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Remejiah
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:05:00 - [1]
 

I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:06:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Remejiah
I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.


Because the ships are still valid.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:07:00 - [3]
 

good point.

and I hate when people use WoW as something to say about eve.

If your going to change a whole class of ship let player deside if they still want the sp or if they want them somewhere else.


say... battleship 5.


or carrier 3 (instead of 5)

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/10/2007 00:07:46
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Remejiah
I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.


Because the ships are still valid.


damn... good point...

but.. you wouldn't be able to fly them, I mean I can buy a mom, I cna't pilot one but I buy one. the ship is still valid, and I don't have the skill to pilot one.

or ...

Remejiah
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Remejiah
I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.


Because the ships are still valid.


You probably wouldn't be able to please everybody, unfortunately. But I think the biggest problem people are having is that they've spent over a year to fly a carrier only to have its role change on them. That's an entire wasted year of skill points that without a refund they'll never get back. CCP owes these players at least that much. That or maybe a money refund. Very Happy

NeoThermic
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:35:00 - [6]
 

When comitting yourself to any cause, whether its a business plan, training scheme, or otherwise, you must always consider that the world will change.

I spent 3 months saving for a computer which by the time i could afford it was no longer as superior as i thought it was. I did not get a refund from overclockers.

These situations happen all the time in MMOs like WoW because persistance doesnt matter there - they have loads of servers - nobody has a reputation. In EVE, people become known for their abilities, and become relied upon for these abilities too.

The character trade would become obsolete overnight aswell.

Just no, you'd eliminate a significant part of something that makes EVE unique, a trade which has become part of the economy, and we would once again be seeing to the needs of people who can't take it when stuff goes wrong in life.

Apologies for bluntness of posting. I'm tired and cba to tip toe around people's feelings.

Mr John22ta
Supercarrier Aggression
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:40:00 - [7]
 

This would kill eve. Now no offense to the OP or anyone Pro this topic, however this would literally kill eve. One of the main things in the game that keeps players playing is the progression. Time progression to be precise. Wow is similar yet at the same time completely different. In Eve you cannot run dozens of missions and as a result your a level 60 pilot or whatever the WoW kiddy default is.

CCP has looked at this though..

I would suggest looking up on character trades/sales. (Legal ones of course).

I am assuming you came to this idea on the fact you'd like to change the way you play the game... Aka switch races or switch from a passive industry/science play style to a combat style (Or vice versa). Now a character trade/transfer entails much more than a skill point return, but in this game its the best choice.

We don't want EvE turning into SWG or Planetside now do we. ;p

Kamen
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:54:00 - [8]
 

Even though I hate WoW and I know that Eve does have a lot more features than WoW (Like at least the warning if you by mistake are trying to undersell something) I don't see a problem with this one.

We would have to "Balance" things, so that someone can't just spilling all SP into industry, make a ton of ships, and then spill into fighting, then switch back.

The way to do this is to allow to untrain a skill. If you do so, your SP go into this pool which moves 1 skillpoint towards your current training per every "free" skillpoint. That way you train twice as fast as you deplete this pool.

Gzashon
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2007.10.24 01:52:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Gzashon on 24/10/2007 01:56:36
Edited by: Gzashon on 24/10/2007 01:54:42
Originally by: NeoThermic
When comitting yourself to any cause, whether its a business plan, training scheme, or otherwise, you must always consider that the world will change.

I spent 3 months saving for a computer which by the time i could afford it was no longer as superior as i thought it was. I did not get a refund from overclockers.

These situations happen all the time in MMOs like WoW because persistance doesnt matter there - they have loads of servers - nobody has a reputation. In EVE, people become known for their abilities, and become relied upon for these abilities too.

The character trade would become obsolete overnight aswell.

Just no, you'd eliminate a significant part of something that makes EVE unique, a trade which has become part of the economy, and we would once again be seeing to the needs of people who can't take it when stuff goes wrong in life.

Apologies for bluntness of posting. I'm tired and cba to tip toe around people's feelings.


Wow, talk about poor reasoning.

Its expected that computers will get faster every 6 months or so, it happens like clockwork and anyone who expects a refund shouldn't have one in the first place, its that growth / obselesence that makes computing worthwhile.

However what is happening here (and with the drone changes, and the torp nerfs, etc) is that the entire role of something a player has spent months / years training for has been altered drastically. You spent 3 months saving for a computer and its not top of the line once you got it. Imagine saving for over a year to buy a car, and then one day waking up to representatives of the manufacturer in your garage exchanging it for a moped, and giving you the same load of bs you just fired off above. I think you would be, maybe, a little irate.

