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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:31:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 28/10/2007 11:31:31
Originally by: Temitten
Edited by: Temitten on 28/10/2007 11:27:06
Boys and girls, you are missing the best of all amarr ships.
The Punisher is easily the best t1 frigate.
Yesterday I fought a Rokh (for fun) in mine, I managed to kill off all his drones and get through half of his shield before concord intervened and blew me up (15 minutes had passed).
I was never in any danger, could've gone on for hours (although I'm not sure I could have destroyed him...).


You fail. Rifter will pace pwn any other T1 frig including a punisher.

Temitten
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:34:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer


You fail. Rifter will pace pwn any other T1 frig including a punisher.


Oh I don't know.. when you're in extended battles, such as soloing battleships, the no ammo thing means a lot.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:36:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Temitten
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer


You fail. Rifter will pace pwn any other T1 frig including a punisher.


Oh I don't know.. when you're in extended battles, such as soloing battleships, the no ammo thing means a lot.



WTB imba punisher that solo's battleships.

Temitten
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:39:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Temitten
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer


You fail. Rifter will pace pwn any other T1 frig including a punisher.


Oh I don't know.. when you're in extended battles, such as soloing battleships, the no ammo thing means a lot.



WTB imba punisher that solo's battleships.


??

so get one, they're like 300K, you can outfit them for less than a mil.

Hydrogen
Enterprise Estonia
Session Changes
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:49:00 - [65]
 

Posting with lack of knowledge against well-argued posts/threads is plain trolling. That said the OP is a troll.


Arkanjuca
D00M.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:59:00 - [66]
 

I fly amarr, why? cause lasers are cool mm'kay?

But realy, i do enjoy using Armageddon, in fact my alt was made to fly it, its a very very good and cheap fleet BS that can do great in gate fights, getting your best dps at 15km instantly is great in this scenario, thats why i usualy get top dmg.

Other than that, i really dont know where else to go with that alt.
Zealot? AFs? Inty?
i will probaly go to inties and sniping zealot. I dont want to go drones (curse/pilgrim).

Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.28 12:03:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Dalanoria
Edited by: Dalanoria on 27/10/2007 19:09:18
Edited by: Dalanoria on 27/10/2007 18:57:04
seriously, quit cryin about our ships, THEY ROCK...

Ill go down the list:
Titan = The best
Carrier = The Best
Abaddon/Geddon = have u ever flown one ? G-Damn they are insane
Harbinger = Pure ownage in a cheap hull
Zealot = Only hac that doesnt have to deal with drones for dps -F U C K I N- ownage in a gang
Sacrilage Called the best Hac now supposedly (although i think they still suck azz)
Curse =Best all around ship in eve
Crusader = Highest dps intie
Gaurdian + Best logistics ship


WTF else do we need, PLEASE STFU with the posts, this isnt WOW!!!!!!!!!

Ill add this:

Arbi with 2x Ogre II, 2x HH II, 1x HGII, 1X Ham II, 2 x Small medium pulse II is 400 DPS..........................Costs you 15 mill for 400 dps toss away ship that has uber ewar.......



You bring tears to my eyes.

The best titan? Well, I guess it doesn't really use ammo per se, so I guess that makes it the cheapest, but then it's not gonna shoot all that often.

Dunno about the best carrier, I'd say the Gallente win on that one because of their drone bonuses.

Yes, I've flown both the Armageddon and the Abaddon, and they're both pretty poor. the Armageddon puts out some nice damage, but you'll have a fun time keeping any cap whatsoever. That and 3 mids really hampers your abilities in pvp. The Abaddon looks like an Apocalypse, but it's actually a slightly more powerful Armageddon in disguise. 8 Tachs? Hurrah! Shame you need a carrier with cap transfers to keep one running properly. Resistance bonuses are nice, but it's not really in keeping with Amarr ships.

The Harbinger isn't a bad little ship really. Hats off to CCP for their number crunching on creating it really, because you can only really fit a decent dps setup on it with a minimal tank, or a pretty low dps setup with a moderate tank. Although to many people that's really annoying, but I like it actually.

