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blankseplocked The real differences/advantages between Missiles and Guns?
 
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Aylarg Montroose
Perkone
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:42:00 - [1]
 

Can anyone please explain to me why people use Guns. Because I swore when I first got some Blasters that I would be better off with light missiles.

In short, what are the Pros and Cons to Missiles and Guns?

GC13
Caldari
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.11.07 19:09:00 - [2]
 

Missiles are very forgiving when it comes to range, have good range to begin with (and can get +125% range max from non-ship skills, rather than +25%), and (almost) always do full damage to targets of at least the size they are meant to do.

Turrets can dish out more damage once you get into their range, and have the benefit of not having a flight time to reach the target, getting the damage done RIGHT AWAY. Also, while missiles gain better range from their skills, guns gain better damage. Also, in addition to the better native DPS on a turret, you'll find more often bonuses to turret damage than you will to missile damage, though that's race-dependent really. Turrets are also better at damaging small targets, so long as you can slow the little guy down.

With the upcoming boost to torpedoes though, they will remain VERY competitive with damage, while still maintaining a healthy range for pvP.

DaveW
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.07 21:09:00 - [3]
 


An important feature of missiles is that your aspect to the target dosen't matter. You'll get equal damage no matter where it is relative to your ship.

With guns, you need to be pointed almost directly at (or away) from your target or you begin to have problems with Transverse Velocty. (crossing speed) Yes, there are mods that will help you but thats a slot that could be used for something else.

If your going to go with guns, you have to go 'all the way'. Half trained Gunnery Skills are a waste of time.

Captain Schmungles
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2007.11.08 00:56:00 - [4]
 

Missiles:

Pros

Unless your target is going really really fast (and I do mean really really fast), a missile will always hit the target provided that it is in range.

Your motion relative to the target has no affect on the damage the missile will do.

A missile does not have "optimal range." It will do the same damage to a target so long as the target is at or within whatever the missile's maximum range is.

Cons

Does not deal instant damage

Much lower dps than guns

Does not deal instant damage (this is a BIG drawback, hence the reason for stating it twice)

Can be shot down. This isn't so much something that you'll see in pvp, but npc's just spam ridiculous amounts of defenders.

Guns

Pros

Deal instant damage (pretty important. I use missiles a lot, and I started training guns precisely because I was tired of waiting for the missiles to fly to the target and seeing them get shot down all the time.)

Skills and bonuses can significantly increase your damage-dealing ability.

Every shot has a chance to hit because no one can shoot down your bullets.


Cons

With guns you really need to invest a lot of training time to make them functional. Missiles work pretty well "out of the box," guns improve SIGNIFICANTLY as you train skills and become able to use t2 stuff.

Guns do not do the same damage with every shot. Damage (or whether you hit the target at all) is affected by transverse velocity and range. Depending on the type of ship you are engaging you may not be able to keep the target at your optimal range or slow the target down enough to mitigate transverse velocity.

Leora Nomen
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.08 02:56:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Leora Nomen on 08/11/2007 02:58:00

Ships that have a lot of missile slots (caldari) generally also have more mid slots than low slots and tank with shield. Shield mods take up mid slots, so they can't really fit e-war of any kind without weakening their tank. Ships that tank with armor generally have enough mid slots for e-war but their hardpoints are turret kind. So if you're out pirating alone, for example, you can fit a web and disruptor onto a missile ship but your tank will automatically suck much more so.

Missiles also take time to reach their target, so they are not great for sniping. And they do less damage than guns in their optimal range, as in EVE long range weapons automatically can't deliver as much dps (that's your payoff for range you get).

Using guns requires more player skill in directing your ship. Missiles on the other hand will hit as long as your target is in range. As such, new players often find they like missiles more than guns because they are easier to use.

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.11.08 08:40:00 - [6]
 

A couple of points that are kind-of correct but phrased misleadingly:
Originally by: DaveW
With guns, you need to be pointed almost directly at (or away) from your target or you begin to have problems with Transverse Velocty. (crossing speed) Yes, there are mods that will help you but thats a slot that could be used for something else.

The direction your ship is facing does not affect your turrets' chances to hit. The chance to hit is based on the size of the target and their transversal velocity relative to you (plus your turret's base stats for sig resolution and tracking of course). I think what you're getting at here may be that flying directly away from someone makes it harder for them to orbit and lowers their transversal ( = easier to hit), but it is not the only way to decrease transversal; nor will it always work (and by that token, flying directly at a target will increase their transversal making them harder to hit!). More importantly it is just wrong to say you need to do this. Fighting against larger targets, you will be able to track them almost regardless of what both ships do because they are just so big. With a weapon range longer than the enemy, you can usually just sit still and pound at them from range. And almost anything can hit a webbed ship, with the possible exception of battleship turrets trying to hit a frigate.

Basically I can see what you're trying to get at here, but it comes across as if it's very difficult to get turrets to hit. This is just not true unless you're shooting at very small things, or things that are orbiting you very fast and/or close.

Originally by: Captain Schmungles
A missile does not have "optimal range." It will do the same damage to a target so long as the target is at or within whatever the missile's maximum range is.

This implies that turrets do different amounts of damage at different points within their optimal range, which isn't strictly true. If both you and the target are stationary, you will do the same amount of damage to him at all points within your optimal range; the only effect that range has is to decrease your chance of hitting once you get past optimal.

What you're getting at here is presumably tracking. A ship orbiting you at 400m/s at 10km has double the angular velocity of a ship orbiting at 400m/s at 20km. So in this particular situation, you would hit more often, and do more damage to, the ship that was further away (assuming your turrets have a 25km optimal, say). However, this is due to the angular velocity/tracking, and not the range. If the 20km ship started orbiting at 800m/s, then the transversal on both ships is the same and you would do the same damage to both despite the fact they are at different ranges.

Now that is a valid feature of turrets compared to missiles, you need to think a little more about transversal velocity (or enable that column on your overview) and signature resolution, whereas with missiles it's a more simple equation. However I wanted to quash any implication that turrets 'naturally' do more damage at their optimal - they don't. It's just that generally speaking, the farther away the target the lower their angular velocity is likely to be, and 'optimal range' is so-called because it gives you the best chance of a low transversal of the target before you start taking long-range penalties to hit chance.

Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
CAPS Holding
Capital Storm
Posted - 2007.11.09 23:04:00 - [7]
 

Thanks for the info, I needed to know this aswell.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2007.11.10 01:30:00 - [8]
 

Just to emphasise a point that GC13 made - turrets pretty much hit for full damage on smaller targets.

Missiles will always do less damage to smaller targets (MWD and target painters not withstanding).

A Raven could fire missiles all day at an interceptor and fail to make a significant dent, while a gunboat only needs to get lucky once with a L turret and that same interceptor will go pop.


 

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