That computer? Now it makes toast. Deal with it.

Or maybe a college degree and 4 years of education suddenly qualifiying you for a career that you hate as opposed to the one you studied for? Haha, sucker.

Fortunately, my capital alt is still midway through the training process, and i lose little from the carrier changes (nerfs). I'm not so sure i'm going to keep him on that path, because i don't like where its going. If i'm going to spend a year of time and billions of ISK (tens of billions for a MOM!), i think i deserve something that is a formadible machine that can launch a cloud of fighters and drones that will dish out some serious punishment, because a) a carrier is by no means indestructible, in fact it goes down very easily with decent dps if caught alone and b) its a long and difficult training and purchase process that clearly doesn't suit the majority of people who play this game and c) its a freaking capital ship, a CARRIER, it should have teeth.

Of greater concern to me, personally, is this bs with drones (poor ishkur!) and torpedoes (if you dont have t2, dont bother anymore). Generally its a bad sign when developers start pushing through ideas that players hate, instead of fixing the ones they care about (the REALLY obvious ones, like the lag in fleet battles, the dated UI, etc). Why on earth are they even thinking about having us walk around in stations--does anybody really care? Hell, i'm sitting here wondering why my spaceship from the far, far future isn't able to navigate itself around a little rock in space!

Some kind of recompense, if this goes through, is in order. I don't know if an SP reallocation would work (it would be difficult to implement anyway), and a policy like WoWs of resetting talent points often would disrupt the game. But either this needs to go away, or CCP owes some players ALOT.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.24 02:47:00 - [10]
 

I think this would be a very bad idea, don't get me wrong, I want every single SP I ever spent in mining back, but I'd rather CCP fixed things rather than appease people.

Also it really would mean everyone can train for the FotM ship and set-up safe in the knowledge that when it gets nerfed they'll get all the SP back.

Train a ship because you like the role and you normally won't have a problem.
Example: People may whine about the Eos nerf but they did train for a fleet command ship.

If CCP change the role significantly however, then one should get on the forums and tell them that doing so is a very bad idea as players will face uncertainty when training for any ship for any role, FotM or not. Changes of this nature make character regret, a big MMO population killer, unavoidable.

Example: The carrier is a heavily tanked drone boat capable of pushing out DPS akin to a single Megathron at extreme range. It also has a side line in logistics.

It is not a poorly tanked logistics ship with cap stability issues that has a side-line in improving the DPS of it's gang-mates.

CCP don't need to "fix" carriers, they need to fix fleet warfare. This is a half-assed, and to be honest shameful attempt at it. It won't solve anything. We have carrier blobs because we have battleship blobs, what we really need is a solution to blobbing itself. Some way to encourage large fleets to split up and attack multiple targets simultaneously instead of steamrolling through space.


Short version: If we can trade in our SP we won't be so inclined to tell CCP when their being dumb and the game will slowly fall apart as we ignore poorly considered changes and simply migrate from one FotM to another.

Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Sp00t
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:05:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Short version: If we can trade in our SP we won't be so inclined to tell CCP when their being dumb and the game will slowly fall apart as we ignore poorly considered changes and simply migrate from one FotM to another.


Quoted for truthiness.

Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:29:00 - [12]
 

Good god, men, if we start implementing things on the basis of "WoW does it.... why not EVE?" that's a sign that it's time to find a new MMO. Eve is hardcore because we commit to whatever we train for. Train up Minmatar battleships and find you like lasers? Too bad! Start over! No FOTM hopping for you.

General Xenophon
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:42:00 - [13]
 

Amazing idea! This would be a very welcome change in my book.


General Xenophon
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:52:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: General Xenophon on 24/10/2007 05:09:02
Originally by: NeoThermic
When comitting yourself to any cause, whether its a business plan, training scheme, or otherwise, you must always consider that the world will change.

I spent 3 months saving for a computer which by the time i could afford it was no longer as superior as i thought it was. I did not get a refund from overclockers.

These situations happen all the time in MMOs like WoW because persistance doesnt matter there - they have loads of servers - nobody has a reputation. In EVE, people become known for their abilities, and become relied upon for these abilities too.

The character trade would become obsolete overnight aswell.

Just no, you'd eliminate a significant part of something that makes EVE unique, a trade which has become part of the economy, and we would once again be seeing to the needs of people who can't take it when stuff goes wrong in life.