Doesn't have to deal with drones for dps? Hahahaha, you're reassured me, thanks. I'm safe in the knowledge I don't have to bother micromanaging drones for that extra dps, when I can simply sit back and do less :D Cheers. 4 Turret slots on a Hac is pretty hard to use, or even justify buying.

Sac is the opposite of the Zealot really, can't do nearly as much damage, but actually has a tank worth something. Defiantly not the best HAC though, I think the Vaga wins on that hands down.

Curse is ok, but it's hardly a multi-role ship. It's an ewar boat. The Pilgrim is a better solo ship, but it's not perfect.

I doubt the Crusader is the highest dps Interceptor, but I've never flown one properly, so I have no idea, you could be right.

Same with the Guardian, I don't really know, but I doubt it.

Rutefly
Amarr
Freedom-Technologies
Sev3rance
Posted - 2007.10.28 12:13:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Rutefly on 28/10/2007 12:13:22
These threads would be much shorter and easy to read if, posters actually have flown Amarr extensivly in pvp, arent full of bull and deceit, arent tossers.

It would save the forums alot of bandwith.

And yes from my golden avatar, i love Amarr T1 ships, and ive stayed docked alot lately.
Staying docked, you spend more time spamming forums, so .. well.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.28 14:01:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Rutefly

And yes from my golden avatar, i love Amarr T1 ships, and ive stayed docked alot lately.
Staying docked, you spend more time spamming forums, so .. well.


Yes and keep those T1 amarr ships docked up, there is a good reason why they are docked in the first place.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 14:03:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: d''hofren on 28/10/2007 14:07:55
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus


Harbinger = Worst tier 2 BC, by far.

Zealot = HAhahaha.

Sacrilage = The fact that you think it sucks ass shows that you don't know much.


How about you try flying other things than Amarr, THEN say Amarr is fine, eh?

/me goes back to his Minmatar training, after a year of using Amarr ships.



Pure unadulterated rubbish...

I am equally skilled in both amarr and minmatar for anything sub BS sized.

The only reason minmatar is perceived as "good for pvp" is down the the popularity of a certain website that was built out of bloody mindedness. The whole point behind that place was to provide a resource for a race that was seen as almost comical for any kind of sub snipe PVP.

Harb is capable of perma running a single mar II while firing and sporting 5 TII mediums
Total dps with scorch + drones with my skills is 566 compared to 546 on the cane. Armour tanking the two is more or less identical. Harb wins out on having insta ammo swap, more dps, more sustainable tank, far greater range.......

(all maths based on lvl 4 weapons specs, BC5, faction range ammo types).

Sac.... Dual rep tank, decent speed. Ok damage is lowish but the thing is still one of the nicest heavy tackle boats in game.

Zealot - agreed no niche here. Still a decent ship however.

I am afraid you are simply wrong on just about everything you posted.



Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.28 14:16:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Edited by: d''hofren on 28/10/2007 14:07:55
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus


Harbinger = Worst tier 2 BC, by far.

Zealot = HAhahaha.

Sacrilage = The fact that you think it sucks ass shows that you don't know much.


How about you try flying other things than Amarr, THEN say Amarr is fine, eh?

/me goes back to his Minmatar training, after a year of using Amarr ships.



Pure unadulterated rubbish...

I am equally skilled in both amarr and minmatar for anything sub BS sized.

The only reason minmatar is perceived as "good for pvp" is down the the popularity of a certain website that was built out of bloody mindedness. The whole point behind that place was to provide a resource for a race that was seen as almost comical for any kind of sub snipe PVP.

Harb is capable of perma running a single mar II while firing and sporting 5 TII mediums
Total dps with scorch + drones with my skills is 566 compared to 546 on the cane. Armour tanking the two is more or less identical. Harb wins out on having insta ammo swap, more dps, more sustainable tank, far greater range.......

(all maths based on lvl 4 weapons specs, BC5, faction range ammo types).

Sac.... Dual rep tank, decent speed. Ok damage is lowish but the thing is still one of the nicest heavy tackle boats in game.

