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Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2008.06.03 17:49:00 - [301]
 

compress veldspar maybe?

Have you ever tried moving 500 million trit into 0.0?

Right now we can still compress it into modules and move it, but as I said, module compression's days are numbered.

Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Crimson Steel Empire
Posted - 2008.06.04 07:43:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Pwett
I'm not going to start this argument again.

As a high-sec miner, you'll make far more money if you can compress your high-sec ore to sell to the people who need to get it to 0.0, at a premium.

It's only a matter of time before CCP completely negates all viable module compression.


If I were a betting avatar then no, I'm sure the lovely Devs won't have it doing any Ore Compression - there's just no need for it in High Sec.

And the 0.0 Customers are NOT interested in buying Scord or Veld at a 'premium' - so even less need!Rolling Eyes

Boombastica
Majority 13
Posted - 2008.06.04 09:15:00 - [303]
 

Edited by: Boombastica on 04/06/2008 09:14:58
Originally by: Marcus Tedric


If I were a betting avatar then no, I'm sure the lovely Devs won't have it doing any Ore Compression - there's just no need for it in High Sec.


I fail to agree with you here. I see the role for an ore compression ship, since there are many high sec systems without a (refining) station.

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2008.06.04 14:51:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: Marcus Tedric

And the 0.0 Customers are NOT interested in buying Scord or Veld at a 'premium' - so even less need!Rolling Eyes


Want to bet? There are a few IPOs that do nothing but sell compressed trit in modules at a premium, and they do VERY well.

Mensche
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:24:00 - [305]
 

It may be easier to just make a mining command ship. Having the orca be a battlecruiser hull means it can already travel in empire, etc. and doesn't have the 0.0 addons that u want to strip off anyway (clone vat, siege module, etc.) Since you'd be in highsec anyway, there's not as much need to compress for transport when you can just dump at an NPC station. Then just make an industrial command ship skill, with maybe mining barge V and exhumer V instead of the racial cruiser and bc skill. Then just give it a bonus to tractors and mining skill per level instead of weapons. then give it turrets so the operator has something to do like use mining lasers or help repel gankers with guns. Hopefully no one else said this :)

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2008.06.05 14:46:00 - [306]
 

you need to break out of your paradigms here.

In 0.0, you compress while you mine to get minerals TO the station.

In High-sec, you compress while you mine to get minerals OUT of high-sec.

Vlad Dakovnovich
Posted - 2008.06.06 09:04:00 - [307]
 

I notice the Orca is not in the patch notes for the up coming patch, very disapointed Sad

Axaeli
Gallente
Shadewraith Cargo and Industry
Posted - 2008.06.23 01:07:00 - [308]
 

So it's been about 8 months since Chronotis tipped us off that they were thinking about the Orca. Any chance this thing will ever see the light of day? Or at least more details than it's name? There's been lots of suggestions in all kinds of directions here, anything near the mark?

Stefan F
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.25 10:11:00 - [309]
 

No it will not come. Get into 0.0 and buy a rorqual if you want to compress ore.

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2008.06.25 10:55:00 - [310]
 

it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere Wink.

It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.


4IROW
r.evolution 8
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:18:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere Wink.

It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.




sounds great! :D

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.06.26 05:03:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere Wink.

It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.




What I would really appreciate is at least a line on the skills required. I have a 50 Mill SP industrialist character, and if he needs some things to fly Orca properly would love to have info on it.

Inoga Deh'saelnu
Posted - 2008.06.27 17:01:00 - [313]
 

I had an idea about what the Orca should have... Even the Rorqual really...

They should have a Mining Transport Link Laser... Since mining barges can get rock with a laser why can it not be transported via laser... Having an Orca or Rorqual present means that the Barges can be targeted by the Rorqual and as they mine to their cargo the rorqual automatically takes from the cargo to its "reserve hangar" or whereever the ore goes as it waits for compression.

Might be to carebearish for the can flippers... but its an idea. Could just be a module... that has to be activated... so the Rorqual / Orca pilot really has to be on the ball... stopping and starting it on the different barges as they cycle... The barges themselves may have to be timed so that they are all not cycling at the same time... just something to think about.

