vs Gallente fleets are a real world PvP scenario.

Also because Apocs suck and we agree. Use something proper in your comparisons.


Amarr vs gallente is words that has no meaning, as I was refering to ships wihthin the fleet and not exclusively fleets 100% of those types (though RP corps may do this). Therefore you are doing Ad Hominim. But I have removed the word Amarr and the word Gallente therefore your exceuse is Fail.

Next, Apoc is crap. Abaddon and geddon suffer same problem as apoc, bit more damage at the expense of not being able to shoot after a minute or two due to no cap. Do the numbers and you will see. I already have

Magazaki
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:28:00 - [655]
 

Edited by: Magazaki on 04/12/2007 15:29:00
First of all, let me disclaim that I DO BELIEVE THAT AMARR NEED A BOOST. There I said it. A small boost and for not all ships (apoc first and most of the %cap reduction for laser ships), but a boost nonetheless.

That said...

The OP analysis is borderline useless. You cannot compare raw dps numbers on theoretical fittings like that. I can even accept disregarding tracking. I can even accept sometimes using something like a semi-cookie-cutter fitting for everyone.

I can never, ever EVER accept the fact that you disregard range on the DPS comparison. It is so wrong that I cannot believe it. It is like giving the finger to the Rokh, Moa, Merlin, Harpy, Ferox, Eagle along with every other ship in the game that gets an optimal bonus. Fortunately this is not the case.

Pulses have big optimals. The armageddon's greatness does not come from its DPS alone, which is decent, it comes from the range it can put it in. Same for the blasterokh. Your analysis does not show the fact that a pulsegeddon is arguably the best damagedealer for a small gang, or that a blasterokh ends up higher in killmails than the megathron or the hyperion even if it does less damage just because it starts shooting earlier. Or that torpravens do meh in numbers but worse in reality because they get between 1-3 lost volleys per target.

I must give you 9/10 points for effort, but I don't like the fact that you disregarded factors to "prove" your points better.

Tomato Ketchup
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:28:00 - [656]
 

Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: GO MaZ
Your meal started with crap:


Oh and here is the FUNNY part - If the Apoc used Another races Weapons, it would do more DPS due to better fitting!


No it wouldn't because the other race would have a damage bonus.

You sir, are a n00b.

Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:30:00 - [657]
 

Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 04/12/2007 15:31:12
Originally by: Tomato Ketchup
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: GO MaZ
Your meal started with crap:


Oh and here is the FUNNY part - If the Apoc used Another races Weapons, it would do more DPS due to better fitting!


No it wouldn't because the other race would have a damage bonus.

You sir, are a n00b.


you sir, are a n00bier noob. I said the apoc would do more REAL damage on armour with another races weapons than Lasers due to better fitting ( To the brainless, this means more damagemods insted of RCU II's for example).

BrainSTROM - Apoc has no laser Damage bonus. Therefore you just made yourself look a idiot without doing your homework first.

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:30:00 - [658]
 

Edited by: GO MaZ on 04/12/2007 15:38:32
Edited by: GO MaZ on 04/12/2007 15:32:33
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: GO MaZ
Your meal started with crap:



It appears that you do like to talk crap. Do the numbers on Abaddon and Geddon for fleet fights. I chose the apoc because it was the same Teir.

Oh and here is the FUNNY part - If the Apoc used Another races Weapons, it would do more DPS due to better fitting!


Tier means nothing.

The Abaddon excels when it's fitted with megapulse and a massive plate tank. It's quite obvious from its bonuses that it's not really designed for sniping.
The Armageddon is equivalent to the mega in almost every way, both close and long range, and the Hyperion has a niche role as a solo blasterboat and a mediocre sniper, where the Apocalypse is a tank boat and also a mediocre sniper. Welcome to probably the two most balanced battleship races in eve, sirs.

And in the spirit of this thread's use of poorly construed facts to prove a point, I present to you the ONLY evidence you need to understand why Amarr don't suck

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:32:00 - [659]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ

And in the spirit of this thread's use of poorly construed facts to prove a point, I present to you the ONLY evidence you need to understand why Amarr don't suck


That graph colslusively proves that Amarr need a nerf, since they have the only Tier 1 BS that can snipe effectively - in fact, it has OVER 50% MORE DPS than the next nearest Tier 1 ship!

Alpha Type
Gallente
Childhood's End
Posted - 2007.12.04 15:33:00 - [660]
 

Edited by: Alpha Type on 04/12/2007 15:41:34
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
words


Clearly amarr need nerfed for sniping.

(I used the same impeccable logic as your Mega vs. Apoc post, by the way)


Pages: first : previous : ... 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 ... : last (65)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only