Zealot - agreed no niche here. Still a decent ship however.

I am afraid you are simply wrong on just about everything you posted.





Agreed.

Harbinger is fine. This is a ship that was made after the big amarr nerf back in the days. Thats why it works.

Sacri is a great ship because it is a armor tank with lots of cap and lows and using missiles wich dont suck cap. Also it has perfect amount of mids. This is also a great hac.

Zealot really isnt fine. It does need more dps to be viable in its role. It has no drones, the range advantage isnt that great because its medium sized guns and eventhough it has 7 slot low it doesnt tank as good as you might think.
To sum it up, it has a dps comparable to an omen, no drones, and lack of mids. This ship should have more dps to compensate for all those short comings imo.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.28 16:27:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 28/10/2007 16:32:00
Originally by: d'hofren
Edited by: d''hofren on 28/10/2007 14:07:55
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus


Harbinger = Worst tier 2 BC, by far.

Zealot = HAhahaha.

Sacrilage = The fact that you think it sucks ass shows that you don't know much.


How about you try flying other things than Amarr, THEN say Amarr is fine, eh?

/me goes back to his Minmatar training, after a year of using Amarr ships.



Pure unadulterated rubbish...

I am equally skilled in both amarr and minmatar for anything sub BS sized.

The only reason minmatar is perceived as "good for pvp" is down the the popularity of a certain website that was built out of bloody mindedness. The whole point behind that place was to provide a resource for a race that was seen as almost comical for any kind of sub snipe PVP.

Harb is capable of perma running a single mar II while firing and sporting 5 TII mediums
Total dps with scorch + drones with my skills is 566 compared to 546 on the cane. Armour tanking the two is more or less identical. Harb wins out on having insta ammo swap, more dps, more sustainable tank, far greater range.......

(all maths based on lvl 4 weapons specs, BC5, faction range ammo types).

Sac.... Dual rep tank, decent speed. Ok damage is lowish but the thing is still one of the nicest heavy tackle boats in game.

Zealot - agreed no niche here. Still a decent ship however.

I am afraid you are simply wrong on just about everything you posted.





Are you insane? Hurricane = > Turret dps + easier fitting + better supplimentary dps + Better cap use + better damage types + faster + lighter.

The reason minmitar is percieved as good for PvP is because they are.

Rifter, Vigil Rupture, Hurricane, Stabber, Bellicose(yes, the bellicose) Tempest, Maelstrom, Muninn, Vagabond, Claymore/Sliepnir all have places in fleets of all sizes for many different roles(ignoring ships that are usefull in niche roles not in the majority of situations). For Amarr you have the Geddon, Abaddon, Damnation, and Crusader excluding all ships that are not outperformed in all ways by an equivelent minmitar ship.

14882
Posted - 2007.10.28 16:51:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Dalanoria
Edited by: Dalanoria on 27/10/2007 19:09:18
Edited by: Dalanoria on 27/10/2007 18:57:04
seriously, quit cryin about our ships, THEY ROCK...

Ill go down the list:
Titan = The best
Carrier = The Best
Abaddon/Geddon = have u ever flown one ? G-Damn they are insane
Harbinger = Pure ownage in a cheap hull
Zealot = Only hac that doesnt have to deal with drones for dps -F U C K I N- ownage in a gang
Sacrilage Called the best Hac now supposedly (although i think they still suck azz)
Curse =Best all around ship in eve
Crusader = Highest dps intie
Gaurdian + Best logistics ship


WTF else do we need, PLEASE STFU with the posts, this isnt WOW!!!!!!!!!

Ill add this:

Arbi with 2x Ogre II, 2x HH II, 1x HGII, 1X Ham II, 2 x Small medium pulse II is 400 DPS..........................Costs you 15 mill for 400 dps toss away ship that has uber ewar.......