~CS

chanchinpin gaijai
Placidity Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.29 12:11:00 - [314]
 

Edited by: chanchinpin gaijai on 29/06/2008 12:13:22
Edited by: chanchinpin gaijai on 29/06/2008 12:12:13
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere Wink.

It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.




Please, make sure that it can actively haul in belts and that it can provide bonuses equal to that of a BC/Command Ship. Many are looking forward to a sound solution for having too many accounts. Consolidating one character into a hauling and bonus role would allow for a good means of running a three-character solo program (This would consist of two miners and a hauler/director).

This would bring your intermediate industrialist within reach of those currently dual-boxing their four accounts to run the same roles, as many PCs/connections can run three instances of the client, but four is just impossible for many.

One realizes this could open the door for those running two PCs to utilize three mining ships and the Orca, but it would remove the limitation currently imposed on many running only one.

Many 0.0 industrialists already run the three or four account setups utilizing the Rorqual. This drastically increases their productivity creating an even larger gap between high-end and low-end ores. The benefits of mining high-end should be that one is mining better ore, not that one can fly a better program.

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2008.06.30 18:22:00 - [315]
 

Although multi-boxing is a fact of any MMORPG, I for one think that changing the game design to reward it or increase its efficiency is a bad idea. Once a game gets to where you "have" to multi-box in order to be competitive, things get ugly fast for single-box players. IMO the single-boxer should be the only constituent in the design paradigm.

Pextrin
Minmatar
Empire Asteroid Excavations And Ship Construction
Posted - 2008.06.30 18:40:00 - [316]
 

1. 27500 M3 space with those compactor things.

2. Bonuses to fleet members in same system.

3. Captial Tractor

4. Ship Maintance Array Thing (Allowing a hulk or 2 to repair if not able to tank rats (ya right).)

Aiko Onhurbaccalaught
Posted - 2008.07.01 09:07:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Aiko Onhurbaccalaught on 01/07/2008 09:09:35
Originally by: Marlenus
Although multi-boxing is a fact of any MMORPG, I for one think that changing the game design to reward it or increase its efficiency is a bad idea. Once a game gets to where you "have" to multi-box in order to be competitive, things get ugly fast for single-box players. IMO the single-boxer should be the only constituent in the design paradigm.


I'm sorry but it already exists for those who mine; especially for those who mine their production minerals. If you are a solo miner you're broken. Good luck mining for 8-20 hours and having a dedicated buddy along side you to haul. If you're trying to actually compete in the produced goods market for noticible profit you need to be able to mine at about the rate of two Hulks so you can keep a fair quantity of a large assortment of goods on the market. Not to mention having two manufacturing characters is just as valid.

In so many cases you must have multiple accounts as an industrialist. Its the only way to compete in today's market -- although nothing can help us from items sold 5% under build cost.

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:19:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Inoga Deh'saelnu
I had an idea about what the Orca should have... Even the Rorqual really...

They should have a Mining Transport Link Laser... Since mining barges can get rock with a laser why can it not be transported via laser... Having an Orca or Rorqual present means that the Barges can be targeted by the Rorqual and as they mine to their cargo the rorqual automatically takes from the cargo to its "reserve hangar" or whereever the ore goes as it waits for compression.
~CS


I'm sorry, but this is the BEST idea ever. E-V-E-R.

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:34:00 - [319]
 

I think the ore transfer link would be a very cool idea. The Orca could get a bonus to its range, although it would elminate the jet-can from mining. Maybe if only the orca could fit that module, otherwise every hauler would be parked with one of those on, laughing at pirates.

Things I would like to see in this Orca:

+ Ability to use all 3 mining foreman gang mods, and possibly a bonus to their effectiveness.
+ Large cargo hold, something on the order of 20,000 m3 or more, before fitting ofcourse. It shouldnt be nearly as big as the rorquals cargohold, but enough that it could hold 3 or more jetcans worth of ore.
+ A new tractor beam variant, and possibly a cargo-scanner bonus, so the Orca pilot can monitor jet-can ore levels, and tractor in as needed.


