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blankseplocked I think CCP is p***ed with us.
 
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Benilopax
Gallente
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:13:00 - [1]
 

Ive been looking at a lot of the "OMG WTF CCP NERFARAMA" threads today and noticed that the devs are leaving sarcastic,****ed off comments. To be honest I don't blame them, there seems to be a bad case of affairs on the forums these days, I don't know if it's new players or a general dissatisfaction. I myself have been and am annoyed with CCP due to certain things some of which will become apparent in due course. However I must say I have seen too many "eleventyones" recently.

I am always trying to pour oil on the water on these forums, but let me just say next time you hover over new topic or reply, take a deep breath and think will what I am about to type get an answer or help this situation? I leave you with this, look on the brightside, at least its been another fanfest without Hellmar announcing they sold up to SOE! Smile

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:15:00 - [2]
 

If I was CCP, I'd be ****ed at us too.

In before "WELL WE WOULDNT BE P1SSED IF THEY DIDNT SCEW OVER CARRIERS!!!11"

Shurikane
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:28:00 - [3]
 

When I joined EVE, I was pleased to see it had arguably the nicest, most helpful community of all the online games I ever played.

Two years down the line, I now deny I even play the game to people I speak with. The community has gained a notorious reputation that mirrors GameFAQs.

Benilopax
Gallente
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:33:00 - [4]
 

I too remember a time 3 years ago when the forum was much less hostile. I feel bad that I may have added to its downfall.

Gorebane
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:36:00 - [5]
 

Out of all the online games I've played, Eve has without a doubt the nastiest, most antisocial and elitist community of all of them. A lot of folks are nice, but the general impression a new starter gets isn't favorable.

It isn't helped by the fact general EVE policy actively promotes scamming, exploiting, piracy, theft, griefing etc etc etc.

However, all contact I've had with EVE staff has always been with pleasant, well spoken and kind individuals.

I think the problem is the monster and not Dr. Frankenstein himself Wink

Gone'Postal
Roast and Toast Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:37:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gone''Postal on 08/11/2007 15:37:43
What do you expect from a game that brings out the darkest desires of human nature.. Hell I think a few players would **** the damsal(sp?) if the game had the option too.

Benilopax
Gallente
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:41:00 - [7]
 

Well this is certainly a nice friendly debate, hope yet for us all?

Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:42:00 - [8]
 

As customers, we have a right to whine, within reason.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:42:00 - [9]
 

Around the time Revelations hit the forums seemed to turn into one big whine fest. While there had always been such threads before it seems to have become the norm for people to moan about pretty much everything ingame and even stuff that's not yet been added.

Wouldn't blame CCP for being a little fed up with the general attitude here tbh.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:02:00 - [10]
 

You think they seek a company of kiss asses?

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:05:00 - [11]
 

Well I suppose this will be the "omfg we wouldnt be angry if blah blah blah blah..." post in a sense.

See from my point of view this really comes down to the value of a sandbox environment, the freedom, the engenuity, the ideas and so on.
It's all great and fun that more space is added to the sandbox, and it's okay too if you board of holes in the sandbox.

The problem comes along when you've built yourself a great, great sandcastle, you've chisled out the details, added water to stabilize it, and spent hours making it, maybe even a few days, and then the owner of the sandbox comes along and destroys the whole thing. He then tells you :

"Oh I'm sorry, but you're building the wrong way, it's too effective and the new sandbuilders feel left out on how you did it..so from now on, when you build, it has to be within these boundaries. That means all the planning you put in, is useless now, you have to find a new way. That alright with you?"

Does that sound like something that would make you smile, be happy and feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.
This universe called EVE, is a big, HUGE universe with it's own life and creation. The amount of things that have been accomplished in this game through will, passion, teamwork, sneakiness, backstabbing, trust, determination and hard work, absolutely astonishes me everytime I sit down and think about it.

It is the creation we have all made and built for ourselves the way we wanted it to be. And if there's something we don't like, we change it on our own.

There will undoubtedly be those who say "But I'm only a 3 months old player, on my own, how the hell can I make a difference?? It's unfair!!". To you I say: Then you're not thinking big enough, or outside the box. You're the kind of person who want things done FOR YOU, so you don't have to put any effort in, or think for yourself for a change.
You can do whatever you want to, if you really want to..you need money? go make some, theres plenty of ways.
You need muscle? Go join a corp that has it.
Your muscle are a bunch of lame *******s? Cope with it, do something about it, or find another corp.
You want a ship? Do the work it takes to get it.

The list goes on, and it's filled with simple answers that, unfortunately, too many people are unwilling to deal with, so they complain until it gets fixed or done for them in one manner or the other.

My point? My point is that I've played this game for 3 years now, without a single break from the game. This is the ONE game, I've played for so long as I have, and I've been a gamer all my life ever since I sat down with my first weird machine I can't remember the name of, and played Ping Pong.