Titan = you can't be serious
Carrier = is not the best, although not the worst either
Abaddon/Geddon = need to be fixed big time...amarr BS's all have overlapping roles and do not perform them well
Harbinger = definitely not pure pwnage...this was one reason I agree with the myrmidon nerf
Zealot = you've apparently never flown one
Sacrilage = it is very good, does what a cerb can only dream of
Curse = "best all around ship in eve"...it's still a good ship; recons on the whole seem to be pretty well balanced in their respective roles.
Crusader = like someone said....taranis will get more dps
Guardian = yea because you see so many of those

Please do not tell people to "STFU" when they try to make solutions to amarr ships and game balance. It's not hard to see you have no experience flying amarr ships (and I don't even fly amarr). Amarr players have had a very legit argument about their ship's capabilities for awhile now. The arbitrator is a good ship, but it is by no means unbalanced and last time I checked, T1 crusiers were not the premier ship for anything.

The only thing "WOW" about this post is your language and irrelevant arguments.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:32:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Are you insane? Hurricane = > Turret dps + easier fitting + better supplimentary dps + Better cap use + better damage types + faster + lighter.

The reason minmitar is perceived as good for PvP is because they are.

Rifter, Vigil Rupture, Hurricane, Stabber, Bellicose(yes, the bellicose) Tempest, Maelstrom, Muninn, Vagabond, Claymore/Sliepnir all have places in fleets of all sizes for many different roles(ignoring ships that are usefull in niche roles not in the majority of situations). For Amarr you have the Geddon, Abaddon, Damnation, and Crusader excluding all ships that are not outperformed in all ways by an equivalent minmitar ship.


I don't understand your point. You seem to be saying that amarr both suck and don't in the same post?

Last time I checked the harb was also turret based. Harb dps is a bit higher than the canes. You have a point on damage types but that is about it. By no means is the Harb the worst Tier II BC as the quoted person claimed.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:38:00 - [75]
 

Exaclty ammar both suck and don't suck. Ammar have some gfood ships. but they ahve some ships taht are so awefull that are a bad joke like APOC and Prophecy.

At least make those able to fit easily to compensate their suckinness.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:56:00 - [76]
 


Its not that Amarr are underpowered, they're not.

Its that Gallente are Overpowered.

Between Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar PvP is pretty much balanced.

When you throw Gallente into the mix, Gallente always comes out on top.

The Myrmi is a solo pwnmobile, a class of ship that Oveur in the past has said does not exist in Eve.

The Mega can snipe, gank, rat, mission, mine, theres pretty much NOTHING it isn't good for. Its straightforward to fit and tanks like a God.

Domi is the most value you can pack into 60m. Its like 2 pounds of whoopass in a 1 pound bag.

Taranis. Okay granted Inties role is not dps but they are all equally worthless when it comes to zipping around and doing nothing, the fact that a blaster inty can zip in and sting you the hardest is actually pretty significant.

Okay whats my point here.

Amarr doesn't suck.
Caldari doesn't suck.
Minmatar doesn't suck.

Its just that Gallente are better than all of them.

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:57:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Goumindong

Are you insane? Hurricane = > Turret dps + easier fitting + better supplimentary dps + Better cap use + better damage types + faster + lighter.

The reason minmitar is perceived as good for PvP is because they are.

Rifter, Vigil Rupture, Hurricane, Stabber, Bellicose(yes, the bellicose) Tempest, Maelstrom, Muninn, Vagabond, Claymore/Sliepnir all have places in fleets of all sizes for many different roles(ignoring ships that are usefull in niche roles not in the majority of situations). For Amarr you have the Geddon, Abaddon, Damnation, and Crusader excluding all ships that are not outperformed in all ways by an equivalent minmitar ship.


I don't understand your point. You seem to be saying that amarr both suck and don't in the same post?

Last time I checked the harb was also turret based. Harb dps is a bit higher than the canes. You have a point on damage types but that is about it. By no means is the Harb the worst Tier II BC as the quoted person claimed.



What is the worst Teir 2 BC then? BTW, the hurricane does out-DPS the harbinger. With close range T2 ammo, and 3 dmg mods a piece, max drones, and remembering to fit just heavy missile launcher on the hurricane(it has plenty of room for em.) 773 hurricane vs 768 Harbinger. Oh yeah, after that fitting, the harbie has 40% of its CPU left (canes got 43%) and 22% of its PG ( harbie has 40%). So don't give me any crap about an unrealistic setup.