Ford Hakata
Hakata Group
Blade.
Posted - 2008.07.04 00:43:00 - [320]
 

Edited by: Ford Hakata on 04/07/2008 00:46:55
I don't see the point in having a "mini-me" version of the Rorq. As it is today, the Rorq isn't a spectacularly useful ship, but if we add CCP's ideas about the replacements for the current asteroid belts (e.g. explorable belts, comets, system-wide asteroid belts) to this discussion, maybe it could be a little more interesting?

Would be sensible to give the Orca and Rorqual scanning bonuses for finding asteroid belts with certain ore?

E.g. the Orca gets a hefty bonus for finding low-end ores, and the Rorq for finding high-ends - making the mid-ends a bit harder to find and as consequence perhaps a little more valuable.

And to destinguish the Rorq more, give it a module that can set up a grid-sized deadspace field when it fires up the industrial core, making MWDs useless and makes any ship warping to that grid end up right on top of the Rorq.

That would at least open up the possibility for some interesting countertactics against roaming gangs. Twisted Evil

Camaro
Gallente
Xeno Tech Corp
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.07.04 14:20:00 - [321]
 

IF the orca was gonna get a "transfer link" it would have to be a gang bonus. Or else i will just park one of those on my alt, and target every miner in the belt :D


Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.07.04 14:44:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: Camaro
IF the orca was gonna get a "transfer link" it would have to be a gang bonus. Or else i will just park one of those on my alt, and target every miner in the belt :D




BEST use EVER of the BEST idea EVER!

Morgan Lorus
Caldari
Unstable Reaction Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.04 15:54:00 - [323]
 

Originally by: Ford Hakata
Edited by: Ford Hakata on 04/07/2008 00:46:55
I don't see the point in having a "mini-me" version of the Rorq. As it is today, the Rorq isn't a spectacularly useful ship, but if we add CCP's ideas about the replacements for the current asteroid belts (e.g. explorable belts, comets, system-wide asteroid belts) to this discussion, maybe it could be a little more interesting?

Would be sensible to give the Orca and Rorqual scanning bonuses for finding asteroid belts with certain ore?

E.g. the Orca gets a hefty bonus for finding low-end ores, and the Rorq for finding high-ends - making the mid-ends a bit harder to find and as consequence perhaps a little more valuable.

And to destinguish the Rorq more, give it a module that can set up a grid-sized deadspace field when it fires up the industrial core, making MWDs useless and makes any ship warping to that grid end up right on top of the Rorq.

That would at least open up the possibility for some interesting countertactics against roaming gangs. Twisted Evil


Seems you didnt read the first post, the Orca will be a "High-Sec" Ship.

And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%.

Jaden Icer
Gallente
Icerian Technologies
Posted - 2008.07.05 18:39:00 - [324]
 

Quote:
And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%.


Can you explain this one to me, cause I don't see how you are getting this math.


Morgan Lorus
Caldari
Unstable Reaction Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.05 19:26:00 - [325]
 

Edited by: Morgan Lorus on 05/07/2008 19:27:09
ok..... :

lets say our Mining Director got:
Mining Foreman Level 5
Mining Director Level 5
Warfare Link Specialist Level 5
Cybernetics Level 5
Capital Industrial Level 5
and a Mindlink

the example:
The MD boosts a Hulk with a mining yield of 4200m per 3 minutes cycle.
4200m + 15% Mining Foreman Bonus = 4830m
Cycle time decreases in a BS/Commandship by 22.5% with the above listed skills, (4830m/(180sec.-22.5%=139.5))*180= 6232m per 3 minutes,
((100/4200)*6232)= 48.3% boost

and in a Rorqual the cycle time decreases by 28.125%,
(4830m/(180sec.-28.125%=129.375))*180= 6720m per 3 minutes,
((100/4200)*6720)= 60% boost

Ford Hakata
Hakata Group
Blade.
Posted - 2008.07.06 11:36:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Morgan Lorus
Seems you didnt read the first post, the Orca will be a "High-Sec" Ship.

