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Riley Craven
Caldari
Raata Invicti
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.11.06 18:40:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Riley Craven on 06/11/2007 18:40:36
I havent really noticed much discussion about this, but after seeing the "new" build costs for t2 bs I have to question if CCP really knows what their doing.

I used to be in a corp that had 3 regions worth of pos doing t2 component production. We were able to make about 100k of each part and still have some adv reactions left over. I dont recall the exact amount of ships we built each month, but I think corp had a couple command ship bpos 3-4 cruiser bpos and of course t2 gear bpos. We comps we didnt use for our production we sold in bulk on contracts.

Now I may not have exact numbers or anything, but considering the new t2 bs costs plus the possibility of a t2 freighter I have to wonder if EVE can really support that kinda of production currently.

Question in a nutshell: Could the current or future pos infastructure actually support the build needs of the unviverse?

The reason I ask such a question is that with invention and t2 becoming main stream POS chains have become increasingly more profitable. So at what point does the game run out of viable moons to sustain the current demand/need for t2 comps?

It would seem to me that with the introduction of t2 BS and t2 JF that the current t2 pos industry could not support production on a massive scale to support the ever growing Eve population.

Cythrawl
Caldari
Central Defiance
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.11.06 18:44:00 - [2]
 

MOAR REGIONS!!!1!11one!1

Sooner or later we'll get some... maybe. There's all those ones over in the east... They have moons... They have moon mining... More moons now than there used to be atleast...

Sanche Tehkeli
Gallente
Bionesis Technologies
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.06 18:48:00 - [3]
 

Good point, this is valid question which need a deep analysis. What I can say from my PoV is that there are more and more and more POS in low-sec even on apparently low returns moons, it's difficult to find a free moon. This may lead to a trust of such moons in an handful alliances, this may lead to more wars too, to fight to install a POS, even if you don't moon harvest but do research and invention.

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2007.11.06 19:24:00 - [4]
 

When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2007.11.06 19:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.


You're joking?
How You can expect growing playerbase after such changes?

Seonae
STK Scientific
Posted - 2007.11.06 19:53:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



One wonders if you accounted for the fact that there's going to be a lot more t2 production (minerals or otherwise) lost due to the changes you're making to how people handle logistics. T2 minerals are not small, you don't move them around in bulk in fast moving ships. You MUST import some of your production be it in minerals or finished middle-tier items, and that stuff has to get to your production facilities -somehow-.

SkyLander
Minmatar
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:20:00 - [7]
 

Combined with the nerf to carriers, the tech2 market is going to be even more awesome than it is now.

Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Thank god you are looking at it. While you are at it, please pay particular attention to the fact that there are probably 10,000 moons in the universe with silicates and hydrocarbons, and many of these moons are not being mined because you can't even sell them for the fuel cost of running the tower. While at the same time, certain other moon minerals are ridiculously priced because there are only 4 moons in the universe that have them.

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.


You're joking?
How You can expect growing playerbase after such changes?


God, I hope you aren't talking about the nerfs. They're all completley understandable (except for MAYBE the eos).

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2007.11.06 21:21:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Igualmentedos
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.


You're joking?
How You can expect growing playerbase after such changes?


God, I hope you aren't talking about the nerfs. They're all completley understandable (except for MAYBE the eos).


Nope of course. I can't name killing playerbase "nerf".
"Suicide" may be better name for such.

But actually I speaking about new "better" UI which is completely unusable.

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.06 22:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Igualmentedos
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.


You're joking?
How You can expect growing playerbase after such changes?


God, I hope you aren't talking about the nerfs. They're all completley understandable (except for MAYBE the eos).


Nope of course. I can't name killing playerbase "nerf".
"Suicide" may be better name for such.

But actually I speaking about new "better" UI which is completely unusable.


Ok, I thought I was going to have to put up with another whine.

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.06 22:27:00 - [12]
 

Good! Let the prices skyrocket! I've got to have some reason to fly Freighters through 55 jumps of null-sec to get the damm fuel I need. Or to pay for the obscenely-priced Jump Freighters.

I've advocated stockpiling our Moon Minerals and Reactions for some time now. Unfortunately, we HAVE to sell them to pay for the fuel.