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:58:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

Its not that Amarr are underpowered, they're not.

Its that Gallente are Overpowered.

Between Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar PvP is pretty much balanced.

When you throw Gallente into the mix, Gallente always comes out on top.

The Myrmi is a solo pwnmobile, a class of ship that Oveur in the past has said does not exist in Eve.

The Mega can snipe, gank, rat, mission, mine, theres pretty much NOTHING it isn't good for. Its straightforward to fit and tanks like a God.

Domi is the most value you can pack into 60m. Its like 2 pounds of whoopass in a 1 pound bag.

Taranis. Okay granted Inties role is not dps but they are all equally worthless when it comes to zipping around and doing nothing, the fact that a blaster inty can zip in and sting you the hardest is actually pretty significant.

Okay whats my point here.

Amarr doesn't suck.
Caldari doesn't suck.
Minmatar doesn't suck.

Its just that Gallente are better than all of them.


Minnie > Amarr or caldari... remember, ships are balanced around PvP.

Mila Prestoc
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:07:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 28/10/2007 16:32:00Rifter, Vigil Rupture, Hurricane, Stabber, Bellicose(yes, the bellicose) Tempest, Maelstrom, Muninn, Vagabond, Claymore/Sliepnir all have places in fleets of all sizes for many different roles(ignoring ships that are usefull in niche roles not in the majority of situations). For Amarr you have the Geddon, Abaddon, Damnation, and Crusader excluding all ships that are not outperformed in all ways by an equivelent minmitar ship.


Talk about over-rating some minmatar ships and under-rating some Amarr ships.

Bellicose? Seriously? Why not the Arb then?
Vigil? lol, what about the Punisher, that shocks as many t2 frigs as Rifter does.
No Harbinger? 50m3 is very nice supplement to the turrets.
Zealots in same sort of boat as Muninn and Eagle, all 3 could use some adjustment.
No Sacrilage? Wow talk about under-rating it.
Absolution? Even more amazing ignoring this ship.

No way these ships are "out performed in everyway by minmatar equivilents", thats a load of rubbish and you know it.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:07:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: shinsushi

Minnie > Amarr or caldari... remember, ships are balanced around PvP.


Having fought expert Amarr ship users in CVA, I am going to have to disagree with you that Minnie > Amarr.

Proj is the lowest DPS weapon in the game, Minnies have the second weakest armor tank (next to Caldari LOL), and the weakest resist to Exp. It is also the easiest to sensor damp. It is also easy to predict what damage types to tank, all you have to do is tank for EMP ammo. If he uses DU or some other type he cuts his DPS, so all you have to do is tank for Explosive, WHICH AMARR HAS THE HIGHEST NATURAL ARMOR RESIST TO.Laughing

Amarr have some really cool boats, but I hate the pee yellow color of their armor, it makes my eyes bleed.

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:16:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: shinsushi on 28/10/2007 18:16:25
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: shinsushi

Minnie > Amarr or caldari... remember, ships are balanced around PvP.


Having fought expert Amarr ship users in CVA, I am going to have to disagree with you that Minnie > Amarr.

Proj is the lowest DPS weapon in the game, Minnies have the second weakest armor tank (next to Caldari LOL), and the weakest resist to Exp. It is also the easiest to sensor damp. It is also easy to predict what damage types to tank, all you have to do is tank for EMP ammo. If he uses DU or some other type he cuts his DPS, so all you have to do is tank for Explosive, WHICH AMARR HAS THE HIGHEST NATURAL ARMOR RESIST TO.Laughing

Amarr have some really cool boats, but I hate the pee yellow color of their armor, it makes my eyes bleed.


Your right, that super high 20% natural resists is insane, or that 85% resists on T2 ships...

What about amarr, throw on just EM and thermal hardeners and your good dumbass. Minnie T2 ships can fit 1 Thermal hardener and reduce amarr damage to just a hair over 12% of its original dmg.