So what? The "mini-me" Orca is still a boring concept... Sure, it can be "useful" in the way that a T2 mining laser is "useful" compared to a T1 one (increased yield,) but I'd rather see something done with the ships so that my play experience gets improved.

Originally by: Morgan Lorus
And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%.

Yeah, it means that a mining op can finish a few minutes earlier. Minutes I can use to go visit my friends for a few extra laughs, or minutes I could use to sleep a little extra. Yay again. I say make entire play experience more fun, not just more "time-efficient".

SiKong Ma
Prometheus Unbound Incorporated
Posted - 2008.07.07 08:27:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere Wink.

It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.




Regarding this statement, it means that the Orca will be the freighter's little cousin instead of the Rorqual?

In that case, wouldn't it be better to have a new class of ships (called the cargo haulers or something) and have 4 different models of ships, one for each faction instead of having it under ORE. Increasing the number of models of ships will make the game more vibrant and interesting.

On the other side, the original ORE model of the Orca be made THE little cousin of the Rorqual. I believe this will make all the haulers and miners happy as we all get new toys to play with not to mention more eye-candies at the undocks of Jita! Shocked

ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.07 15:13:00 - [328]
 

Edited by: ByFstugan on 07/07/2008 15:30:24
This ship could either be good as two ships, an Mining Command Ship from ORE and a specialized freighter for ore, in my opinion. The "Big brother", the Rorqual, is such in its low-sec version - it got both mining boosts and takes the heavy burden of extremelly massive m3 of ore to transport to a station to refine.

So, my suggestion is kinda:
#1) Make it with mining boosts as a Command ship (add warfare link specialist 4 to requirements as other command ships has), and an extra 3% to Mining Foreman Gang links with a "Can use 3 Gang Link modules simultaneously".
#2) Give it an Logistics bonus to range on shield transfers (not capitals?)
#3) Give it a good bonus to Tractor beams (100% or even 200%) - so no Capital tractor beam.
#4) Instead of packing ore, just give it a huge cargo (at least 250K m3) for uncompressed ore.
* This cargo could be an special cargo only for ore, that exist beside an regular cargo. Otherwise its cargo could be restricted to ore only.
5) Give it similar role bonuses as the Rorqual except for the Clone Vat Bay option.

This makes it function as an empire-version of the Rorqual when it both boosts and help logistics, without stealing the Rorqual role in whole. It also can be used in 0.0 to help logistics there from belt to a POS.


An alternative:

The downside with this is that its primary made to be an empire-version of the Rorqual, and I have hard finding it fit into the Capital Industrial Ships since I think it should only need some levels on Advanced Spaceship Command and not all the way up to level 5 and also need the Capital Ships skill. Hence it would need a new cathegory or just be squesed in there anyhow - if not the Capital Ship 1 should be required.

Perhaps a better solution would be two new ships:
1) An ORE Command ship (with a whole new hull) and some logistics bonuses maybe (#1-2 above). Also with some scanning bonuses of course.
2) An new model under Freighters thats ore-specialized from ORE, with posibility to use fitting (tractorbeam is a must, so #3-4 above).

Gordonh
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.07.08 11:59:00 - [329]
 

I'd actually like to see a new set of 3 hulls, with T1 and T2 variants.

T1
Prober - frig size - bonus to scan res/times (for exploration rather than ship scanning)
Salvager - cruiser size - extra high slots, bonus to salvage chances
Mining Boost - BC size - fits a single ganglink (3% bonus to mining links)

T2
Prober - same as T1 with better tank and bonuses to the hacking/code breaking
Salvager - same as T1 with better tank, bonuses to salvager/tractor range and speeds
Mining Boost - same as T1 with better tank (able to be the tank for a mining op?) and able to fit 3 ganglinks (3% bonus to mining links)


I think this would fill a number of holes in the current ships ranges available.

Slanty McGarglefist
Posted - 2008.07.08 12:41:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 08/07/2008 12:49:54
So when can we expect something like this to come around? The idea is most interesting to me.

Quick question though, will this be geared more towards highsec corps than an industrious individual?


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