I play this game, and have been playing this game as long as I have, because of the freedom I have in this game. The possibilities are endless if you really cared to think about it without trying to come up with a smart sounding reply.
The game is likewise intelligent, and usually (note: USUALLY) genuine stupid people, are driven away from the game.

The game itself might be rough around the edges, have imbalances, have oddities, but so does real life. No I won't compare, but it's the imbalances from completely useless, to the ultimate power in the universe and the imbalances of those inbetween races in all kinds of ways that does something very grandous and spectacular to the game:

It makes it feel ALIVE, and EXCITING. It gives you food for thought and ponderings on how to deal with whatever you're up against, cause it's so dynamic and realistic in the way things are built.
I fend for the organic and exciting feeling of the game, viciously if I have to, because it's one of the ONLY games left in the ENTIRE gaming industry, worth playing for more then 1 week, and sometimes, it feels like it's under attack and it's the last bastion of good gaming you have.

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:14:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria
The problem comes along when you've built yourself a great, great sandcastle, you've chisled out the details, added water to stabilize it, and spent hours making it, maybe even a few days, and then the owner of the sandbox comes along and destroys the whole thing. He then tells you :

"Oh I'm sorry, but you're building the wrong way, it's too effective and the new sandbuilders feel left out on how you did it..so from now on, when you build, it has to be within these boundaries. That means all the planning you put in, is useless now, you have to find a new way. That alright with you?"

Does that sound like something that would make you smile, be happy and feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.


The analogy does not extend far enough. What if your sandcastle becomes the ONLY sandcastle anyone will build because it is so awesome? It's a sandbox right? There should be creativity in designs. Different sand castles for different purposes. But when your sandcastle edges out all others the sandbox is really no longer a sandbox. Creativity and diversity have been lost. Eventually it gets boring.

Yeah, when they undo your sandcastle it is no fun to you but you have to think in larger terms. Think past YOUR sandcastle to the sandbox as a whole. If the overall sandbox is improved then knocking down your sandcastle is a good thing. Of course you can argue that your sandcastle was fine and not ruining anything but that is a different discussion.

Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:23:00 - [13]
 

Watching a cat take a crap in a sandbox was all it took for me to stop playing in them.


Benilopax
Gallente
The Ashen Lion Syndicate
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Cadela Fria
The problem comes along when you've built yourself a great, great sandcastle, you've chisled out the details, added water to stabilize it, and spent hours making it, maybe even a few days, and then the owner of the sandbox comes along and destroys the whole thing. He then tells you :

"Oh I'm sorry, but you're building the wrong way, it's too effective and the new sandbuilders feel left out on how you did it..so from now on, when you build, it has to be within these boundaries. That means all the planning you put in, is useless now, you have to find a new way. That alright with you?"

Does that sound like something that would make you smile, be happy and feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.


The analogy does not extend far enough. What if your sandcastle becomes the ONLY sandcastle anyone will build because it is so awesome? It's a sandbox right? There should be creativity in designs. Different sand castles for different purposes. But when your sandcastle edges out all others the sandbox is really no longer a sandbox. Creativity and diversity have been lost. Eventually it gets boring.

Yeah, when they undo your sandcastle it is no fun to you but you have to think in larger terms. Think past YOUR sandcastle to the sandbox as a whole. If the overall sandbox is improved then knocking down your sandcastle is a good thing. Of course you can argue that your sandcastle was fine and not ruining anything but that is a different discussion.


I can see the point in both posts but have to agree with the less cookie cutter, more swapping out for new tasks idea.

Leroy Payne
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:28:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.



boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.

Saint Luka
Altruism.
Darkness Rising Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Saint Luka on 08/11/2007 16:28:55
Originally by: Tarminic
"WELL WE WOULDNT BE P1SSED IF THEY DIDNT SCEW OVER CARRIERS!!!11"

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Cadela Fria
The problem comes along when you've built yourself a great, great sandcastle, you've chisled out the details, added water to stabilize it, and spent hours making it, maybe even a few days, and then the owner of the sandbox comes along and destroys the whole thing. He then tells you :

"Oh I'm sorry, but you're building the wrong way, it's too effective and the new sandbuilders feel left out on how you did it..so from now on, when you build, it has to be within these boundaries. That means all the planning you put in, is useless now, you have to find a new way. That alright with you?"

Does that sound like something that would make you smile, be happy and feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.


The analogy does not extend far enough. What if your sandcastle becomes the ONLY sandcastle anyone will build because it is so awesome? It's a sandbox right? There should be creativity in designs. Different sand castles for different purposes. But when your sandcastle edges out all others the sandbox is really no longer a sandbox. Creativity and diversity have been lost. Eventually it gets boring.

Yeah, when they undo your sandcastle it is no fun to you but you have to think in larger terms. Think past YOUR sandcastle to the sandbox as a whole. If the overall sandbox is improved then knocking down your sandcastle is a good thing. Of course you can argue that your sandcastle was fine and not ruining anything but that is a different discussion.


Again, that is a matter of balance, a thing I've argued against. If you can honestly tell me that only one type of "sandcastle" gets built, with a dignified look on your face, then I'm surprised.

