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Cybrex
Posted - 2007.11.07 07:58:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cybrex on 07/11/2007 07:59:21
if the shield doesnt go full when scooped than galletne drone boats are more then pointless. !? u cna just kill the drones. atleast now u have somekinda chage to keep them alive , after that u dont. why ? then give them more HP or something.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.11.07 08:08:00 - [2]
 

To be fair, the idea is that we'll all have bigger dronebays so insted of scoop/repair/relaunch we'll just let them die and launch more.

I worrey though that this is going break fighters, they are too weak allready, not being able to repair them is going to make them even more vulnerable.

Cybrex
Posted - 2007.11.07 08:13:00 - [3]
 

well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2007.11.07 08:58:00 - [4]
 

The surely when scooped they should self repair shield but at their normal repair rate. From a RP perspective that seems obvious because, surely, when they're scooped they don't just shut down 100% and de-power waiting some crew member to crank start them when they're next needed.

Plus how about giving drone specialized ships a bonus to remote repair units only when they're targeting their own drones.

Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
Posted - 2007.11.07 09:03:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2007.11.07 09:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 07/11/2007 09:09:07
Originally by: Nian Banks
Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.
There are a couple of issues involved though.. how long does it take you to lock your own drones so you can repair them, if you lock them, you might not have enough skill to lock many enemy too, repair amounts are pretty poor... range can be an issue.. etc. etc.

{edit} - I'm not saying the 'instantly got my shields back' trick doesn't need fixing though, it does.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.11.07 10:12:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Alski on 07/11/2007 10:12:49
Originally by: Dr Slaughter
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 07/11/2007 09:09:07
Originally by: Nian Banks
Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.
There are a couple of issues involved though.. how long does it take you to lock your own drones so you can repair them, if you lock them, you might not have enough skill to lock many enemy too, repair amounts are pretty poor... range can be an issue.. etc. etc.

{edit} - I'm not saying the 'instantly got my shields back' trick doesn't need fixing though, it does.


Its mainley the range issue.
Small shield transporter = 4.8km
Medium = 6km
Large = 8.4km
Capital with max skills on a Thanatos = 52.5km

Maximum operational range on both normal ships and carriers far exceeds the ability for any of these ships to remote shield boost / armor repair there own drones unless they are fit for getting in close (ie: blaster/autocannon/etc fits)

tbh i havent payed much attention to what the new dronebay sizes of ships are on sisi (except the nerfed ones Wink) but if every ship gets 2x-4x times the dronebay it should be fine for except for the issue with fighters (though T2 drones will likeley go up in price as more will be lost)

Fighters aside, the only other problem i wonder about with this change is will we be seeing more gangs/fleets turning back home after an engagement because no-one has any drones left? Razz

Lydia Browm
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.07 10:32:00 - [8]
 

They limit the damage we can do with them and then they nerf there shield and recharge which was the soloution to the damp craze but they still nerf damps and don't even try and fit 1 med armor and 1 med shield (both remote) with dual mar mwd injector blah blah blah.Not gonna work so that means 1 extra slot gone so less damage and less drones = nefed to oblivion, with this change imo whe u dock / undock your shield shouldn't re-generate cause its literally the same exploit.

Sirial Soulfly
Posted - 2007.11.07 10:41:00 - [9]
 

Suck it up, whiners ! YARRRR!!

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2007.11.07 10:50:00 - [10]
 

All drone ships should have an remote rep range bonus. It's really not fair we have to **** isk up the wall just to use drones.

Jinmie
Posted - 2007.11.07 12:04:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jinmie on 07/11/2007 12:04:02
Drones and Fighters need more hp.

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.11.07 12:14:00 - [12]
 

While I don't fly drone boats (usualy combat them though) I too think that this is over the top. From RP PoV the drone is so much smaller than the ship that ship can insta charge it's shields so there is no reason to nerf them even fromt that perspective.

What is even worse is this is a bit too much of a nerf since most annoying gallente ships got nerfed by the bandwidth thing so there is absolutely no reason to do it even more.

Sir Nuke
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.11.07 13:43:00 - [13]
 

We should be able to recharge the shield of the docked drones in exchange of our capacitor at least.

Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Eclats de verre
Posted - 2007.11.07 14:00:00 - [14]
 

From a RP perspective, recharging more than 1k shield of a sentry drone on scooping with an ishtar is weird, the ishtar has less!
It should cost something, maybe a drone reair module for scooped drones would be good. If it reapirs structure, shield and armor with a reasonable cap usage compared to the repairing. The fact that all drones have the T1 resistance makes them very vulnerable, so the repair amounts are always high for the beating they received.
Either sort of drone shield power relay to recharge very fast the drones in bay, or an active module for actively repairing the drones. It would be better than those remote armor and shield repair/transfer with too short range, needing targeting and costing much cap for their effectiveness!

Also, if this module takes tons of CPU like other drones modules, it will just be crap, the drone cruisers lack CPU compared to the high CPU need of a drone link augmentor(50) or an omnidirectional tracking link (35). Fitting an Ishtar is hell, have to use all faction stuff with very low CPU use to make it efficient : or you can't tank and use your drones!
(Look at the ishtar CPU, compare to his HAS counterparts and the CPU required for the modules you fit in, laught!)

A general HP or resistance boost to drones is needed. Resistance if you want us to better remote repair them, or HP if you only want them to last longer and be lost anyway.

Drones needs something... Love from game designers maybe?

a51 duke1406
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2007.11.07 20:19:00 - [15]
 

Unless we get 60+ pages on the issue I have very little hope that CCP will listen to this.

ZaKma
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Alski
To be fair, the idea is that we'll all have bigger dronebays so insted of scoop/repair/relaunch we'll just let them die and launch more.

I worrey though that this is going break fighters, they are too weak allready, not being able to repair them is going to make them even more vulnerable.


The thing is, we don't. All dronebays still have the same size they have now. Confused

Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:01:00 - [17]
 

I'm fine with this change as long as drones get a hp buff. As it is, you are lucky to manage to get them scooped before they pop anyhow because they go down so easily.

Remote repping is also not viable because they are dead long before you can lock them.

Buyerr
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:01:00 - [18]
 

loled your so ridicules i can't do anything but laugh at your comment :P hhehehehhehe

uhhh so i DON'T get to have a free weapon type that can change:
dmg type.
seize between any seized weapon.
gives as high dps as the main guns.
and can't be taken down.
and can change within 1 sec :P

and on top of that i of cause have the full support of my normal guns.. ^^

ehhh.. isn't that fair :P loled...

Buyerr
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:05:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dr Slaughter
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 07/11/2007 09:09:07
Originally by: Nian Banks
Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.
There are a couple of issues involved though.. how long does it take you to lock your own drones so you can repair them, if you lock them, you might not have enough skill to lock many enemy too, repair amounts are pretty poor... range can be an issue.. etc. etc.

{edit} - I'm not saying the 'instantly got my shields back' trick doesn't need fixing though, it does.


uhh so it takes skills to do 100% effective?! WOW i would never have guessed:P

ow yer it is that ineffective compared to 100% shield back in 1 sec.
well i would like that recharge with my shield tank :P hehe

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:59:00 - [20]
 

Welcome to nerfest 2007. I dont know that I have ever seen so many nerfs in one game all at once as I am seeing now. Its making me want to vomit on the first CCP employees lunch I can find.

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.11.08 01:56:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Turin
Welcome to nerfest 2007. I dont know that I have ever seen so many nerfs in one game all at once as I am seeing now. Its making me want to vomit on the first CCP employees lunch I can find.



When you see goons and BoB agree as well as caldari and gallente pilots than something is seriously wrong with the proposed changes. Oh well I guess it's time to stock up on shuttles. The new uber ships of eve Confused

CHAOS100
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.11.08 02:23:00 - [22]
 

When they said that they weren't focusing on adding new features they meant they were focusing on nerfing existing features...


sad ccp

Beowulf Scheafer
Posted - 2007.11.08 02:55:00 - [23]
 

i must agree, this whole dronenerf is summed up way over the top. i can't kill any opponents guns/launchers/nos/neuts/smartboms/etc. , now what is the point that my droneboat is not only the only shiptype that needs to sacrifice dps to actually save its dps from beeing annihilated, but rather now the only shiptype able to loose its dps completly without beeing able to effectivly RECHARGE HP ON MY WEAPONS (do you see the irony in this one?).

i've read about the usage of remote shield/armor transfers to do so, but as the normal ones have a very limited range (even the ones mountable on bs) this is not really a solution. if you are not using only sentrys, the drones will orbit, and therefore leave and re-enter the range of the remote reps, therefore it is not effectivly micromanagable.

i can live with the nerfs of my beloved bc-sized droneboats somehow, but this weakens droneboats in general, and in both pvp and pve. missions in a domi filled with tII ogreII's might no longer beeing worth the while as some mistakes always happens (at least to me :-( , and not everybody has a good skilled raven at hands...

just my 2 €cents

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.08 03:19:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nian Banks
Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.