Apologies for bluntness of posting. I'm tired and cba to tip toe around people's feelings.


Great point, but taking into account that Eve is a game, it's somewhat less hmm, not the same thing?

When people put time into a game there is an expectation that the company to whom they are paying will at least in some part be willing to compensate them for -pardon my language- royally screwing them over ingame, via changes to ships such as the MS / Carrier nerf suggestion.

All the 'oh no! don't mention WoW' talk aside, a good idea is a good idea. When skill points change in patches, players (in my opinion) SHOULD get refunds to choose how they want to change to the new changes.

As an example, before the last big game expansion I had trained starbase tactical officer -which is now called Starbase Defense Management- to level 3. I had found it somewhere either from a mission or a reward, I don't honestly recall, I just remember seeing it on the market for 150 million and knowing that it must be rare. When the patch was released my skill was put back to level 2 and the requirements of the skill were changed from the lower rank it was, to rank 7(!!!). Not to mention it also now requires anchoring level 5 to train, so although I had trained it to level 3 prior to the patch, now it's level 2. So in order to train it any higher, I need to train anchoring to level 5 first. I need to see if I can actually control any starbase guns with it yet.

I talked with CCP about this, and although no skill points were lost, it is frustrating to me that a skill can be changed like that and I as a player received no compensation for it. I don't think it's that unreasonable to ask for a skill refund seeing as I wasted a few days training on a skill that was eventually changed and set back and then changed to a much more time intense skill.

If the Dev's reserve the right to change skills for any patch, then we the players deserve the right to be able to have some form of refund of skills when skills are changed or new ones are added.

This is just an example, and it's late so I hope it made some sense.

In a competitive gaming industry CCP would be wise to take into account parts of other games which are appealing to their customers, namely this feature of skill point refunds.

CCP can claim the sky and stars but if they can't keep their players happy, well they aren't going to get much past recruiting new players who will soon found out the game can't keep them playing because the company will do whatever it pleases at the expense of the players. Players will only put up with so much crap before they just decide to leave.

And your post was fine, no toes stepped on. :)

Futureface01
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.10.24 11:00:00 - [15]
 

Not always do you get a refund in wow. They only give refunds on changes THEY feel is major. The refund effectively saves you 50g, an hours grind at the slowest pace possible.

Also, WoW has brutalized at least 2 classes I can think of off the top of my head, not provided a "refund" (big deal, 50g) and left them without a viable way of PVP'ing at all. Im not talking about ruing their specs, Im talking about shutting down their entire class when it comes to PVP.

If you played one of those 2 classes for the past 2 years, you could care less about a "free respec of a 50g value"

......Other examples........

And WoW isnt the only game to brutally destroy classes and years of work and offer nothing. Play EQ1? Think Necromancer, Shadowknight, Paladin.... Each classes that had ups and downs, but mostly negative changes. I quit at GoD Xpac, I think after 5 years Necros were decent again, but SHD/PALs ended up decent for a grand total of 1 year out of the 5 I played. No free "class change" for NEC/SHD/PALs. And in EQ1 you couldn't just reroll so easily.

AO Agents anyone? Gods to gimps.

SWG Various Classes were simply removed.

City of Heroes eventually circle nerfed so much it was more like "City of Slightly Above Average Citizens". No compensation was given, hell they nerfed every single class so hard, what sort of compensation would you want? A class change wouldn't even help!

Many MANY games have done balance changes. Many of the balance changes have been unjust. Companies are unthinking, unfeeling entities though. If your peers want a "bad" change, and your peers are in the majority the "bad" change will probably happen. The company just wants to keep the biggest block of paying customers happy, factoring in how much "unhappiness" one group is likely to take prior to canceling their accounts (IE Stop paying).

Right now if 80% are demanding X be nerfed or they'll quit (of which 5% might actually quit).
And 20% of players enjoy using X, (of which 10% will quit if X is ruined)
then they still come out ahead nerfing X, even if the nerf was unjustified.

Gozmoth
Amarr
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.10.24 11:07:00 - [16]
 

SP refund = No more Amarr ships ! :p

Drenan
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.10.24 12:23:00 - [17]
 



Another way of modernising the skill point system would be:

On first log in after char creation you would have the predetermined skills at the appropriate levels as now...THEN... you would start to accumulate sp into a central 'points pool' at a standard rate 24/7 (no more skill change log-on's requiredShocked).