There are all kinds built, all the time. Just because the big ones are very attractive and effective, doesn't justify their destruction or complete skewage of them. That's the whole POINT of really big ships, they cost a lot in manpower and minerals to build.

If you can't build something just as big or effective, build what you can so that you can either have enough to defeat the big ship, or enough ships to make more money to build one of your own.

Let me put it down in one sentence: Why should a sandcastle be torn apart, just because of it's popularity and effectiveness? Why?

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.



boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.


Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.

Elixibren
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:33:00 - [19]
 

Nah, you'll know they're ****ed when they cyno in a Jovian Titan to jita and execute the Jovian Doomsday. Shocked

Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:34:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 08/11/2007 16:34:55
Isn't CCPs aims with the Carrier changes to try and move them away from logistics, to more combat/ship carrying roles. I mean the whole thing about Zuluparks blog missed the fact it was a possible thing they were thinking of doing, and the changes to the cargo space mean they can still carry combat ships who have ammo and boosters in their hold.

Oh and yes if i was a CCP dev reading these forums wouldn't make me a happy bunny either given the very high ratio of whines/insulting posts > constructive criticism/politely worded useful posts

Lyn Z
Minmatar
The Nexus Foundation
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:36:00 - [21]
 

They're being very ****y today and banning people from the forums and all that.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:37:00 - [22]
 

CCP needs to put me in charge of moderation, I have an ample supply of sarcasm and rotting fish to beat these forums back into submission with Twisted Evil

Leroy Payne
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:38:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.



boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.


Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.


no i disagree wholly with your point of view and think you look like a whiny child using an adult's words. Does that make me a troll? maybe from your very limited perspective. The same limited perspective that has you whining about all these changes in the first place. Also it makes you look like an extremely sweaty nerd, from my perspective of course.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:41:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.



boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.


Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.


no i disagree wholly with your point of view and think you look like a whiny child using an adult's words. Does that make me a troll? maybe from your very limited perspective. The same limited perspective that has you whining about all these changes in the first place. Also it makes you look like an extremely sweaty nerd, from my perspective of course.


How very constructive. I see now you're completely right.

Gorebane
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:42:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria

I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.



boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.


Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.


no i disagree wholly with your point of view and think you look like a whiny child using an adult's words. Does that make me a troll? maybe from your very limited perspective. The same limited perspective that has you whining about all these changes in the first place. Also it makes you look like an extremely sweaty nerd, from my perspective of course.


No, he's right, you are a troll. His post was well thought out and coherent. Not once did he resort to childish name calling unlike yourself.

I think you'll find it is your perspective that is limited if you really look at yourself.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:42:00 - [26]
 

Perhaps we need another "Dear CCP" asskissing thread

SKUNK

Swedish Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:49:00 - [27]
 

People wouldn't be ****ed if CCP actually understood all the ramifications of their actions. If they want to make such a huge disruptive change they should introduce its replacement months in advance. It would make far more sense to introduce T2 freighters in Trin 2.0, then when Trin 2.1 rolls around do a nerf. That give producers enough time to get the ships rolling out. Also gives people without Freighter 5 trained (everyone) to train it up.

CCP still hasn't given a good reason for this being rushed out like this. I think its a case of marketing gone awry with them trying to stack too many changes on one patch.

Sarah McTeef
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:52:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 08/11/2007 16:53:09
CCP have absolutely no right to be ****ed off at it's paying customers. I should be able to do anything up to walk over and take a steaming dump on their front stoop and not get a reaction.

If they are getting teste, maybe they need to withdraw from the community. Get out of the forums and let people whine.

You can't get that way with your paying customers or you will start to run out of customers eventually.

If the devs are getting hurt because people are attacking their baby, which would be absolutely normal. They need to leave the forums for a few weeks, perhaps just most shouldn't post outside of dev blogs at allQuestion

Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:53:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 08/11/2007 16:53:55
Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 08/11/2007 16:53:39
Quote:
People wouldn't be ****ed if CCP actually understood all the ramifications of their actions. If they want to make such a huge disruptive change they should introduce its replacement months in advance. It would make far more sense to introduce T2 freighters in Trin 2.0, then when Trin 2.1 rolls around do a nerf. That give producers enough time to get the ships rolling out. Also gives people without Freighter 5 trained (everyone) to train it up.


CCP still hasn't given a good reason for this being rushed out like this. I think its a case of marketing gone awry with them trying to stack too many changes on one patch.




Or possible they make the most changes in expansions as they'll likely have more dedicated testing time devoted to it. Or at least that's how other games companies work, and more testing is done on expansions than on patches. So devs try to fit in as much as possible.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.11.08 16:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Sarah McTeef
If the devs are getting hurt because people are attacking their baby, which would be absolutely normal. They need to leave the forums for a few weeks.

Probably not a good idea considering they need feedback* regarding the various gameplay changes they want to add.

*By feedback I mean real feedback, not yelling or screaming


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