How many drone ships (vexor, myrm, domi, ishtar, eos) do you fly on a regular basis? Let's start with that.

Cybrex
Posted - 2007.11.08 06:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Nian Banks
Originally by: Cybrex
well i have to kill my isk and have no change of keeping them alive. i also worrie about fighters :( . its not hard to kill 10 ogra 2's if u cant rep them. u can trie with a remote rep but that wont ***rk very good



Is it really that ineffective using shield transporters? Most drone boats have utility high slots so with the nos nerf, surely it would be a nasty surprise to the opponents if the drone they think would be an easy target just won't die.


well it would be effective if remote shield/armor had 20-25km range. but they dont.

Silvion
Kodan Industries
Posted - 2007.11.08 06:19:00 - [26]
 

All I have to say is....it's about time.

First off, I am in no way talking about fighters in this post. Don't complain to me about fighter issues. I know they exist.

However, drones in general are overpowered. They are near to impossible to lock due to the insane lock times. They are near to impossible to hit with anything other than a smartbomb. They (currently) instarepair shields when recalled to drone bay. They do all damage types. They never have to reload.

And you didn't see a nerf coming? I have been playing EVE now for a year and a half, and the first thing I noticed when I trained up T2 drones was how insanely good they are. My corpmates and I have had a bet running for most of that time as to when the nerf was coming.

It is here, and in my opinion, it's about time they fixed the instarepair issue. It makes no logical sense as to why a drone would instantly have all of its shields back when it gets scooped to the drone bay.

Stop the whine here folks...a bug is being fixed. Adapt or quit.

Cybrex
Posted - 2007.11.08 06:39:00 - [27]
 

heavy drones are very easy to kill. a drake can kill 2 waves of them in short time if the shield doesnt heal. even now drones die very quickly.

Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Dark Prophecy Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.08 06:52:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 08/11/2007 06:52:52
If you lose drones you are doing something wrong. Most gallente ships fight in a range where you can basicly instascoop your drones, so if somebody start hitting your drone scoop redeploy, and the enemy has to target them again. This takes time and lot of effort in a fight.

So stop cpmplaining that they bring drones down to reasobable power.

Laughing Mime
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2007.11.08 07:05:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Laughing Mime on 08/11/2007 07:06:53
Even complete noobs know you shoot a myrm's drones to hurt it and with this change medium drones will go down FAST.

The real issue is logistics and cost, assuming that the these drone ships are now power balanced you are meant to field continuous waves of drones when yours are destroyed.

You will lose at least one wave of medium drones in a 1v1 with another bc, two if it is a close fight and all if you are outgunned.
One wave of hammerhead IIs can cost 10mil isk
two waves of hammerhead IIs can cost 20mil isk.
Personally I'm not going to spend 20mil on ammo to blow up a single enemy ship which might drop 5 mil in modules.

Then you have the issue of logistics, every single fight you will have to head back to a station which has drones in it, this is not feasible in 0.0. The option in low-sec would be to carry many spares in your cargo (hey, you have to take off a cap booster for damps anyway! :). But once again, i'm not carrying 100mil+ in ammo to enable a battlecruiser to do a massive 500dps.

Summary:
10-30mil ammo consumption per fight.
Only enough ammo for one fight, 5+ jumps to restock after every fight.


Quite simply i don't know or really care if the new droneships are in line with the rest, i won't be using mine anymore (2/3 of my kills were in a myrm).

Mc Fraser
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2007.11.08 07:45:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 08/11/2007 06:52:52
If you lose drones you are doing something wrong. Most gallente ships fight in a range where you can basicly instascoop your drones, so if somebody start hitting your drone scoop redeploy, and the enemy has to target them again. This takes time and lot of effort in a fight.

So stop cpmplaining that they bring drones down to reasobable power.


have u ever used a drone ship? it doenst help to scoop drones if they go down to halw armor immidetly!


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