Effective DPS > Raw DPS. Get that thru your Neanderthal like skull. So if EM is the order of the day, minnies have it in spades, or if Explo, or kin, or therm... hey minnies can do that too.

Minnies have the second best shield tank aswell, and the fastest ships, and the fastest tracking weapons, and no cap use weapons, and damage type selectability, and LoL fitting ACs.... well I could go on and on, but your ADD probably kicked in by now and you already replying or picking your nose...

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:18:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Goumindong

Are you insane? Hurricane = > Turret dps + easier fitting + better supplimentary dps + Better cap use + better damage types + faster + lighter.

The reason minmitar is perceived as good for PvP is because they are.

Rifter, Vigil Rupture, Hurricane, Stabber, Bellicose(yes, the bellicose) Tempest, Maelstrom, Muninn, Vagabond, Claymore/Sliepnir all have places in fleets of all sizes for many different roles(ignoring ships that are usefull in niche roles not in the majority of situations). For Amarr you have the Geddon, Abaddon, Damnation, and Crusader excluding all ships that are not outperformed in all ways by an equivalent minmitar ship.


I don't understand your point. You seem to be saying that amarr both suck and don't in the same post?

Last time I checked the harb was also turret based. Harb dps is a bit higher than the canes. You have a point on damage types but that is about it. By no means is the Harb the worst Tier II BC as the quoted person claimed.



What is the worst Teir 2 BC then? BTW, the hurricane does out-DPS the harbinger. With close range T2 ammo, and 3 dmg mods a piece, max drones, and remembering to fit just heavy missile launcher on the hurricane(it has plenty of room for em.) 773 hurricane vs 768 Harbinger. Oh yeah, after that fitting, the harbie has 40% of its CPU left (canes got 43%) and 22% of its PG ( harbie has 40%). So don't give me any crap about an unrealistic setup.


Citing figures with hail is irrelevant. Any minmatar pilot will tell you that you fly with and use faction emp or barrage. You might carry a bit of hail with you BUT you only load it when you a hiting something that is fat, webbed and tanking armour.. It is a very specuialist ammo type. Using it in dps calcs is equivalent to discussing balance based on the faction mods. Compare ships with the best ammo fitted, in this case it is barrage vs Scorch

Don't get what you are on about with the unrealistic setup thing. Personally I only do two damage mods. Third gives to little return for my tastes.


d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:26:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: shinsushi
Edited by: shinsushi on 28/10/2007 18:16:25
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: shinsushi

Minnie > Amarr or caldari... remember, ships are balanced around PvP.


Having fought expert Amarr ship users in CVA, I am going to have to disagree with you that Minnie > Amarr.

Proj is the lowest DPS weapon in the game, Minnies have the second weakest armor tank (next to Caldari LOL), and the weakest resist to Exp. It is also the easiest to sensor damp. It is also easy to predict what damage types to tank, all you have to do is tank for EMP ammo. If he uses DU or some other type he cuts his DPS, so all you have to do is tank for Explosive, WHICH AMARR HAS THE HIGHEST NATURAL ARMOR RESIST TO.Laughing

Amarr have some really cool boats, but I hate the pee yellow color of their armor, it makes my eyes bleed.


Your right, that super high 20% natural resists is insane, or that 85% resists on T2 ships...

What about amarr, throw on just EM and thermal hardeners and your good dumbass. Minnie T2 ships can fit 1 Thermal hardener and reduce amarr damage to just a hair over 12% of its original dmg.

Effective DPS > Raw DPS. Get that thru your Neanderthal like skull. So if EM is the order of the day, minnies have it in spades, or if Explo, or kin, or therm... hey minnies can do that too.

Minnies have the second best shield tank aswell, and the fastest ships, and the fastest tracking weapons, and no cap use weapons, and damage type selectability, and LoL fitting ACs.... well I could go on and on, but your ADD probably kicked in by now and you already replying or picking your nose...


A word of advice - cut the personal attacks, it makes you look desperate. Also someone will petition you...