Souine
Posted - 2007.11.06 22:32:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Damn your shady answer, Release Moon harvester II or drop another region.

Riley Craven
Caldari
Raata Invicti
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.11.06 23:21:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Riley Craven on 06/11/2007 23:23:11
double posty

Riley Craven
Caldari
Raata Invicti
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.11.06 23:23:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Riley Craven on 06/11/2007 23:24:18
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Wow cant remember a time when a Dev actually responded to one of my threads much less on the 4th post....

Anyway, could you perhaps convice someone to write a dev blog about the anaylsis you guys have done on the current t2 industry... I.E. specificaly in regards to moons and the ever growing economy...

Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.11.07 01:06:00 - [16]
 

As a member of a corp involved in moon mining I can assure you that a boost to the t2 market is desperately needed. Currently most mid-level minerals(Platinum, Chromium, Ceasium, Cadmium, Vanadium) aren't really worth putting a POS down on unless you're reacting to a complex material and the low level ones are reacting it all the way up to advanced. The only strait up mining operations that are viable are the high-end materials like Neomidium, Dysporite, Technetium and other such things. While certainly the Rev 3 will drive prices up accross the board, I suspect you'll see a lot more people setting up POSs in low and high sec with the purpose of taking advantage of higher material prices.

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.11.07 01:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Ah. Awesome. the Dev post that answers nothing. This seems to be the norm sadly. However, given the way you guys are going bezerk with the nerbat, I dont think you have to worry about a growing population much longer.

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.07 01:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Turin
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Ah. Awesome. the Dev post that answers nothing. This seems to be the norm sadly. However, given the way you guys are going bezerk with the nerbat, I dont think you have to worry about a growing population much longer.



Man, when are people going to realize that if they don't like something in EVE they should STFU and quit? Or at least be sensible enough to wait for the changes to hit TQ.

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2007.11.07 11:39:00 - [19]
 


How about that fabled T2 Moon Harvesting array? I'd like to see that in game please :)

Jinmie
Posted - 2007.11.07 12:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Igualmentedos
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Ah. Awesome. the Dev post that answers nothing. This seems to be the norm sadly. However, given the way you guys are going bezerk with the nerbat, I dont think you have to worry about a growing population much longer.



Man, when are people going to realize that if they don't like something in EVE they should STFU and quit? Or at least be sensible enough to wait for the changes to hit TQ.


They have realised, hence the response you are quoting that you are apparantly blind to see talks about the future declining population.

Madscience
Posted - 2007.11.07 13:06:00 - [21]
 

one way to boost t2 comp industry is to make the new T2 blueprint used a small amount of a variety of t2 comp

Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
Posted - 2007.11.07 13:33:00 - [22]
 

CCP, please check specially the availabilty of Promethium and Dysprosium, which are already quite rare and are on an all-time-high at the moment.

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.07 16:07:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Princess Jodi on 07/11/2007 16:08:35
The T2 Harvesting array won't make a difference in supply. It will only get twice the mineral output if the Moon's Abundance is 2 or higher.

Now...how many Dysporium moons have YOU found that have double-abundancy? Shocked

Maybee ... Just Maybee ... they'd re-seed the ****-poor minerals we have in the Drone Regions? Naw...never happen. That would be like discovering Oil in Ethiopia.

Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.07 16:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Princess Jodi
That would be like discovering Oil in Ethiopia.


this made me lol as there is tons of oil in Ethiopia.

Hyakuchan
Earth Federation Space Force
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:21:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Hyakuchan on 07/11/2007 18:26:48
I would like to see empire moon mining made possible as part of factional warfare. An unbelievably expensive non-consumable starbase charter reward from the faction government corps that allows moon mining in empire but it is limited to one such charter per account at any given time.

Something that you can only get after months and years of crushing the faction's enemies.

So if you go forth and crush the weak Minmatar and their pathetic, hodge-podge fleet for months on end, eventually the Amarr take note and give you the right to establish an empire POS.

Gyle
Caldari
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.07 20:11:00 - [26]
 

Moon resoursers in gerneral have been totally worthless for the longest time.