The 'learning skills' and implants would boost the rate of sp gain as now.

All you would then need to do is look at the sp value for the skill/s you want to train. If you have enough points in your pool just click away and raise them and bingo...it is done.

Many benefits to this system and very easy to implement since it uses the existing mechanics...and NO NEED FOR A SKILL QUEUE!!! Very Happy









NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2007.10.24 12:36:00 - [18]
 

i think every ship in eve has a use, like the goons say, if you got nothing left, tackle that carrier in a ibis ;)


Talos Munjab
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:29:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Talos Munjab on 24/10/2007 13:30:38
i have a idea, you may hate it you may like it, but lets face it the whole point of forums is to field IDEAS, dont mean there actually going to happen.

skill MEMORY LOSE. lv8 skill pre req, science lv5, bio lv5, edicte memory lv5.

NOTE uses new type of bio drug. and you cant use it while a skill is being trained.

skill, as you take a pill the next skill you select will remove the last rank of skill allowing you to place the recovered points into another area.

skill atributes, lv1 50% points recovered, rank2 60% rank 3 70% rank 4 80% rank 5 90%
skill atributes, lv1 1 week recovery, rank 2 6 days, rank 3 5 days and so on

yes you always lose some points when using it and as it costs a pill, i suggest that its quite expensive too, with the recovery time from the drug its not something you could spam in order to completly change your characters style. However it would allow certain you to remove some to place in otheres every now and then, also a expensive way to remove mining rank 1 Very Happy

Kendrix Arathan
Minmatar
wiggle Tech.
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:08:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Kendrix Arathan on 24/10/2007 14:13:20
*EDIT* -I've been awake for the past 24 hours and take no responsability for my spelling or gramar-

poor reasoning?

Originally by: Gzashon
Imagine saving for over a year to buy a car, and then one day waking up to representatives of the manufacturer in your garage exchanging it for a moped...

thats kinda a silly example, how bout, you save for a year to buy a vechile that suits your needs, then 3 months after you buy it gas prices sky rocket and its no longer affordable for the long trip you need it for becuase its a gas guzzler. its happens.

Originally by: Gzashon
That computer? Now it makes toast. Deal with it.

again silly and not representitiive of the situation.
how bout you spend a year saving for and building the ultamate gaming machine that is upgardeable to last you the next 6 years, a month after you get it , they announce a new card standard and all your stuff is out dated and imcompadable with anything new, it happens (happened to me)


Originally by: Gzashon
Or maybe a college degree and 4 years of education suddenly qualifiying you for a career that you hate as opposed to the one you studied for? Haha, sucker.

this infact happens quite often

stuff happens and changes and you have to change and deal, its the way things work


Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:14:00 - [21]
 

If you want a "respec" system in EvE, you have to do some major calculations.

Basically, if I decided to respec my Amarr BS 5 for Minmatarr BS 5, it would be pretty easy as they use the same attributes. But if I wanted to trade it for Laboratory Operations 4, you have to calculate the time spend on Amarr BS 5 and then see how many SP you could get in Laboratory Operations. You would probably not get to lvl 4 if the difference is very big.
Otherwise, you will have a big "abuse" of the training system.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:17:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Remejiah
I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.


Because people need to think and plan out their chars instead of spontaneously switching to the flavor of the month. My statement would be "WoW does it so we certainly shouldn't." Look at the bright side, if it bothers you that much then you have another game you know you can go to.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:22:00 - [23]
 

lol wow sucks why do what they do Shocked



VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:10:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Remejiah
I'm talking about a skill point refund. Whenever a major change is made to a class in World of Warcraft, a talent point refund follows. Everyone's happy after a class rebalancing.

Why not the same thing in EVE? The carrier / mothership players who are upset about the change can "respec" into something else of their preference.

Simple and straightforward, all that's needed is a simple interface that would allow users to redistribute their skill points.


This is a very poorly thought out and DISHONEST analogy.

First of all, WoW allows you to respec because WoW has STATIC character classes with FINITE career paths. If you pick a rogue, that's all you will ever be. You will never cast a fireball or rez anyone from the dead. Furthermore, you have a FINITE amount of talent points (SP) to spend on your talents. Thus, if a change is made to the talents, you will never be able to train those talents unless you are given the opportunity to redistribute your talent points. Eve allows you to be anything you want and has infinite skill points so you can always train for the new features.