* shield tank diminishes your ability to fit mwd, web or disruptor, One reason that gall ships are so great is that they have the spare mids to fit that stuff while having the lows free to tank. Bit of a daft complaint of yours anyhow, of course they have the second best shield tank. There are only two shield tanking races in game.

* damage type section comes with a 10 second reload penalty. You fight with what you have loaded and you fight at the range that suits what you have loaded. You also have clip size to contend with. Both of those things effect damage output

* as for hardening... That's kind of the point of hardeners



shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:43:00 - [84]
 

Just because it takes time to reload, doesn't mean that damage type selection is not a hugely important thing to have. If a blaster/laser boats is hitting someone only to find the target is hardened to all hell, they cannot do a damn thing about it.

Oh, on one clip a minmatar ship can fire for 195 secs. Minmatar suffer from a 5% DPS penalty due to reloading in a fight after the guns run out of ammo. Do not set your guns to auto-reload and you can have all the damage type variety you want for little penalty.

You did not address the variety of minmatar advantages, all which are true. Or that setting up a minmatar ship does not call for as many sacrifices like the amarrian ship does. Even with T2 long-range ammo, the hurricane still outdamages the harbinger. The comparative tracking of the two will be 0.99 minnie vs 0.76 amarr, allowing the hurrican to out-transverse the amarrian weaponry while still hitting, and the hurricane will be able to dictate the engagement.

Just because of the downsides of mid-slot tanking, doesn't change the fact that they are the second best at it. You know, to balance out the fact that they are the second worst shield tankers.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:50:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: shinsushi

Your right, that super high 20% natural resists is insane, or that 85% resists on T2 ships...

What about amarr, throw on just EM and thermal hardeners and your good dumbass. Minnie T2 ships can fit 1 Thermal hardener and reduce amarr damage to just a hair over 12% of its original dmg.

Effective DPS > Raw DPS. Get that thru your Neanderthal like skull. So if EM is the order of the day, minnies have it in spades, or if Explo, or kin, or therm... hey minnies can do that too.

Minnies have the second best shield tank aswell, and the fastest ships, and the fastest tracking weapons, and no cap use weapons, and damage type selectability, and LoL fitting ACs.... well I could go on and on, but your ADD probably kicked in by now and you already replying or picking your nose...


Oooh personal attacks, see thats how I know I already pwned your arguments.

Who the hell tanks their armor for EM? EM tends to be the most untanked damage type.

If you specifically tank for lasers as Armor you can effectively cut their damage to a hair.

If you specifically tank for Hybrids as both Armor and Shields you can effectively cut their damage to a hair too.

The difference between %85 em armor tank and %85 exp shield tank is what exactly?

Capiche nub?

You think you understand the game balance but the reality is you're just parroting the forum "class balance" propaganda of players who are smarter than yourself.

As for the rest of your post its drivel.

Proj does not have the best tracking, in fact Arty has the worst tracking. AC's tracking is inferior to blasters. I could be wrong but didn't buff laser tracking by %25 about 2 patches ago? Hmmmm.

"Damage type selectability" yeah you can have any damage type you want, as long as EMP ammo does that damage typeLaughing

PS - Amarr has the best armor resistances, the highest base cap recharge, lasers and hybrids compete for #1 in DPS depending on range AND THEY BOTH DO TWO DAMAGE TYPES AND USE CAP NUMBNUTS LOL.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:52:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Citing figures with hail is irrelevant. Any minmatar pilot will tell you that you fly with and use faction emp or barrage. You might carry a bit of hail with you BUT you only load it when you a hiting something that is fat, webbed and tanking armour.. It is a very specuialist ammo type. Using it in dps calcs is equivalent to discussing balance based on the faction mods. Compare ships with the best ammo fitted, in this case it is barrage vs Scorch

Don't get what you are on about with the unrealistic setup thing. Personally I only do two damage mods. Third gives to little return for my tastes.


Its a lot less specialist than you think. Hail should be used in any situations where the Minmitar is not expecting to be primaried and is using autocannons. The time to close difference is easily made up by the huge dps increase over Barrage.

And no, you should not be using EMP, EMP is the most special use ammo that autocannons have, PP is better in nearly every situation.