The largest benefit with invention is that we are starting to see the prices on these products increase. It makes perfect sence that moon mining should be profitable. Pos management is such a laborious career at the best of times and these people that have spent the time and energy to get into this area have, traditional, got very few rewards (unlless they happen to stumble accross one of the rarest resources).

With the prices increasing it will make for a more realistic feel of gameplay.

On top of this. you might actualy see corporations in 0.0 and lowsec go to war over these resources which is the way it should be with corporations vying for an economic advantage. It would also make POS more than just a base of opperation and a soverignty claimer that they seem to be today. Obviously there are plenty of people who use them for their more industious nature but the people who make real profit tend to be those who maintain 10-20 somtimes thirty different towers to reap a decent profit.

Again this will no doubt push up the prices of tech 2 items but imho they have fallen too far anyways.

demonfurbie
Minmatar
Drunken Wookies
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.11.07 21:20:00 - [27]
 

why not make a cap moon mining ship so you can mine moons w/o having to put up a pos or "take down" some one else's pos

have it go into a siege mode and take the moon resources for the amount of time that siege is active and if there is a tower already there you'd have to tank the tower till you leave. would bring a whole new world to moon mining.

i dont know how many poses ive seen at a moon off line but w/ good mins there. or even poses w/ crap mins but off lined poses

WhiteSavage
Gallente
Ever Flow
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:06:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: WhiteSavage on 07/11/2007 23:07:26
Originally by: Jinmie
Originally by: Igualmentedos
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Ah. Awesome. the Dev post that answers nothing. This seems to be the norm sadly. However, given the way you guys are going bezerk with the nerbat, I dont think you have to worry about a growing population much longer.



Man, when are people going to realize that if they don't like something in EVE they should STFU and quit? Or at least be sensible enough to wait for the changes to hit TQ.


They have realised, hence the response you are quoting that you are apparantly blind to see talks about the future declining population.


Go pound sand you whiny old people

I swear some people must have trouble coping with rl. Instead of whining about EVERY single change implemented why not adapt... or if you cant THOUGHTFULLY suggest why you feel this will harm EVE... not how it will make your niche a bit harder.

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:11:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: WhiteSavage
Edited by: WhiteSavage on 07/11/2007 23:07:26
Originally by: Jinmie
Originally by: Igualmentedos
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
When adding this many Tech II ships, there was a lot of analysis on the ability of the tech II component industry to cope both in Trinity and the longer term into 2008. Prices of advanced materials will increase naturally with the higher demand these new ships will bring which comes in an age where Tech II component demand has already increased through invention for the last year and demand will continue to increase as the number of players grows.

If we see a need to increase supply rates in this capped industry, we will and we have a number of options to do so. Rest assured we are monitoring tech II industry. ugh



Ah. Awesome. the Dev post that answers nothing. This seems to be the norm sadly. However, given the way you guys are going bezerk with the nerbat, I dont think you have to worry about a growing population much longer.



Man, when are people going to realize that if they don't like something in EVE they should STFU and quit? Or at least be sensible enough to wait for the changes to hit TQ.


They have realised, hence the response you are quoting that you are apparantly blind to see talks about the future declining population.


Go pound sand you whiny old people

I swear some people must have trouble coping with rl. Instead of whining about EVERY single change implemented why not adapt... or if you cant THOUGHTFULLY suggest why you feel this will harm EVE... not how it will make your niche a bit harder.



O come on! That would be too easy for whiners.

littlechaoz2
Posted - 2007.11.08 01:45:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Princess Jodi
Edited by: Princess Jodi on 07/11/2007 16:08:35
The T2 Harvesting array won't make a difference in supply. It will only get twice the mineral output if the Moon's Abundance is 2 or higher.

Now...how many Dysporium moons have YOU found that have double-abundancy? Shocked

Maybee ... Just Maybee ... they'd re-seed the ****-poor minerals we have in the Drone Regions? Naw...never happen. That would be like discovering Oil in Ethiopia.


u sure about that? i myself havent gotten my hands on one yet to test out this theory, how do u know it wont mine at 200 units per 60 minutes, instead of working as 2 harvesters?
thats how these t2 harvesters seem to look like they will be doing


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