Second of all, WoW only allows respeccing when it fundamentally alters a character class, not when it alters equipment. If you trained up a warrior and they nerf your "Sword of Geekiness +2", you don't get a respec. Since Eve doesn't alter character classes (because there are none), and only alters equipment, you shouldn't get a respec either.

Your blanket analogy of the two systems borders on an outright lie. No, WoW doesn't do it, and neither should EvE.


theteck
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:17:00 - [25]
 

i quit eve because progression its to long...

i can wait 3 years before have fun to kill people in the game ....


i want to play a game but i dont want to wait all this time before playing ...

5 month its enough for me and 10 millions sp and i cannot combat any players ... because i lost to much and work to hard to have this ship ....


my last month and in the last week i pass all my 500 millions and all my ship to kill all people ... after i leave ....

im a action guy not a guy that wait so long to have fun ... and skill to do it ...


Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: theteck
i quit eve because progression its to long...

i can wait 3 years before have fun to kill people in the game ....


i want to play a game but i dont want to wait all this time before playing ...

5 month its enough for me and 10 millions sp and i cannot combat any players ... because i lost to much and work to hard to have this ship ....


my last month and in the last week i pass all my 500 millions and all my ship to kill all people ... after i leave ....

im a action guy not a guy that wait so long to have fun ... and skill to do it ...




PVP-University students are out PVPing some of them on their trial accounts. You neither need a lot of skillpoints nor isk to pvp effectively. Si this is a non argument. if you dont have the patience for this game then I would suggest something to satisfy your instant gratification reflex such as a good FPS. Coming in another game trying to screw it up for your instant gratification is selfish.

General Xenophon
Posted - 2007.10.24 18:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: General Xenophon on 24/10/2007 18:06:56
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Good god, men, if we start implementing things on the basis of "WoW does it.... why not EVE?" that's a sign that it's time to find a new MMO. Eve is hardcore because we commit to whatever we train for. Train up Minmatar battleships and find you like lasers? Too bad! Start over! No FOTM hopping for you.


Good point except when CCP changes an area of concentration, for example the new boost to Amarr, which is pretty cool, but it meant that many Amarr pilots had to change their focus in energy weapons to missile skills. In this case where people have picked a concentration and gone for it, there should be some kind of compensation at least offered to offset the new skills they will most likely need to make those ship types more effective.

Also, the carrier change idea. If CCP nerfs the hell out of carriers and MS like they want to, players who have spent years training for carriers SHOULD get a chance to refund their skillpoints.

And for goodness sake! Get off the whole 'we hate WoW' trip! He was just using what he knew as a frame of reference to talk about an idea he would like to see used in Eve regarding skillpoints. If you simply stop listening when someone mentions WoW then you are just as bad as CCP for being stubborn and not listening to players. For the most part CCP does what they want, regardless of player input, unless of course player input happens to co-incide with what CCP was planning to do anyway.

Dalanoria
Northern Intelligence
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.10.24 18:34:00 - [28]
 

Comparing WOW to EVE is like comparing a, s h i t sandwich to a Reuben sandwich, guess which one is S H I T.....

Arretu
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2007.10.27 22:18:00 - [29]
 

Not too bothered either way (although I wouldn't mind removing some skills. defender missiles, anybody?)

just posting to suggest massive penalty for moving skill points, such as 5:1 ratio or maybe 10:1. that way you can get back some points that you have in a worthless area, but you are really gonna think twice about it as it still means losing days of training time. just my 2 pence.

Stevie G
Posted - 2007.10.28 00:38:00 - [30]
 

Although a respec does sound appealing for a number of reasons (I am Amarr and fly a Carrier), it would never work in Eve.
The main problem would be that we buy skills in Eve. If everyone were allowed to respec, then the prices of books would also either have to be refunded or removed from the game (which would never happen).
For instance, advanced spaceship command, capital ships, carrier, fighter, advanced drone interfacing etc, easily comes to over 1 billion ISK. If I respecced, would I get that ISK back? Would I have to pay for new books? It simply will not work.
I don't like the changes that they are going to make to the carriers, and Amarr simply suck at mission running and pvp (apart from the Pilgrim which got nerfed recently). But that is life.
I trained Caldari BS and can use my CNR for running missions now, and I fly all sort on pvp.
The great thing about Eve is that you are never stuck in a rut. If you trained carriers and are unhappy about the changes, you are just 1 skill away from dreads since you have done all the pre-reqs.
If you want to switch from Amarr to Minmatar ships, you can! That's what makes Eve great, and keeps people paying year after year.


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