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:52:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Elenath on 28/10/2007 19:12:22
mispost

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:53:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Mila Prestoc

Talk about over-rating some minmatar ships and under-rating some Amarr ships.

Bellicose? Seriously? Why not the Arb then?
Vigil? lol, what about the Punisher, that shocks as many t2 frigs as Rifter does.
No Harbinger? 50m3 is very nice supplement to the turrets.
Zealots in same sort of boat as Muninn and Eagle, all 3 could use some adjustment.
No Sacrilage? Wow talk about under-rating it.
Absolution? Even more amazing ignoring this ship.

No way these ships are "out performed in everyway by minmatar equivilents", thats a load of rubbish and you know it.


Speed. The arbitrator is good, the Bellicose is fast. The fast is the important part. The Punisher is good at killing stupid tech 1 frigates when it utterly gimps itself into general use uselessness. Propulsionless, plated AC setups are not exactly beneficial as anything but bait. And anything can kill highsec/low sec ratters, punisher not required.

The Hurricane outperforms the Harbinger in every way due to damage types. Where short range weapons are good the explosive dps of the Hurricane means it does more damage than the Harbinger even in falloff. Combined with the speed and dps that the Cane can put out really put the hurt down. The missile slots are better than the extra drones, though the drones do make a bit better remote repairing.

With larger gangs, the Harbingers low dps, high fittings, and bad long range tech 1 ammo push the high alpha Hurricane way over the top, even in short range engagements where the Harb has the ammo advantage the damage types and alpha push the Hurricane over the top.

In short, the Hurricane is better at projecting dps in all situations than the Harbinger.

The vigil is better than the executioner in all ways.

You are right, i forgot the sacriledge.

The Absolution is again, like the Harbinger, outperformed in every way by its minmitar equivelent. Not only is the sleipnir faster, with better damage types, more guns(and better dps), but it also gets a falloff bonus to boot. The one thing that laser ships with low meds are good for is projecting dps fast. And the Sleipnir does that better in all situations. Its better with arties than the Abso is with Beams, its better with autocannons than the Abso is with pulses.

And yes, i am figuring in falloff in these comparisons. Because shield tanks are so rare and suboptimal for Pvp except for a few select ships, you can expect lower amount of shield hit points and higher amounts of armor hit points as well as eanm tanks.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:56:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: d'hofren


I don't understand your point. You seem to be saying that amarr both suck and don't in the same post?

Last time I checked the harb was also turret based. Harb dps is a bit higher than the canes. You have a point on damage types but that is about it. By no means is the Harb the worst Tier II BC as the quoted person claimed.


Actually it is. Not saying its not a good amarran ship, or not good to fly, but it is the worst tier II BC. Its just that the difference between it and the rest of the ships is a lot smaller than the difference between the other amarran ships and their counterparts. It is sub-optimal as a dps ship compared to the cane in all situations, it doesnt have the ewar capabilities of the drake or the variable damage types. Is it a lot worse than them? No. Is it worse than them? Yes.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 19:09:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: d'hofren
Citing figures with hail is irrelevant. Any minmatar pilot will tell you that you fly with and use faction emp or barrage. You might carry a bit of hail with you BUT you only load it when you a hiting something that is fat, webbed and tanking armour.. It is a very specuialist ammo type. Using it in dps calcs is equivalent to discussing balance based on the faction mods. Compare ships with the best ammo fitted, in this case it is barrage vs Scorch

Don't get what you are on about with the unrealistic setup thing. Personally I only do two damage mods. Third gives to little return for my tastes.


Its a lot less specialist than you think. Hail should be used in any situations where the Minmitar is not expecting to be primaried and is using autocannons. The time to close difference is easily made up by the huge dps increase over Barrage.

And no, you should not be using EMP, EMP is the most special use ammo that autocannons have, PP is better in nearly every situation.


Think we have had this conversation before...

PP hits in thermal, which is a sensible harden for pvp. EMP keys on em and explosive which tend to be the lowest resists on most ships. PP is a nice and underrated ammo however, especially on TII amarr targets or for generic npcing.


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